Is this what they mean by "Muslim tolerance'?

mc_squared · 16-09-2006, 10:45 PM

Is this what they mean by "Muslim tolerance'?
By PETER HITCHENS, The Mail on Sunday Last updated at 22:33pm on 16th September 2006

Listen to this: "Make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal rigorously with them. Hell shall be their home: an evil fate."
Or then again, this: "Believers, take neither the Jews nor the Christians for your friends."
Then there is the instruction to fight against those who are not of the true faith "until they pay tribute out of hand and are utterly subdued".
All are direct quotations from the Koran, which Muslims believe to be the absolute word of Allah, and which cannot be altered.
If you seek even more ferocious attacks on Christianity and Judaism, you will find them in the Hadith, Islam's other great book of scripture.
Week after week in those lands where Muslims rule and Christians are a minority, the message pours out from the mosques: "God did not have a son."
All the central doctrines of the Christian faith are emphatically denied. Things are said about Jews and Christians, sometimes comparing them to pigs and monkeys, which would attract the attention of the Thought Police if they were uttered here.
Only recently an Afghan was threatened with death - the prescribed punishment under Sharia law - for converting from Islam to Christianity.
Christians in Pakistan live in constant fear of attacks on their churches and their homes, usually following false allegations that someone has burned a Koran.
Coptic Christians in Egypt suffer a similar misery. Christian Arabs who can afford to have been emigrating by the thousands to avoid increasing persecution by their Muslim neighbours.
Hypocritical fury
For years Liberals in the West have spread the myth of "Muslim tolerance". It does not exist and never did. Where Islam rules, other faiths must cringe in humiliated subjection.
These are facts. Is it not astonishing that this militant, angry religion, whose name means not "Peace", but "Submission", whose whole existence is based on the denial and rejection of its rivals, dares to get into a self-righteous rage over an obscure quotation in a dull academic lecture by the head of the Roman Catholic Church?
In Islam it is still the year 1427. They have had no reformation. The more Islamic a state is, the more its women are shrouded and confined, the more its minorities are despised - and the more freedom of thought and speech are crushed.
And yet the deputy leader of Turkey's Islamist ruling party, Salih Kapusuz, attacks the Pope for having "a dark mentality that comes from the darkness of the Middle Ages".
If we bow to this manufactured, hypocritical fury, then we will already have lost one of the most important battles to face us.
While our silly leaders bleat and panic about terror threats, a far greater menace to our free societies comes from the growing power of Islam in our midst.
Much of that power results from the weak-kneed refusal of our own liberal elite to stand up for what is good about our Christian civilisation. Back the Pope.

psychosaiqa · 16-09-2006, 10:53 PM

...that's crap. that whole article is crap. you don't know what it is to be a Muslim and you don't know what it entails. The Quran is up for interpretion, it does not have to be taken literally, like making war on your neighbors, ok? Islam is not still in the year 1427- it might be according to the lunar calendar, which they abide by, as well as the Judeo-Christian calendar, but they have progressed. True, we're not allowed to translate the Quran so as not to leave out or misinterpret words that are lost in translation, but Muslims in general, as a whole, have progressed with time. Women are free to divorce, wear what they want- head coverings are OPTIONAL- it's just that some Muslims countries enforce laws for them to be required, which IMO is not politically correct. The 3 Abrahamic religions are VERY MUCH alike, the one main thing that seperates Christianity from Judaism and Islam is that they accept Jesus as the son of God, and therefore their savior.

Islam is not a "militant, angry religion"-- it is only those radicals who skew the true religion who are angry and militant.

Why has Islam suddenly become the scapegoat for everything?

