Mel Gibson's Passion

[musiclover]

Howdy!

I see threads for movies all the time on here, so I thought I'd start one for this new movie that's coming out. It's called "Passion of the Christ" and it's directed and produced by Mel Gibson.

Gibson was interviewed last night by ABC's Diane Sawyer...I was totally bewildered. :o I mean, the guy has got religion, he's been "re-born" and at least to me, he just looked and sounded like a close-minded bigot :confused: :/

I know entire churches here have bought tickets en masse and they have even declared that this movie will be used to evangelize and that it's the best thing to have happened in decades....

I don't know about all that. I mean, Mel Gibson even says to Diane Sawyer that God helped him make this movie... what? hello!

Passion stories in the past have been used to target and kill Jews....I just hope things like that don't start again after people watch this movie. :confused: :(

I don't know if I want to go see it...I mean, I would be patronizing someone whose beliefs/ideas i don't like...

then again, marketing here is crazy. if Germany is good at engineering and China is good at manufacturing, America is definitely the best at marketing... :rolleyes:

[musiclover]

ummmm hello!? no replies yet, and like 10 people have seen this already. :rolleyes: :P :P

[Professor Peedston]

I watched that too, and to me, he didn't look at all like a bigot or close-minded. He just looked like somebody who has strong beliefs (keep in mind that I am in no way a christian). He even said something along the lines of "It's possible for people who aren't Catholics to go to heaven," which is something many devout Catholics will never even consider. In fact, I almost felt bad for him that he had to sit there and answer stupid questions like "are you an anti-semite?" It looked to me like Diane Sawyer doesn't understand the concept of a religion, with some of the questions she was asking him. I think he handled it very well.

And about God helping him make the movie, many artists throughout history have made similar claims. If you believe in a God, than Gibson receving His help making the movie shouldn't seem any more ridiculous than Him helping you making everyday decisions, and if you don't (which is the category I fall into), then you can at least admire somebody who has such strong convictions about things.

As far as the movie itself is concerned, I'm kind of curious to see if he portrays things as close to the Bible as he claims he did, and I think everybody else should see it first before they start throwing accusations at him. I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt until I see it.

[Professor Peedston]

ummmm hello!? no replies yet, and like 10 people have seen this already. :rolleyes: :P :P

sorry I took so long :P

[musiclover]

:P :P

[musiclover]

indeed u too long to reply! specially for such a juicy and controversial thing as this! :lol:

i agree with everything you say. it's just that his answers made me feel very uncomfortable. i'm just not used to people talking about their ideas on God and religions in such a public manner. So many wars in the past have been fought over religion...
may be i'm just being too sensitive on this, but i dread the day when missionaries come knocking at my door and try to give me a copy of this movie along with a bible...
i mean, everyone knows about this story already...why do we need such a dramatic movie, which, as per one critic, is just 2 hours of brutality.
and then, there's that part about the movie not making any attempt at telling us why the people were apparently against Jesus and his teachings. Instead, you see Jesus getting bad rap and apparently without any reason...which then portrays the people as being insane or the cause of Jesus' death.

I dunno..I'm not a Jew nor a Christian, so I don't even have any locus standii on these issues, but I was just terrified at how a movie star and a lot of marketing can move people. A rich guy in the Dallas area has bought out 25,000 tickets for this movie already and is distributing them for free to southern baptist churches...

[Professor Peedston]

Well, as you say, most people who see it will likely know the story, so to them, it won't look like Jesus is all of a sudden condemned to death for no reason. I'm still going to wait until I've seen it before I judge it one way or the other, but I'm not really worried about it fueling anti-semitism, because I think most people are smarter than that nowadays.

An interesting side note: the guy who plays Jesus was struck by lightning while filming the Sermon on the Mount. If that's not a bad omen... :lol:

[musiclover]

oh really? :stunned: wow

and the actress that plays Jesus' mother is actually Jewish...and gibson edited a scene out of the final version after she said it might around wrong sort of passion among viewers. :/


i guess Al Jazeera or someone will next come out with a story on Allah.

