Does it really matter if it was Plagiarised or Sampled?

Reilly · 03-06-2011, 11:07 PM

Does it? I mean, does eht?!

Everyone seems to be considering that Coldplay sampled the original song, possibly because it's slightly less embarrassing, but the song (Ritmo de la Noche) that sampled the original sounds exactly like Coldplay's, the original doesn't, it's similar but I think not quite enough to say Coldplay had sampled it. As for Ritmo de la Noche, it's exactly the same with synth on it, can people hear properly?

And now I've found another thing that annoys me about Coldplay, they've thrown open a debate about what is 'credible' sampling, and to generalise, there are basically two typical points of view I've seen so far today:

Point A: Sampling is part of the progression of music and an artist has the freedom to improve on music from the past by stamping their own influence on it and making their original mark, it happens all the time and besides, because Coldplay have paid a tiny fraction of their earnings to credit the original this means its NOT plagiarism and for some reason this makes stealing music inexplicably fine.

Point B: FUCK THIS they stole music again how dare anyone make music that isn't theirs why not just give up and stop making us listen to recycled garbage! D:

But both opinions are pretty null-void, though the first is pretty reasonable I suppose if you like the song. There really isn't anything wrong with sampling a song, there's many examples of when an artist samples to make a really interesting twist and makes you forget about the original and look at the hook successfully from a different point of view, so I feel that if an artist hears a part of a song, and develops a new, original take on it, and they feel that it sounds SO good that it's actually worth going into that often grubby world of "sampling" (Stealing), and it turns out they were right to release it, then fine. In fact even if it turns out horribly, at least if they tried to make a twist on it, then that's something, you can't say that about Coldplay on this song- and I'll get to that in a minute.

There's nothing wrong with what "unoriginal hiphop tits" do, there's many examples of great samples (word?), Kanye's "Touch the Sky", Jay-Z "Hard Knock Life", and countless examples of horrible samples (I DARE you to go listen to Akon's "Lonely" I FRICKEN DARE YOU). So I don't think that just because it's a sample it should be instantly dismissed, so I instantly dismiss Point B above.

As for Point A, there is no original twist on it, there's a sample, and then there's Chris Martin horrifically trying to sing along to the exact same tune and fit words around it (Which is why the lyrics are so bad and flow terribly), they didn't just sample a part of a song they used that part to copy-paste vocals along with it and build half the song around it, until the build-up that goes absolutely nowhere. So not only could they not think of an original shitty dance beat (Which any retard from Basshunter to Cascada to a million other euro-dance artists do on a regular basis) they couldn't think of something to add to that, apart from a riff that could only sound more out of place if Jonny had set his guitar effect to "Nyan".

So for me, I can see what people mean by saying it's perfectly fine to sample, but where was the invention from that exactly? Chris just sings the exact same notes (Or in-between notes as it is Chris) as the sample, and it sounds truely frightening.

Therefore Point A doesn't apply either, and on top of that especially the point that for some reason because they credited the original and therefore not officially plagiarism that this is fine. It doesn't matter, Coldplay are worth millions, so it's not like moneys an issue (As it is with new artists who actually do plagiarise) and they have an audience of millions, they know that people will quickly pick up on a track they have stolen, so they or their legal team are not stupid enough to try and 'steal' music, whether it's plagiarism or not doesn't matter.

There's nothing added, they just took a sample and lazily slapped a vocal over it, with some horribly generic lyrics and buzz words about "The kids dance" and "Rebel song" to give this impression that Chris is thinking on another level- Chris is a fucking idiot.

RunForTheHills · 03-06-2011, 11:29 PM

.

Lore · 03-06-2011, 11:34 PM

Plagiarised, sampled, original or whatever, it's still a mediocre song, if they won't write original music at least they could put some effort in the lyrics.

Italian Plastic · 03-06-2011, 11:39 PM

i can't be bothered reading this

is it funny?