Maldini · 17-09-2006, 07:33 AM

I'm speechless

I shocked when I read this article.Is Peter Hitchens British Journalist? I ask because his knowledege as a pupil in Kindergarten

coldplaying · 17-09-2006, 12:38 PM

:

Quote:
...The more Islamic a state is, the more its women are shrouded and confined, the more its minorities are despised - and the more freedom of thought and speech are crushed...

yes Islam is evil and it causes above results..ok? and theres nothing called muslim tolerance..it is human tolerance and muslims are terrorists..also Quran teaches us how to fight against nonbelievers..yes yes its the main idea behind the Book..

:

Quote:
...And yet the deputy leader of Turkey's Islamist ruling party, Salih Kapusuz, attacks the Pope for having "a dark mentality that comes from the darkness of the Middle Ages"...

and i agree with that guy..

ugadawg5 · 17-09-2006, 05:01 PM

Muslims obviously have the thinnest skin of any religion...any comment they don't care for and they riot and protest until they get an apology. bunch of little girls...

coldplaying · 17-09-2006, 09:52 PM

^^you know not only muslim world but also many western countries and other religions' leaders wait for the apology and find that statement wrong...
bunch of little girls?? better than irresponsible and indifferent "big boys"..

Bijeli_Miš · 17-09-2006, 10:36 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by psychosaiqa

Why has Islam suddenly become the scapegoat for everything?

Err, because communism is no longer relevant in today's society.
Btw, isn't their response rather ironic, violently respondig to violence allegations.

Grace · 17-09-2006, 11:14 PM

fuck that crap.
i just typed a long reply and my damn IE shut down...

however.
i'm of the opinion that the muslims cleraly overreacted.
saw that woman on tv today claiming that she's gonna shoot the pope. +_+
what the fuck is wrong with them guys?
okay, pope's statement might have sounded like an insult, but there's no excuse for their reaction!
burning dolls who are meant to picture the pope and starting riots is simpley stupid.
this world is not civilized.

MrLick · 17-09-2006, 11:21 PM

Islam needs to get through it's "middle ages" period. Christianity went through the same thing and now they are, just a few hundred years later. Once people realize alot of their "religious leaders" arent even Muslim i think the Muslim world will get better. I dont believe in Islam in any way but i do know its not violent.

Bijeli_Miš · 17-09-2006, 11:22 PM

Atleast they could have tried to attack catholic not protestant churches, I read that they tried to destroy anabaptist chruch or something.Noobish behaviour.
P.s. Use firefox like all the decent folk.

mc_squared · 18-09-2006, 06:16 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bijeli_Miš
Atleast they could have tried to attack catholic not protestant churches, I read that they tried to destroy anabaptist chruch or something.Noobish behaviour.
P.s. Use firefox like all the decent folk.

I agree. IE sucks and Firefox rocks!!

huntjd · 18-09-2006, 07:57 AM

mmm hmmm firefox is definetly the way to go! viva le firefox revolution!

mc_squared · 18-09-2006, 08:08 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by huntjd
mmm hmmm firefox is definetly the way to go! viva le firefox revolution!

And that goes for Thunderbird instead of Outlook, too!

MrLick · 18-09-2006, 08:46 AM

Nun Murdered after Muslims Condemn Pope’s Remarks
By James Joyner

A nun who had spent most of her life helping sick people was murdered today by Muslims retalliating for Pope Benedict’s remarks about the violent nature of Islam.

Murdered Nun he body of late nun Leonella (only first name available) in the hospital, Sunday, Sept 17, 2006. An Italian nun was shot dead at a mothers' and children's hospital by unidentified Somali gunmen, doctors said Sunday. Hospital doctor Mohamed Yusuf said the nun was shot in the back. The nun's bodyguard was also killed, doctors told The Associated Press. The nun, who has not been identified, was shot at the entrance to the hospital in northern Mogadishu by two gunmen armed with pistols, Dr. Yusuf said . (AP Photo/Mohamed Sheikh Nor) An elderly Italian nun who devoted her life to helping the sick in Africa was shot dead by two gunmen at a hospital Sunday in an attack possibly linked to worldwide Muslim anger toward Pope Benedict XVI. Sister Leonella, 65, was shot in the back four times by pistol-wielding attackers as she left the Austrian-run S.O.S. hospital at lunch time after finishing nursing school for trainee medics. Her bodyguard was also slain.
http://www.netscape.com/viewstory/20...%2F&frame=true

There was no claim of responsibility for the attack, which came just hours after a leading Somali cleric condemned the pope’s remarks last week on Islam and violence.