[Professor Peedston]

Here's an idea: have a devout Muslim director and a devout Jewish director make their own movies about Jesus's death, and then show them with Gibson's movie.

It'd be a balanced way of viewing it anyway. :P

[Sternly]

You know I think with all spotlight this movie is going to take/have you are goign to see like both sides. What I've read is that, in a way, is like anti-Jewish ( but I can't say it until I see it ) but they are going to defend themselves too, and well I think the fact that his version is like much more known, helps a lot but I don't think what Musiclover's said is going to happen. In other word, I quite agree with Mr. Peed.

[Kettercat]

Yeah, I think this movie will be banned in Israel. Damn right as well. I ain't seen this movie and probably never will, but that's certainly a lousy excuse for a movie from what I've read :rolleyes:

[musiclover]

i didn't say anything is going to happen, i just fear it might happen. or in the least, you will have an army of people going about trying to convert other people to their way of thinking about an after-life while making hell of the present life! seriously, i have no respect for the missionary-types...and this movie will be one more weapon in their multimedia armory. and it's not the educated folks who might get worked up about it, it's the uneducated ones, in the third world etc... :/

and

:lol: :lol: @ tom's idea.

[Sternly]

Well it probably won't be banned here, but they won't show it anyway. We get like 10% of the movies you see there so...... :rolleyes: :D

[musiclover]

:D :cool: only the best 10% :sneaky:

[Professor Peedston]

if you take the best 10% of the movies that come out here, you'd still be watching mostly crap. :P

[Sternly]

Not really! The more commercial 10%. That doesn't mean quiality though :/

[musiclover]

:lol: :lol:

[soleil]

An interesting side note: the guy who plays Jesus was struck by lightning while filming the Sermon on the Mount. If that's not a bad omen... :lol:

Funny stuff.


I want to see this movie, just to see how Gibson filmed it and to see if all the events are portrayed accurately.

[mycdplayerisbroke]

speaking of born again christians....
one of them jacked a video game of mine worth 50$
ahhhh!
why do mean people suck

[';']

i was going to make a post about this the second i started watching that thing on abc about it. :blush:


i didn't really pay attention any of it though, but i really want to go and see it when it comes out. :D

[musiclover]

An interesting side note: the guy who plays Jesus was struck by lightning while filming the Sermon on the Mount. If that's not a bad omen... :lol:

Funny stuff.


I want to see this movie, just to see how Gibson filmed it and to see if all the events are portrayed accurately.


and how would you know if the events are "accurate"? I mean, you would fall back on your own interpretation of what the Bible has to say about all those events, right?
what's more, most of the churches don't even follow the christianity or the teachings as they were taught by christ and followed up until 4th century. There is a growing literature on the Gnostics, for example. There also is a new best-selling book written by a Harvard prof. of theology that says that the gospel of St. Thomas was side-lined and the one of St. Paul came to be dominant, but that the one of St. Thomas is actually how christianity was during the time of Christ himself.
I'm fascinated by all this, 'cuz many of the teachings of Gnostics, and even the gospel of St. Thomas talk about God and humans in much the same ways as Hinduism (and to some extent Buddhism) do..."cut a tree, and I am there; split a rock, and I am there!" God is not in some heaven, He is omnipresent, and that humans are not sinners but are beings at lower levels of consciousness, that by raising our self-consciousness through prayer and such, we could have our own direct relationship with God! You don't need a pope or a church for that!

apparently, this vision ran counter to the political/power hungry elite among the christians of 4th century who went about killing and side-linging the main kings/leaders that supported the gospel of St. Thomas, and replaced these with the ones who supported the papacy and gospel of St. Paul...


I would recommend everyone interested in watching this movie to also watch another movie: Stigmata. That movie came out a few years ago and it raised lots of hackels among the establishment church and was obviously hushed up and given no marketing....if you notice, the effect and power of establishment chruch is omnipresent...in the name of a God that's apparently ruling us from afar...