Famous Old Painter · 03-06-2011, 11:41 PM

Don't care.

2GreenEyes · 03-06-2011, 11:46 PM

Seriously, there's just no need in insulting the people that worked hard to make this song

Have you any idea how much it hurts to read someone claiming you suck at what you do and calling you an idiot, just by listening to a piece of music you made and put your heart and faith in and you took a risk with by not doing what people expected.

TimBou · 03-06-2011, 11:58 PM

Well I like the song a lot... enough said!

Lore · 04-06-2011, 12:01 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2GreenEyes;4810190
Seriously, there's just no need in insulting the people that worked hard to make this song

Have you any idea how much it hurts to read someone claiming you suck at what you do and calling you an idiot, just by listening to a piece of music you made and put your heart and faith in and you took a risk with by not doing what people expected.

I understand that but when you are an artist you need to get used to criticism because even if your art is perfect, not everyone will like it. (this is far from being perfect in my opinion though, I think I'd call Amsterdam perfect or maybe I Ran Away, but not this.)

Reilly · 04-06-2011, 12:02 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Italian Plastic;4810161
i can't be bothered reading this

is it funny?

No. But Eddilly, nonetheless.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2GreenEyes;4810190
Seriously, there's just no need in insulting the people that worked hard to make this song

Have you any idea how much it hurts to read someone claiming you suck at what you do and calling you an idiot, just by listening to a piece of music you made and put your heart and faith in and you took a risk with by not doing what people expected.

Like, seriously?!

I don't think there is any heart in this song, he took a sample, technologicalified it, and simply repeated the same tune as the sample, with his voice, because that's very easy to do, and very lazy. My point was that they didn't just take a sample and build a song around it, the sample is basically the song.

coldplay_is_louve. · 04-06-2011, 12:03 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lore;4810136
Plagiarised, sampled, original or whatever, it's still a mediocre song, if they won't write original music at least they could put some effort in the lyrics.

This.

And for me it does matter a bit, because I see it as them getting lazy. The lyrics being another part of my beliefs.

Debs Wild · 04-06-2011, 12:10 AM

I haven't read past first post admittedly but for your info guys:

Chris was inspired to write Every Teardrop Is A Waterfall after hearing some chords in a nightclub scene in Alejandro Gonzalez Inarritu's film Biutiful (2010).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biutiful

The chords in the film are part of a track that is based on "I Go To Rio" written by Peter Allen and Adrienne Anderson, released by Peter Allen in 1976.

YouTube it. It's way before the clip being banded around and... the song HAS credited the ORIGINAl composer (Allen, not the latter dance tune).

LoryABjerre · 04-06-2011, 12:19 AM

I listen and that is typically Ireland folklore with U2 - I'll Go Crazy If I Don't Go Crazy Tonight

now it's Scottish dances, folklore, wedding, classic with the original of sound of Coldplay with the new song

Reilly · 04-06-2011, 12:22 AM

Well the main point is that it doesn't really matter if it's been credited or not, I don't really get why people, when they hear it's been credited are like "OH! Phew its not plagiarism! So that makes it not suck!".

And I mentioned this earlier, it sounds a little bit like the original, but exactly like Ritmo de la Noche. I really think they heard the shitty embarrassing version first, found out it was sampled from something slightly more respected, and pretended their cultured.

Doesn't really matter though, just a hunch.

ceader'schild · 04-06-2011, 12:28 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lore;4810136
Plagiarised, sampled, original or whatever, it's still a mediocre song, if they won't write original music at least they could put some effort in the lyrics.

Well said Lore.

Debs Wild · 04-06-2011, 12:30 AM

Sorry but that's a) ridiculous. b) not true.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reilly;4810296
Well the main point is that it doesn't really matter if it's been credited or not, I don't really get why people, when they hear it's been credited are like "OH! Phew its not plagiarism! So that makes it not suck!".