So much for there being no casualties in this wave of Muslim violence. Sadly, I suspect she will not be the last.

EL MASRY · 18-09-2006, 12:27 PM

you and mrcool seaching on internet for everything anti muslims if this fake or not why?
every thread to you or mrcool attacking on islam why?

16-09-2006, 10:45 PM	#1
mc_squared Banned Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 67,519 My Mood: Location: Wherever life takes me Gender: Country: Chat posts: 0 Thanks given: 0 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts	Is this what they mean by "Muslim tolerance'? Is this what they mean by "Muslim tolerance'? By PETER HITCHENS, The Mail on Sunday Last updated at 22:33pm on 16th September 2006 Listen to this: "Make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal rigorously with them. Hell shall be their home: an evil fate." Or then again, this: "Believers, take neither the Jews nor the Christians for your friends." Then there is the instruction to fight against those who are not of the true faith "until they pay tribute out of hand and are utterly subdued". All are direct quotations from the Koran, which Muslims believe to be the absolute word of Allah, and which cannot be altered. If you seek even more ferocious attacks on Christianity and Judaism, you will find them in the Hadith, Islam's other great book of scripture. Week after week in those lands where Muslims rule and Christians are a minority, the message pours out from the mosques: "God did not have a son." All the central doctrines of the Christian faith are emphatically denied. Things are said about Jews and Christians, sometimes comparing them to pigs and monkeys, which would attract the attention of the Thought Police if they were uttered here. Only recently an Afghan was threatened with death - the prescribed punishment under Sharia law - for converting from Islam to Christianity. Christians in Pakistan live in constant fear of attacks on their churches and their homes, usually following false allegations that someone has burned a Koran. Coptic Christians in Egypt suffer a similar misery. Christian Arabs who can afford to have been emigrating by the thousands to avoid increasing persecution by their Muslim neighbours. Hypocritical fury For years Liberals in the West have spread the myth of "Muslim tolerance". It does not exist and never did. Where Islam rules, other faiths must cringe in humiliated subjection. These are facts. Is it not astonishing that this militant, angry religion, whose name means not "Peace", but "Submission", whose whole existence is based on the denial and rejection of its rivals, dares to get into a self-righteous rage over an obscure quotation in a dull academic lecture by the head of the Roman Catholic Church? In Islam it is still the year 1427. They have had no reformation. The more Islamic a state is, the more its women are shrouded and confined, the more its minorities are despised - and the more freedom of thought and speech are crushed. And yet the deputy leader of Turkey's Islamist ruling party, Salih Kapusuz, attacks the Pope for having "a dark mentality that comes from the darkness of the Middle Ages". If we bow to this manufactured, hypocritical fury, then we will already have lost one of the most important battles to face us. While our silly leaders bleat and panic about terror threats, a far greater menace to our free societies comes from the growing power of Islam in our midst. Much of that power results from the weak-kneed refusal of our own liberal elite to stand up for what is good about our Christian civilisation. Back the Pope. __________________ LIFE ISN'T MEANT TO BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY Be yourself, no matter what anyone else thinks. Work to live - don't live to work...................... Age is purely a state of mind! Don't waste your time on jealousy. Success is a journey, NOT a destination. Life is a marathon, NOT a sprint! http://www.generationterrorists.com/...sunscreen.html

