The people have spoken...

berrywoman · 09-06-2006, 04:06 PM

Poll: Majority support troops, not Iraq war
Many in U.S. say atrocities against civilians isolated, but invasion a mistake
The Associated Press

Updated: 10:07 a.m. ET June 9, 2006
WASHINGTON - The latest Associated Press-Ipsos poll found that many Americans perceive the alleged atrocities against Iraqi civilians by U.S. forces as isolated incidents while saying the U.S.-led invasion was a mistake, an unusual disconnect that sets this conflict apart from Vietnam.

The survey of 1,003 adults was completed Wednesday, shortly before the announcement that U.S. airstrikes had killed Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, the al-Qaida leader in Iraq, and the Iraqi parliament’s approval of candidates for ministers in charge of the army and police.

It remains to be seen how those events could affect opinion, especially among a public paying close attention to war dispatches.

Some 76 percent of those questioned said they were following reports about allegations that U.S. troops killed unarmed Iraqi civilians.

The military is investigating reports that a small number of Marines murdered 24 Iraqi civilians — including unarmed women and children — in the town of Haditha on Nov. 19. It also is conducting a probe of an incident in Hamdaniya following allegations that Marines pulled an unarmed Iraqi man from his home on April 26 and shot him to death without provocation.

Regardless of whether the allegations turn out to be true, 63 percent of those surveyed said they thought the killings of civilians were isolated incidents. That view was especially true among Americans over 35, whites and those living in the South, where the military has a strong presence.

“I think they’re doing everything possible to avoid such things,” said Christine Berchelmann, a retired nurse and Republican-leaning independent from San Antonio. “The people they are seeking out, they are in dwellings right in the middle of all these civilians. There are always going to be casualties.”

Sixty-one percent in the survey said the military is doing all it can to avoid killing Iraqi civilians.

'Biggest mistake was going into Iraq'
While the AP poll found that most Americans are willing to give U.S. troops the benefit of the doubt, their misgivings about the war and the prospect of Iraq establishing a stable, democratic government are growing.

Fifty-nine percent said the United States made a mistake in going to war, a new high and a significant jump from the 34 percent in December 2004.

“The biggest mistake was going into Iraq,” said David Smith, 38, a salesman from Springfield, Mo., and Democrat who leans independent. “If hindsight was 20-20, they should have thought about the repercussions.”

Despite President Bush’s pronouncements about Iraq setting up a viable government, only 44 percent of those polled said it was likely they would see a stable government in Baghdad. It was a new low in the survey.

“I think this is the first time in recorded history where the American people wholeheartedly support the troops and support for the mission is waning,” said Rep. Ike Skelton of Missouri, the top Democrat on the House Armed Services Committee.

The 15-term lawmaker cited the greater involvement of the National Guard and Reserves in the war. Some 25,000 members of the Guard and Reserve are in Iraq among the 132,000 U.S. troops.

“People have a neighbor or a cousin,” Skelton said.

Different from Vietnam
During Vietnam, growing opposition to the war paralleled disenchantment with American forces, many of whom had been drafted to serve. The conflict dragged on more than a decade, more than 50,000 Americans were killed and the U.S. departed Saigon in April 1975 as the communists prevailed.

Capturing the public consciousness during Vietnam was the My Lai massacre, in which U.S. soldiers killed hundreds of innocent civilians in 1968.

In Iraq, the military has relied on an all-volunteer force of trained professionals.

Kathleen Hall Jamieson, director of the Annenberg Public Policy Center at the University of Pennsylvania, said it is possible to oppose the war but “nonetheless see the military as divorced from that. The military is our sons and daughters and, of course, we wouldn’t systematically engage in something that defiles American values.”

Rep. John Kline, R-Minn., said he was not surprised “that the American people believe in the fundamental goodness of the American soldiers.” Kline, a member of the Armed Services Committee, described the current troops as the “best we’ve ever had.”

The survey also found that the war continues to take a toll on the public’s view of Bush. Approval of the president was at 35 percent, essentially unchanged from his rating of 33 percent last month based on the poll’s margin of error of 3 percentage points.

His handling of Iraq and foreign policy and the fight against terrorism hit new lows: Just 33 percent approved of his actions on Iraq and 39 percent on the commander in chief’s fight against terrorism.