[weedy_gonzalez]

i mean, everyone knows about this story already...why do we need such a dramatic movie, which, as per one critic, is just 2 hours of brutality.

can`t you see what going on in the world? people tend to forget about what`s really important. it`s all about the money instead of love. i believe that God (however you call Him: Yahwe, Buddha, Allah) IS LOVE. we forget about God = love and value materialistic stuff more. this kinda movie is to remind you what life`s all about. we turn our backs to God (love) and that aint right.

[weedy_gonzalez]

An interesting side note: the guy who plays Jesus was struck by lightning while filming the Sermon on the Mount. If that's not a bad omen... :lol:

Funny stuff.


I want to see this movie, just to see how Gibson filmed it and to see if all the events are portrayed accurately.


and how would you know if the events are "accurate"? I mean, you would fall back on your own interpretation of what the Bible has to say about all those events, right?
what's more, most of the churches don't even follow the christianity or the teachings as they were taught by christ and followed up until 4th century. There is a growing literature on the Gnostics, for example. There also is a new best-selling book written by a Harvard prof. of theology that says that the gospel of St. Thomas was side-lined and the one of St. Paul came to be dominant, but that the one of St. Thomas is actually how christianity was during the time of Christ himself.
I'm fascinated by all this, 'cuz many of the teachings of Gnostics, and even the gospel of St. Thomas talk about God and humans in much the same ways as Hinduism (and to some extent Buddhism) do..."cut a tree, and I am there; split a rock, and I am there!" God is not in some heaven, He is omnipresent, and that humans are not sinners but are beings at lower levels of consciousness, that by raising our self-consciousness through prayer and such, we could have our own direct relationship with God! You don't need a pope or a church for that!

then we don`t need buddhist monks either

[musiclover]

that's all true, Kasia. But apparently, all though history, 'God' seems to be the reason people have gone to war, committed savage crimes, and all the other things. Why can't people once and for all just leave God to every individual...let them do their own thinking and come to their own conclusions instead of trying to get people convinced about your own ideas of how it was or how it will be if you don't accept a story...

i'm all for people to be spiritual and Godly, in their own personal ways. I know I try to be that way...

i dunno...i guess one could say to me "who are you to dictate to me how i should or should not talk about god"...so i guess i'll just lay low now on this issue... :D :P

[weedy_gonzalez]

in aCTUAL FACT WE DON`T NEED IT ALL! (sorry for tha caps)

we don`t need schools

we don`t need doctors

we don`t need parents

we for sure don`t need politicians!

we can live our own lives, make our own rules and kil one another just the same

we can be reasonable and wise human beings right after we are born

when infants we can survive without help of anyone

when children we can value,praise and maintain things/people we want and like and kill those we hate

WE DON`T NEED NO PREACHIN!

[musiclover]

whoa...Kasia, you seem to think that only religion and Catholic Church can bring any good to society. What has it brought to humans in the last 2000 years? wars and endless wars? Inquisitions? disease to native americans?

don't get me wrong...religion has its place. just not at the top of the matters.


and i don't get your reference to buddhist monks :huh: what is that about? there is no correlation to what i said and to having no buddhist monks! :rolleyes:

[weedy_gonzalez]

that's all true, Kasia. But apparently, all though history, 'God' seems to be the reason people have gone to war, committed savage crimes, and all the other things. Why can't people once and for all just leave God to every individual...let them do their own thinking and come to their own conclusions instead of trying to get people convinced about your own ideas of how it was or how it will be if you don't accept a story...

war is a psychological meaning if you take a look back into history. have you ever heard of a woman who`s start a war? i haven`t. war has always been a 'masculine issue' if you know what i mean. males have it in genes. they fight about money, women, food and religion. they are males and males are meant to fight.

testosterone

i'm all for people to be spiritual and Godly, in their own personal ways. I know I try to be that way...

me too

[musiclover]

apparently, most wars that i can think of have been fought over land and religion....

you should read "2000 years of disbelief" and you will get some idea about how revolting some of the religious wars have been...