16-09-2006, 10:53 PM	#2
psychosaiqa hi! Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 2,130 Location: somewhere WAY over the rainbow Gender: Country: Chat posts: 0 Thanks given: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	...that's crap. that whole article is crap. you don't know what it is to be a Muslim and you don't know what it entails. The Quran is up for interpretion, it does not have to be taken literally, like making war on your neighbors, ok? Islam is not still in the year 1427- it might be according to the lunar calendar, which they abide by, as well as the Judeo-Christian calendar, but they have progressed. True, we're not allowed to translate the Quran so as not to leave out or misinterpret words that are lost in translation, but Muslims in general, as a whole, have progressed with time. Women are free to divorce, wear what they want- head coverings are OPTIONAL- it's just that some Muslims countries enforce laws for them to be required, which IMO is not politically correct. The 3 Abrahamic religions are VERY MUCH alike, the one main thing that seperates Christianity from Judaism and Islam is that they accept Jesus as the son of God, and therefore their savior. Islam is not a "militant, angry religion"-- it is only those radicals who skew the true religion who are angry and militant. Why has Islam suddenly become the scapegoat for everything? __________________ http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f3...osaiqa/hou.jpg

17-09-2006, 07:33 AM	#3
Maldini Coldplayer Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 1,603 My Mood: Location: Giza Gender: Country: Chat posts: 0 Thanks given: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I'm speechless I shocked when I read this article.Is Peter Hitchens British Journalist? I ask because his knowledege as a pupil in Kindergarten __________________ "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing" {Edmund Burke} ''Give me control of a nation's money supply, and I care not who makes its laws.''{Mayer Amschel Rothschild } ''We shall have World Government, whether or not we like it. The only question is whether World Government will be achieved by conquest or consent.'' {Paul Warburg} ''Zionism is a form of racism and racial discrimination''{Resolution 3379 by UN General Assembly } revoked by Resolution 46/86. http://www.mchenrycountyblog.com/upl...ker-755889.jpg Yes For Prop 8

17-09-2006, 12:38 PM	#4
coldplaying Nicholai Hel Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 2,678 Gender: Country: Chat posts: 0 Thanks given: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	: Quote: ...The more Islamic a state is, the more its women are shrouded and confined, the more its minorities are despised - and the more freedom of thought and speech are crushed... yes Islam is evil and it causes above results..ok? and theres nothing called muslim tolerance..it is human tolerance and muslims are terrorists..also Quran teaches us how to fight against nonbelievers..yes yes its the main idea behind the Book.. : Quote: ...And yet the deputy leader of Turkey's Islamist ruling party, Salih Kapusuz, attacks the Pope for having "a dark mentality that comes from the darkness of the Middle Ages"... and i agree with that guy.. __________________ So I'm gonna buy a gun and start a war If you can tell me something worth fighting for I'm gonna buy this place is what I said Blame it upon a rush of blood to the head... "... shibumi has to do with great refinement underlying commonplace appearances. It is a statement so correct that it does not have to be bold, so poignant it does not have to be pretty, so true it does not have to be real. Shibumi is understanding, rather than knowledge. Eloquent silence. In demeanor, it is modesty without pudency. In art, where the spirit of shibumi takes the form of sabi, it is elegant simplicity, articulate brevity. In philosophy, where shibumi emerges as wabi, it is spiritual tranquility that is not passive; it is being without the angst of becoming. And in the personality of a man, it is ... how does one say it? Authority without domination? Something like that. "One does not achieve it, one ... discovers it. Meaning, rather, that one must pass through knowledge and arrive at simplicity..."