People had an even lower opinion of the Republican-controlled Congress. Only 24 percent approved of the way it’s doing its job, essentially unchanged from last month but still a new low.
Fifty-two percent want Democrats to capture control of Congress in November, about the same as last month’s poll.
© 2006 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
URL: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13216921/

MrLick · 15-06-2006, 08:11 PM

all this dislike of republicans and yet democrats are still hated. they have a chance to take back washington but luckily for me they are screwing themselves over! cant say im mad.

GazeboflossUK · 15-06-2006, 08:35 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrcool011
all this dislike of republicans and yet democrats are still hated. they have a chance to take back washington but luckily for me they are screwing themselves over! cant say im mad.

Republicans/Democrats are one and the same...both a cheek on the same arse........

Unfortunately you have a "false opposition" going on in the US now. Major republican supporters like Ruppert Murdock are supporting Hillary Clinton's campaigns and the Bush family very good friends with the Clintons now. G.W actually commented on Bill as having"...a great compassion for people in need... a man of enthusiasm and warmth".
This from a man who wasn't shy in venting his distaste for the Clinton in the run up to the first Bush term.
'Barbara Bush refers to him as "her son" and G.W also stated "The William J. Clinton Presidential Library is a gift to the future by a man who always believed in the future and today we thank him for loving and serving America."

Is this really a picture of two distinct and opposed political ideologies pitted against one another?
There has not been an occupant in the White House outside of the Bush or Clinton families since 1988. This will seemingly continue through to 2012 and beyond.

Anyway, back to the topic.....It's crazy how men who are quite obviously doing a terrible, terrible job can continue to lead the most 'powerful' country in the world.
Just wait until Bush becomes a "war president" again...then watch republicans rally to support their "Fuhrer" as they get what they want.

berrywoman · 15-06-2006, 08:46 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrcool011
all this dislike of republicans and yet democrats are still hated. they have a chance to take back washington but luckily for me they are screwing themselves over! cant say im mad.

I never said one was better than the other.. they're politicians period lol but for those who give two rats asses... there's the 'pudding' so to speak.

MrLick · 15-06-2006, 09:46 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by berrywoman
I never said one was better than the other.. they're politicians period lol but for those who give two rats asses... there's the 'pudding' so to speak.

you dont have to say. its quite clear you are a democrat and favor them and probably vote for them. so by your actions and saying you are hinting democrasts are better.

GazeboflossUK · 15-06-2006, 09:56 PM

And your a prime, shining example of a modern day Republican.....

Well done....

Although that's a bit harsh.....I know alot of people are just brought up that way.

MrLick · 15-06-2006, 09:58 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by GazeboflossUK
And your a prime, shining example of a modern day Republican.....

Well done....

Although that's a bit harsh.....I know alot of people are just brought up that way.

Thank you. im proud to be one.

GazeboflossUK · 15-06-2006, 10:08 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrcool011
Thank you. im proud to be one.

You can tell George and co. that when you see him....in Hell.

(bare in mind I am 100% NONE religious, so Hell is a figure of speech - meaning IF there was a HELL you both would be able to chat to eachother there)

I am kinda kidding here though.....you not evil like G.W....just mis-guided.

MrLick · 15-06-2006, 10:52 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by GazeboflossUK
You can tell George and co. that when you see him....in Hell.

(bare in mind I am 100% NONE religious, so Hell is a figure of speech - meaning IF there was a HELL you both would be able to chat to eachother there)

I am kinda kidding here though.....you not evil like G.W....just mis-guided.

Why would he be in hell? GW is far from evil. no more then you or me.

GazeboflossUK · 16-06-2006, 12:10 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrcool011
Why would he be in hell? GW is far from evil. no more then you or me.

Hearing someone describe him as "far from evil" actually makes me laugh out loud.
He really is a bad man. Obviously you can't (I mean won't) look into everything he has done and plans to do objectively......
I don't base my opinions on wether he is so called 'right', 'left' or any of that crap.

alyssa · 16-06-2006, 12:25 AM

"People had an even lower opinion of the Republican-controlled Congress. Only 24 percent approved of the way it’s doing its job, essentially unchanged from last month but still a new low."

Ow. That's harsh.

Not surprising though.

And I'm not a republican or democrat. I'm just displeased with how this country is being lead right now.

berrywoman · 16-06-2006, 01:25 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrcool011
you dont have to say. its quite clear you are a democrat and favor them and probably vote for them. so by your actions and saying you are hinting democrasts are better.