And I mentioned this earlier, it sounds a little bit like the original, but exactly like Ritmo de la Noche. I really think they heard the shitty embarrassing version first, found out it was sampled from something slightly more respected, and pretended their cultured.

Doesn't really matter though, just a hunch.

03-06-2011, 11:07 PM	#1
Reilly District 9er Badazz!11111 Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 36,228 Chat posts: 570 Thanks given: 49 Thanked 374 Times in 224 Posts	Does it really matter if it was Plagiarised or Sampled? Does it? I mean, does eht?! Everyone seems to be considering that Coldplay sampled the original song, possibly because it's slightly less embarrassing, but the song (Ritmo de la Noche) that sampled the original sounds exactly like Coldplay's, the original doesn't, it's similar but I think not quite enough to say Coldplay had sampled it. As for Ritmo de la Noche, it's exactly the same with synth on it, can people hear properly? And now I've found another thing that annoys me about Coldplay, they've thrown open a debate about what is 'credible' sampling, and to generalise, there are basically two typical points of view I've seen so far today: Point A: Sampling is part of the progression of music and an artist has the freedom to improve on music from the past by stamping their own influence on it and making their original mark, it happens all the time and besides, because Coldplay have paid a tiny fraction of their earnings to credit the original this means its NOT plagiarism and for some reason this makes stealing music inexplicably fine. Point B: FUCK THIS they stole music again how dare anyone make music that isn't theirs why not just give up and stop making us listen to recycled garbage! D: But both opinions are pretty null-void, though the first is pretty reasonable I suppose if you like the song. There really isn't anything wrong with sampling a song, there's many examples of when an artist samples to make a really interesting twist and makes you forget about the original and look at the hook successfully from a different point of view, so I feel that if an artist hears a part of a song, and develops a new, original take on it, and they feel that it sounds SO good that it's actually worth going into that often grubby world of "sampling" (Stealing), and it turns out they were right to release it, then fine. In fact even if it turns out horribly, at least if they tried to make a twist on it, then that's something, you can't say that about Coldplay on this song- and I'll get to that in a minute. There's nothing wrong with what "unoriginal hiphop tits" do, there's many examples of great samples (word?), Kanye's "Touch the Sky", Jay-Z "Hard Knock Life", and countless examples of horrible samples (I DARE you to go listen to Akon's "Lonely" I FRICKEN DARE YOU). So I don't think that just because it's a sample it should be instantly dismissed, so I instantly dismiss Point B above. As for Point A, there is no original twist on it, there's a sample, and then there's Chris Martin horrifically trying to sing along to the exact same tune and fit words around it (Which is why the lyrics are so bad and flow terribly), they didn't just sample a part of a song they used that part to copy-paste vocals along with it and build half the song around it, until the build-up that goes absolutely nowhere. So not only could they not think of an original shitty dance beat (Which any retard from Basshunter to Cascada to a million other euro-dance artists do on a regular basis) they couldn't think of something to add to that, apart from a riff that could only sound more out of place if Jonny had set his guitar effect to "Nyan". So for me, I can see what people mean by saying it's perfectly fine to sample, but where was the invention from that exactly? Chris just sings the exact same notes (Or in-between notes as it is Chris) as the sample, and it sounds truely frightening. Therefore Point A doesn't apply either, and on top of that especially the point that for some reason because they credited the original and therefore not officially plagiarism that this is fine. It doesn't matter, Coldplay are worth millions, so it's not like moneys an issue (As it is with new artists who actually do plagiarise) and they have an audience of millions, they know that people will quickly pick up on a track they have stolen, so they or their legal team are not stupid enough to try and 'steal' music, whether it's plagiarism or not doesn't matter. There's nothing added, they just took a sample and lazily slapped a vocal over it, with some horribly generic lyrics and buzz words about "The kids dance" and "Rebel song" to give this impression that Chris is thinking on another level- Chris is a fucking idiot. __________________ This door... ...needs some WD-40. Quote: Originally Posted by Fix42YellowClocks I cannot argue my point of the seemingly conflicting idea of why I have the right to argue people shouldn't be allowed to tell Coldplay to stop expressing themselves without a fundamental argument to the freedoms we enjoy. Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?