17-09-2006, 05:01 PM	#5
ugadawg5 http://www.fairtax.org/ Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 773 Location: Atlanta, Georgia Gender: Country: Chat posts: 0 Thanks given: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Muslims obviously have the thinnest skin of any religion...any comment they don't care for and they riot and protest until they get an apology. bunch of little girls... __________________ www.fairtax.org http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FairTax

17-09-2006, 09:52 PM	#6
coldplaying Nicholai Hel Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 2,678 Gender: Country: Chat posts: 0 Thanks given: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	^^you know not only muslim world but also many western countries and other religions' leaders wait for the apology and find that statement wrong... bunch of little girls?? better than irresponsible and indifferent "big boys".. __________________ So I'm gonna buy a gun and start a war If you can tell me something worth fighting for I'm gonna buy this place is what I said Blame it upon a rush of blood to the head... "... shibumi has to do with great refinement underlying commonplace appearances. It is a statement so correct that it does not have to be bold, so poignant it does not have to be pretty, so true it does not have to be real. Shibumi is understanding, rather than knowledge. Eloquent silence. In demeanor, it is modesty without pudency. In art, where the spirit of shibumi takes the form of sabi, it is elegant simplicity, articulate brevity. In philosophy, where shibumi emerges as wabi, it is spiritual tranquility that is not passive; it is being without the angst of becoming. And in the personality of a man, it is ... how does one say it? Authority without domination? Something like that. "One does not achieve it, one ... discovers it. Meaning, rather, that one must pass through knowledge and arrive at simplicity..."

17-09-2006, 10:36 PM	#7
Bijeli_Miš A rather unrealistic guy Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 5,320 Location: In a place where you don't Gender: Country: Chat posts: 0 Thanks given: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Quote: Originally Posted by psychosaiqa Why has Islam suddenly become the scapegoat for everything? Err, because communism is no longer relevant in today's society. Btw, isn't their response rather ironic, violently respondig to violence allegations. __________________ http://img475.imageshack.us/img475/6244/ffavzo8.gif

17-09-2006, 11:14 PM	#8
Grace yellow bird. Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 12,670 My Mood: Location: Frankfurt am Main Gender: Country: Chat posts: 0 Thanks given: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	fuck that crap. i just typed a long reply and my damn IE shut down... however. i'm of the opinion that the muslims cleraly overreacted. saw that woman on tv today claiming that she's gonna shoot the pope. +_+ what the fuck is wrong with them guys? okay, pope's statement might have sounded like an insult, but there's no excuse for their reaction! burning dolls who are meant to picture the pope and starting riots is simpley stupid. this world is not civilized. __________________ http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/861...jtzdd4jf5t.jpg The saddest kind of sad is the sad that tries not to be sad. You know, when Sad tries to bite its lip and not cry and smile and go, “No, I’m happy for you”? That’s when it’s really sad. http://couture-du-jour.blogspot.com לְחַיִּים

17-09-2006, 11:21 PM	#9
MrLick No. Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 25,996 My Mood: Location: Spokane. Gender: Country: Chat posts: 0 Thanks given: 55 Thanked 35 Times in 18 Posts	Islam needs to get through it's "middle ages" period. Christianity went through the same thing and now they are, just a few hundred years later. Once people realize alot of their "religious leaders" arent even Muslim i think the Muslim world will get better. I dont believe in Islam in any way but i do know its not violent. __________________ Even after all this time, the Sun never says to the Earth: "You owe me". Look at what happens with a love like that. It lights the whole sky.

17-09-2006, 11:22 PM	#10
Bijeli_Miš A rather unrealistic guy Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 5,320 Location: In a place where you don't Gender: Country: Chat posts: 0 Thanks given: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Atleast they could have tried to attack catholic not protestant churches, I read that they tried to destroy anabaptist chruch or something.Noobish behaviour. P.s. Use firefox like all the decent folk. __________________ http://img475.imageshack.us/img475/6244/ffavzo8.gif