I'm not so blinded and jaded as you my friend

I'd vote Guliani in a minute for Pres. and he's a die hard Republican... lol I also voted Republican in my first election... besides that, I don't vote for parties.. I vote for the 'right candidate'.... and for all you know... I could be a registed Independant....

at least I have a right to criticize... YOU haven't even voted. lol

09-06-2006, 04:06 PM	#1
berrywoman Guy-a-licious Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 27,692 My Mood: Location: New York Cares Gender: Country: Chat posts: 0 Thanks given: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	The people have spoken... Poll: Majority support troops, not Iraq war Many in U.S. say atrocities against civilians isolated, but invasion a mistake The Associated Press Updated: 10:07 a.m. ET June 9, 2006 WASHINGTON - The latest Associated Press-Ipsos poll found that many Americans perceive the alleged atrocities against Iraqi civilians by U.S. forces as isolated incidents while saying the U.S.-led invasion was a mistake, an unusual disconnect that sets this conflict apart from Vietnam. The survey of 1,003 adults was completed Wednesday, shortly before the announcement that U.S. airstrikes had killed Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, the al-Qaida leader in Iraq, and the Iraqi parliament’s approval of candidates for ministers in charge of the army and police. It remains to be seen how those events could affect opinion, especially among a public paying close attention to war dispatches. Some 76 percent of those questioned said they were following reports about allegations that U.S. troops killed unarmed Iraqi civilians. The military is investigating reports that a small number of Marines murdered 24 Iraqi civilians — including unarmed women and children — in the town of Haditha on Nov. 19. It also is conducting a probe of an incident in Hamdaniya following allegations that Marines pulled an unarmed Iraqi man from his home on April 26 and shot him to death without provocation. Regardless of whether the allegations turn out to be true, 63 percent of those surveyed said they thought the killings of civilians were isolated incidents. That view was especially true among Americans over 35, whites and those living in the South, where the military has a strong presence. “I think they’re doing everything possible to avoid such things,” said Christine Berchelmann, a retired nurse and Republican-leaning independent from San Antonio. “The people they are seeking out, they are in dwellings right in the middle of all these civilians. There are always going to be casualties.” Sixty-one percent in the survey said the military is doing all it can to avoid killing Iraqi civilians. 'Biggest mistake was going into Iraq' While the AP poll found that most Americans are willing to give U.S. troops the benefit of the doubt, their misgivings about the war and the prospect of Iraq establishing a stable, democratic government are growing. Fifty-nine percent said the United States made a mistake in going to war, a new high and a significant jump from the 34 percent in December 2004. “The biggest mistake was going into Iraq,” said David Smith, 38, a salesman from Springfield, Mo., and Democrat who leans independent. “If hindsight was 20-20, they should have thought about the repercussions.” Despite President Bush’s pronouncements about Iraq setting up a viable government, only 44 percent of those polled said it was likely they would see a stable government in Baghdad. It was a new low in the survey. “I think this is the first time in recorded history where the American people wholeheartedly support the troops and support for the mission is waning,” said Rep. Ike Skelton of Missouri, the top Democrat on the House Armed Services Committee. The 15-term lawmaker cited the greater involvement of the National Guard and Reserves in the war. Some 25,000 members of the Guard and Reserve are in Iraq among the 132,000 U.S. troops. “People have a neighbor or a cousin,” Skelton said. Different from Vietnam During Vietnam, growing opposition to the war paralleled disenchantment with American forces, many of whom had been drafted to serve. The conflict dragged on more than a decade, more than 50,000 Americans were killed and the U.S. departed Saigon in April 1975 as the communists prevailed. Capturing the public consciousness during Vietnam was the My Lai massacre, in which U.S. soldiers killed hundreds of innocent civilians in 1968. In Iraq, the military has relied on an all-volunteer force of trained professionals. Kathleen Hall Jamieson, director of the Annenberg Public Policy Center at the University of Pennsylvania, said it is possible to oppose the war but “nonetheless see the military as divorced from that. The military is our sons and daughters and, of course, we wouldn’t systematically engage in something that defiles American values.” Rep. John Kline, R-Minn., said he was not surprised “that the American people believe in the fundamental goodness of the American soldiers.” Kline, a member of the Armed Services Committee, described the current troops as the “best we’ve ever had.” The survey also found that the war continues to take a toll on the public’s view of Bush. Approval of the president was at 35 percent, essentially unchanged from his rating of 33 percent last month based on the poll’s margin of error of 3 percentage points. His handling of Iraq and foreign policy and the fight against terrorism hit new lows: Just 33 percent approved of his actions on Iraq and 39 percent on the commander in chief’s fight against terrorism. People had an even lower opinion of the Republican-controlled Congress. Only 24 percent approved of the way it’s doing its job, essentially unchanged from last month but still a new low. Fifty-two percent want Democrats to capture control of Congress in November, about the same as last month’s poll. © 2006 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed. URL: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13216921/ __________________ http://www.last.fm/user/berrychen/ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ http://nyc-specialist.tumblr.com/