03-06-2011, 11:29 PM	#2
RunForTheHills ^-^ Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 4,334 My Mood: Chat posts: 0 Thanks given: 3 Thanked 12 Times in 7 Posts	. __________________ SLLIHEHTROFNUR.

03-06-2011, 11:39 PM	#4
Italian Plastic 'til infinity Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 11,185 Country: Chat posts: 3 Thanks given: 365 Thanked 220 Times in 119 Posts	i can't be bothered reading this is it funny? __________________ .

03-06-2011, 11:41 PM	#5
Famous Old Painter KICKS LIKE A SLEEP TWICH Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 1,743 My Mood: Location: Yesteryear Gender: Country: Chat posts: 0 Thanks given: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Don't care. __________________

03-06-2011, 11:46 PM	#6
2GreenEyes ETIAW <3 Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 760 My Mood: Location: Leiden/Wageningen Gender: Country: Chat posts: 0 Thanks given: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Seriously, there's just no need in insulting the people that worked hard to make this song Have you any idea how much it hurts to read someone claiming you suck at what you do and calling you an idiot, just by listening to a piece of music you made and put your heart and faith in and you took a risk with by not doing what people expected. __________________ Nijmegen 10-09-09 Chris' ears 'Lips like sugar' 'Hot in Here' Chris Martin hosting on Zane Lowe's INMWT with the 'helping with your homework' song, 'I added it a bit' 'CREDO ELVEM ETIAM VIVERE' Christmas Lights in this Tumblr -Collecting Some Dust - Facebook

03-06-2011, 11:34 PM	#3
Lore Coldplayer Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 53,467 My Mood: Gender: Country: Chat posts: 0 Thanks given: 9 Thanked 33 Times in 29 Posts	Plagiarised, sampled, original or whatever, it's still a mediocre song, if they won't write original music at least they could put some effort in the lyrics.

03-06-2011, 11:58 PM	#7
TimBou Coldplayer Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 23 Chat posts: 0 Thanks given: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Well I like the song a lot... enough said!

04-06-2011, 12:01 AM	#8
Lore Coldplayer Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 53,467 My Mood: Gender: Country: Chat posts: 0 Thanks given: 9 Thanked 33 Times in 29 Posts	Quote: Originally Posted by 2GreenEyes;4810190 Seriously, there's just no need in insulting the people that worked hard to make this song Have you any idea how much it hurts to read someone claiming you suck at what you do and calling you an idiot, just by listening to a piece of music you made and put your heart and faith in and you took a risk with by not doing what people expected. I understand that but when you are an artist you need to get used to criticism because even if your art is perfect, not everyone will like it. (this is far from being perfect in my opinion though, I think I'd call Amsterdam perfect or maybe I Ran Away, but not this.)

04-06-2011, 12:02 AM	#9
Reilly District 9er Badazz!11111 Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 36,228 Chat posts: 570 Thanks given: 49 Thanked 374 Times in 224 Posts	Quote: Originally Posted by Italian Plastic;4810161 i can't be bothered reading this is it funny? No. But Eddilly, nonetheless. Quote: Originally Posted by 2GreenEyes;4810190 Seriously, there's just no need in insulting the people that worked hard to make this song Have you any idea how much it hurts to read someone claiming you suck at what you do and calling you an idiot, just by listening to a piece of music you made and put your heart and faith in and you took a risk with by not doing what people expected. Like, seriously?! I don't think there is any heart in this song, he took a sample, technologicalified it, and simply repeated the same tune as the sample, with his voice, because that's very easy to do, and very lazy. My point was that they didn't just take a sample and build a song around it, the sample is basically the song. __________________ This door... ...needs some WD-40. Quote: Originally Posted by Fix42YellowClocks I cannot argue my point of the seemingly conflicting idea of why I have the right to argue people shouldn't be allowed to tell Coldplay to stop expressing themselves without a fundamental argument to the freedoms we enjoy. Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?