[musiclover]

can`t you see what going on in the world? people tend to forget about what`s really important. it`s all about the money instead of love. i believe that God (however you call Him: Yahwe, Buddha, Allah) IS LOVE. we forget about God = love


love? religions do talk of brotherly love etc. they all do. not one exception to it. then why is there blood spilt in the name of this love? one religion's name itself means "peace", yet i can tell you countless histories of how unpeaceful its followers have been toward people of other religion. :rolleyes:

and people of another religion seem to think only they have authority of how love should be and if you don't accept their love, you start to get attacked by all sorts of unscrupulus means... :rolleyes:

[weedy_gonzalez]

whoa...Kasia, you seem to think that only religion and Catholic Church can bring any good to society. What has it brought to humans in the last 2000 years? wars and endless wars? Inquisitions? disease to native americans?

it`s not catholic church that brought the wars and diseases. it`s us, humans. we are able to make our own choices, we make them, sometimes they`re right, sometimes they`re not. and i believe diseases are the result of the wrong choices we made. i believe that you get what you give to the universe. it`s a circle.

and please don`t tell me i think that only catholic church can bring good to society. i hope you don`t think so becuz you know i`m catholic.

and i don't get your reference to buddhist monks :huh: what is that about? there is no correlation to what i said and to having no buddhist monks! :rolleyes:

sorry i thought buddhist monks teach young kids about love, religion, truth just as catholic priests do but i must have messed it up. :cool:

[musiclover]

and umm....Joan of Arc was a woman that fought quite well...

and there are many other women too in history. they just seem to be sidelined by male history writers, i guess... :D :P

one terrific example is the women of Sparta who not only would give up their male children to state military schools at the young age of 7, but would also demand that during war, their kids better come back winners or don't come back at all!! the few deserters were spitted upon by their own mothers...

[weedy_gonzalez]

apparently, most wars that i can think of have been fought over land and religion....

you should read "2000 years of disbelief" and you will get some idea about how revolting some of the religious wars have been...

still i can`t think of a single woman that started a war. there were wars (or fights) between men over beautiful women (mythological troy for instance) but somehow i can`t think of two women starting a war over a man.

[weedy_gonzalez]

can`t you see what going on in the world? people tend to forget about what`s really important. it`s all about the money instead of love. i believe that God (however you call Him: Yahwe, Buddha, Allah) IS LOVE. we forget about God = love


love? religions do talk of brotherly love etc. they all do. not one exception to it. then why is there blood spilt in the name of this love? one religion's name itself means "peace", yet i can tell you countless histories of how unpeaceful its followers have been toward people of other religion. :rolleyes:

and people of another religion seem to think only they have authority of how love should be and if you don't accept their love, you start to get attacked by all sorts of unscrupulus means... :rolleyes:

i still don`t understand why you blame it on catholic church. is it the only religion that caused wars? or do you wanna start a new war? :P :P

[weedy_gonzalez]

and umm....Joan of Arc was a woman that fought quite well...

and there are many other women too in history. they just seem to be sidelined by male history writers, i guess... :D :P

one terrific example is the women of Sparta who not only would give up their male children to state military schools at the young age of 7, but would also demand that during war, their kids better come back winners or don't come back at all!! the few deserters were spitted upon by their own mothers...

yeah but did any these women actually start a war?