15-06-2006, 08:11 PM	#2
MrLick Lemon World Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 26,016 My Mood: Location: Spokane. Gender: Country: Chat posts: 0 Thanks given: 61 Thanked 51 Times in 19 Posts	all this dislike of republicans and yet democrats are still hated. they have a chance to take back washington but luckily for me they are screwing themselves over! cant say im mad. __________________ Even after all this time, the Sun never says to the Earth: "You owe me". Look at what happens with a love like that. It lights the whole sky.

15-06-2006, 08:35 PM	#3
GazeboflossUK Like Sleaze In The Park Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 3,621 Location: Newcastle Upon Tyne Gender: Country: Chat posts: 0 Thanks given: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Quote: Originally Posted by mrcool011 all this dislike of republicans and yet democrats are still hated. they have a chance to take back washington but luckily for me they are screwing themselves over! cant say im mad. Republicans/Democrats are one and the same...both a cheek on the same arse........ Unfortunately you have a "false opposition" going on in the US now. Major republican supporters like Ruppert Murdock are supporting Hillary Clinton's campaigns and the Bush family very good friends with the Clintons now. G.W actually commented on Bill as having"...a great compassion for people in need... a man of enthusiasm and warmth". This from a man who wasn't shy in venting his distaste for the Clinton in the run up to the first Bush term. 'Barbara Bush refers to him as "her son" and G.W also stated "The William J. Clinton Presidential Library is a gift to the future by a man who always believed in the future and today we thank him for loving and serving America." Is this really a picture of two distinct and opposed political ideologies pitted against one another? There has not been an occupant in the White House outside of the Bush or Clinton families since 1988. This will seemingly continue through to 2012 and beyond. Anyway, back to the topic.....It's crazy how men who are quite obviously doing a terrible, terrible job can continue to lead the most 'powerful' country in the world. Just wait until Bush becomes a "war president" again...then watch republicans rally to support their "Fuhrer" as they get what they want. __________________ We are tired of your abuse Try to stop us it's no use Society's arms think they're smart I find satisfaction in what they lack We are born with a chance I am gonna have my chance Rise above... Rise above... http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/5...banner1rf7.gif I'm not here...

15-06-2006, 08:46 PM	#4
berrywoman Guy-a-licious Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 27,692 My Mood: Location: New York Cares Gender: Country: Chat posts: 0 Thanks given: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Quote: Originally Posted by mrcool011 all this dislike of republicans and yet democrats are still hated. they have a chance to take back washington but luckily for me they are screwing themselves over! cant say im mad. I never said one was better than the other.. they're politicians period lol but for those who give two rats asses... there's the 'pudding' so to speak. __________________ http://www.last.fm/user/berrychen/ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ http://nyc-specialist.tumblr.com/

15-06-2006, 09:46 PM	#5
MrLick Lemon World Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 26,016 My Mood: Location: Spokane. Gender: Country: Chat posts: 0 Thanks given: 61 Thanked 51 Times in 19 Posts	Quote: Originally Posted by berrywoman I never said one was better than the other.. they're politicians period lol but for those who give two rats asses... there's the 'pudding' so to speak. you dont have to say. its quite clear you are a democrat and favor them and probably vote for them. so by your actions and saying you are hinting democrasts are better. __________________ Even after all this time, the Sun never says to the Earth: "You owe me". Look at what happens with a love like that. It lights the whole sky.