04-06-2011, 12:03 AM	#10
coldplay_is_louve. I'm Christina. Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 21,893 Location: Philly! Gender: Country: Chat posts: 0 Thanks given: 2 Thanked 11 Times in 7 Posts	Quote: Originally Posted by Lore;4810136 Plagiarised, sampled, original or whatever, it's still a mediocre song, if they won't write original music at least they could put some effort in the lyrics. This. And for me it does matter a bit, because I see it as them getting lazy. The lyrics being another part of my beliefs. __________________

04-06-2011, 12:10 AM	#11
Debs Wild Coldplayer Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 171 Chat posts: 0 Thanks given: 0 Thanked 39 Times in 5 Posts	I haven't read past first post admittedly but for your info guys: Chris was inspired to write Every Teardrop Is A Waterfall after hearing some chords in a nightclub scene in Alejandro Gonzalez Inarritu's film Biutiful (2010). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biutiful The chords in the film are part of a track that is based on "I Go To Rio" written by Peter Allen and Adrienne Anderson, released by Peter Allen in 1976. YouTube it. It's way before the clip being banded around and... the song HAS credited the ORIGINAl composer (Allen, not the latter dance tune).

04-06-2011, 12:19 AM	#12
LoryABjerre Banned Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 6,937 My Mood: Gender: Country: Chat posts: 0 Thanks given: 92 Thanked 315 Times in 212 Posts	I listen and that is typically Ireland folklore with U2 - I'll Go Crazy If I Don't Go Crazy Tonight now it's Scottish dances, folklore, wedding, classic with the original of sound of Coldplay with the new song

04-06-2011, 12:22 AM	#13
Reilly District 9er Badazz!11111 Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 36,228 Chat posts: 570 Thanks given: 49 Thanked 374 Times in 224 Posts	Well the main point is that it doesn't really matter if it's been credited or not, I don't really get why people, when they hear it's been credited are like "OH! Phew its not plagiarism! So that makes it not suck!". And I mentioned this earlier, it sounds a little bit like the original, but exactly like Ritmo de la Noche. I really think they heard the shitty embarrassing version first, found out it was sampled from something slightly more respected, and pretended their cultured. Doesn't really matter though, just a hunch. __________________ This door... ...needs some WD-40. Quote: Originally Posted by Fix42YellowClocks I cannot argue my point of the seemingly conflicting idea of why I have the right to argue people shouldn't be allowed to tell Coldplay to stop expressing themselves without a fundamental argument to the freedoms we enjoy. Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?

04-06-2011, 12:28 AM	#14
ceader'schild Coldplayer Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,433 My Mood: Location: Beirut Gender: Country: Chat posts: 0 Thanks given: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Quote: Originally Posted by Lore;4810136 Plagiarised, sampled, original or whatever, it's still a mediocre song, if they won't write original music at least they could put some effort in the lyrics. Well said Lore.

04-06-2011, 12:30 AM	#15
Debs Wild Coldplayer Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 171 Chat posts: 0 Thanks given: 0 Thanked 39 Times in 5 Posts	Sorry but that's a) ridiculous. b) not true. Quote: Originally Posted by Reilly;4810296 Well the main point is that it doesn't really matter if it's been credited or not, I don't really get why people, when they hear it's been credited are like "OH! Phew its not plagiarism! So that makes it not suck!". And I mentioned this earlier, it sounds a little bit like the original, but exactly like Ritmo de la Noche. I really think they heard the shitty embarrassing version first, found out it was sampled from something slightly more respected, and pretended their cultured. Doesn't really matter though, just a hunch.