18-09-2006, 06:16 AM	#11
mc_squared Banned Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 67,519 My Mood: Location: Wherever life takes me Gender: Country: Chat posts: 0 Thanks given: 0 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts	Quote: Originally Posted by Bijeli_Miš Atleast they could have tried to attack catholic not protestant churches, I read that they tried to destroy anabaptist chruch or something.Noobish behaviour. P.s. Use firefox like all the decent folk. I agree. IE sucks and Firefox rocks!! __________________ LIFE ISN'T MEANT TO BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY Be yourself, no matter what anyone else thinks. Work to live - don't live to work...................... Age is purely a state of mind! Don't waste your time on jealousy. Success is a journey, NOT a destination. Life is a marathon, NOT a sprint! http://www.generationterrorists.com/...sunscreen.html

18-09-2006, 07:57 AM	#12
huntjd i'm josh :) Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 3,132 Location: Melbourne Gender: Country: Chat posts: 0 Thanks given: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	mmm hmmm firefox is definetly the way to go! viva le firefox revolution! __________________ live bands. coldplay - U2 - muse - kasabian - the killers - bloc party - the horrors - arctic monkeys - operator please - evermore - red hot chilli peppers - mercy arms - sufjan stevens - explosions in the sky - eluvium - iron and wine upcoming live. sigur ros. death cab for cutie. (bliss on earth) http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m...dropshadow.jpg last.fm : myspace : flickr : blog

18-09-2006, 08:08 AM	#13
mc_squared Banned Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 67,519 My Mood: Location: Wherever life takes me Gender: Country: Chat posts: 0 Thanks given: 0 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts	Quote: Originally Posted by huntjd mmm hmmm firefox is definetly the way to go! viva le firefox revolution! And that goes for Thunderbird instead of Outlook, too! __________________ LIFE ISN'T MEANT TO BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY Be yourself, no matter what anyone else thinks. Work to live - don't live to work...................... Age is purely a state of mind! Don't waste your time on jealousy. Success is a journey, NOT a destination. Life is a marathon, NOT a sprint! http://www.generationterrorists.com/...sunscreen.html

18-09-2006, 08:46 AM	#14
MrLick No. Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 25,996 My Mood: Location: Spokane. Gender: Country: Chat posts: 0 Thanks given: 55 Thanked 35 Times in 18 Posts	Nun Murdered after Muslims Condemn Pope’s Remarks By James Joyner A nun who had spent most of her life helping sick people was murdered today by Muslims retalliating for Pope Benedict’s remarks about the violent nature of Islam. Murdered Nun he body of late nun Leonella (only first name available) in the hospital, Sunday, Sept 17, 2006. An Italian nun was shot dead at a mothers' and children's hospital by unidentified Somali gunmen, doctors said Sunday. Hospital doctor Mohamed Yusuf said the nun was shot in the back. The nun's bodyguard was also killed, doctors told The Associated Press. The nun, who has not been identified, was shot at the entrance to the hospital in northern Mogadishu by two gunmen armed with pistols, Dr. Yusuf said . (AP Photo/Mohamed Sheikh Nor) An elderly Italian nun who devoted her life to helping the sick in Africa was shot dead by two gunmen at a hospital Sunday in an attack possibly linked to worldwide Muslim anger toward Pope Benedict XVI. Sister Leonella, 65, was shot in the back four times by pistol-wielding attackers as she left the Austrian-run S.O.S. hospital at lunch time after finishing nursing school for trainee medics. Her bodyguard was also slain. http://www.netscape.com/viewstory/20...%2F&frame=true There was no claim of responsibility for the attack, which came just hours after a leading Somali cleric condemned the pope’s remarks last week on Islam and violence. So much for there being no casualties in this wave of Muslim violence. Sadly, I suspect she will not be the last. __________________ Even after all this time, the Sun never says to the Earth: "You owe me". Look at what happens with a love like that. It lights the whole sky.

18-09-2006, 12:27 PM	#15
EL MASRY Coldplayer Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 386 My Mood: Location: new brunswick Gender: Country: Chat posts: 0 Thanks given: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	you and mrcool seaching on internet for everything anti muslims if this fake or not why? every thread to you or mrcool attacking on islam why? __________________ "1st week in Canada"