15-06-2006, 09:56 PM	#6
GazeboflossUK Like Sleaze In The Park Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 3,621 Location: Newcastle Upon Tyne Gender: Country: Chat posts: 0 Thanks given: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	And your a prime, shining example of a modern day Republican..... Well done.... Although that's a bit harsh.....I know alot of people are just brought up that way. __________________ We are tired of your abuse Try to stop us it's no use Society's arms think they're smart I find satisfaction in what they lack We are born with a chance I am gonna have my chance Rise above... Rise above... http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/5...banner1rf7.gif I'm not here...

15-06-2006, 09:58 PM	#7
MrLick Lemon World Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 26,016 My Mood: Location: Spokane. Gender: Country: Chat posts: 0 Thanks given: 61 Thanked 51 Times in 19 Posts	Quote: Originally Posted by GazeboflossUK And your a prime, shining example of a modern day Republican..... Well done.... Although that's a bit harsh.....I know alot of people are just brought up that way. Thank you. im proud to be one. __________________ Even after all this time, the Sun never says to the Earth: "You owe me". Look at what happens with a love like that. It lights the whole sky.

15-06-2006, 10:08 PM	#8
GazeboflossUK Like Sleaze In The Park Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 3,621 Location: Newcastle Upon Tyne Gender: Country: Chat posts: 0 Thanks given: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Quote: Originally Posted by mrcool011 Thank you. im proud to be one. You can tell George and co. that when you see him....in Hell. (bare in mind I am 100% NONE religious, so Hell is a figure of speech - meaning IF there was a HELL you both would be able to chat to eachother there) I am kinda kidding here though.....you not evil like G.W....just mis-guided. __________________ We are tired of your abuse Try to stop us it's no use Society's arms think they're smart I find satisfaction in what they lack We are born with a chance I am gonna have my chance Rise above... Rise above... http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/5...banner1rf7.gif I'm not here...

15-06-2006, 10:52 PM	#9
MrLick Lemon World Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 26,016 My Mood: Location: Spokane. Gender: Country: Chat posts: 0 Thanks given: 61 Thanked 51 Times in 19 Posts	Quote: Originally Posted by GazeboflossUK You can tell George and co. that when you see him....in Hell. (bare in mind I am 100% NONE religious, so Hell is a figure of speech - meaning IF there was a HELL you both would be able to chat to eachother there) I am kinda kidding here though.....you not evil like G.W....just mis-guided. Why would he be in hell? GW is far from evil. no more then you or me. __________________ Even after all this time, the Sun never says to the Earth: "You owe me". Look at what happens with a love like that. It lights the whole sky.

16-06-2006, 12:10 AM	#10
GazeboflossUK Like Sleaze In The Park Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 3,621 Location: Newcastle Upon Tyne Gender: Country: Chat posts: 0 Thanks given: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Quote: Originally Posted by mrcool011 Why would he be in hell? GW is far from evil. no more then you or me. Hearing someone describe him as "far from evil" actually makes me laugh out loud. He really is a bad man. Obviously you can't (I mean won't) look into everything he has done and plans to do objectively...... I don't base my opinions on wether he is so called 'right', 'left' or any of that crap. __________________ We are tired of your abuse Try to stop us it's no use Society's arms think they're smart I find satisfaction in what they lack We are born with a chance I am gonna have my chance Rise above... Rise above... http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/5...banner1rf7.gif I'm not here...

16-06-2006, 12:25 AM	#11
alyssa first on last off Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 7,165 Location: S. California Gender: Country: Chat posts: 0 Thanks given: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	"People had an even lower opinion of the Republican-controlled Congress. Only 24 percent approved of the way it’s doing its job, essentially unchanged from last month but still a new low." Ow. That's harsh. Not surprising though. And I'm not a republican or democrat. I'm just displeased with how this country is being lead right now. __________________

16-06-2006, 01:25 AM	#12
berrywoman Guy-a-licious Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 27,692 My Mood: Location: New York Cares Gender: Country: Chat posts: 0 Thanks given: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Quote: Originally Posted by mrcool011 you dont have to say. its quite clear you are a democrat and favor them and probably vote for them. so by your actions and saying you are hinting democrasts are better. I'm not so blinded and jaded as you my friend I'd vote Guliani in a minute for Pres. and he's a die hard Republican... lol I also voted Republican in my first election... besides that, I don't vote for parties.. I vote for the 'right candidate'.... and for all you know... I could be a registed Independant.... at least I have a right to criticize... YOU haven't even voted. lol __________________ http://www.last.fm/user/berrychen/ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ http://nyc-specialist.tumblr.com/