[weedy_gonzalez]

musiclover did you give up? i can be pretty defensive and i don`t give up easily. :wink3: :wink3: :D :P

[musiclover]

it`s not catholic church that brought the wars and diseases. it`s us, humans. we are able to make our own choices, we make them, sometimes they`re right, sometimes they`re not. and i believe diseases are the result of the wrong choices we made. i believe that you get what you give to the universe. it`s a circle.

and please don`t tell me i think that only catholic church can bring good to society. i hope you don`t think so becuz you know i`m catholic.


no, i only wondered that because you went into various societal limbs (schools, doctors, civic society etc.) and said we don't need those, either, 'cuz i seemed--to you--to say that we don't need religion. So to me, you came out saying that either we have the church or we have nothing. And i don't agree with it. Church has organized society in helpful ways but it has also caused problems, and there can be no getting away from that blame...it rests squarely on the shoulders of chruch hiercharcy. how can you say that it can't be blamed when in fact past popes have been glorified for declaring war and fighting war!?




sorry i thought buddhist monks teach young kids about love, religion, truth just as catholic priests do but i must have messed it up.


ummm yeah...I doubt there is a buddhist 'pope' and a buddhist treasury that sends well-endowed missionaries abroad to teach people about love, or rather force-feed them the same... :rolleyes:

[weedy_gonzalez]

it`s not catholic church that brought the wars and diseases. it`s us, humans. we are able to make our own choices, we make them, sometimes they`re right, sometimes they`re not. and i believe diseases are the result of the wrong choices we made. i believe that you get what you give to the universe. it`s a circle.

and please don`t tell me i think that only catholic church can bring good to society. i hope you don`t think so becuz you know i`m catholic.


no, i only wondered that because you went into various societal limbs (schools, doctors, civic society etc.) and said we don't need those, either, 'cuz i seemed--to you--to say that we don't need religion. So to me, you came out saying that either we have the church or we have nothing. And i don't agree with it. Church has organized society in helpful ways but it has also caused problems, and there can be no getting away from that blame...it rests squarely on the shoulders of chruch hiercharcy. how can you say that it can't be blamed when in fact past popes have been glorified for declaring war and fighing war!?

i suggest you read my brainstorm again and think of it as of something that was created and meant to be sarcastic and ironic :)

[musiclover]

yeah but did any these women actually start a war?


except for queen elizabeth of england, i can't think of any right now. Actually, there's the queen of Jhansi (she's well-respected and well-renowned for her courage in India). these two women for sure started their own wars.


as to why others didn't...you have only to look at the society. church doesn't even allow women priests even now, right? women didn't play important role in society, not just in war...
but the few examples that are out there, those women DID bring up God as their reason to fight...

wasn't the fear of catholic takeover that prompted elizabeth to fight? or may be it's vice-versa...but there was definitely religion as the motive...

[weedy_gonzalez]

[quote]

sorry i thought buddhist monks teach young kids about love, religion, truth just as catholic priests do but i must have messed it up.


ummm yeah...I doubt there is a buddhist 'pope' and a buddhist treasury that sends well-endowed missionaries abroad to teach people about love, or rather force-feed them the same... :rolleyes:

and i do not

[weedy_gonzalez]

yeah but did any these women actually start a war?


except for queen elizabeth of england, i can't think of any right now. Actually, there's the queen of Jhansi (she's well-respected and well-renowned for her courage in India). these two women for sure started their own wars.


as to why others didn't...you have only to look at the society. church doesn't even allow women priests even now, right? women didn't play important role in society, not just in war...
but the few examples that are out there, those women DID bring up God as their reason to fight...

wasn't the fear of catholic takeover that prompted elizabeth to fight? or may be it's vice-versa...but there was definitely religion as the motive...

these 2 women must have had an enormous amount of testosterone. a normal woman doesn`t have the need to start a war or gight like a man. it`s scientifically proven.

queen elizabeth tha 1st was a great queen and a strong woman.

and isn`t religion the cause of suffering to many women? take islam for instance. how are islamic women treated? like things. catholic church aint tha bad after all

[musiclover]

i suggest you read my brainstorm again and think of it as of something that was created and meant to be sarcastic and ironic



no, i already know it was meant to be sarcastic and ironic. but your sarcasm and irony falls on its face, for you can't even stand up for religion!

no, we don't need religion to be our guiding light as a society...
but yes, we still do need doctors, schools, civic society...

the two are disjointed!

[musiclover]

and isn`t religion the cause of suffering to many women? take islam for instance. how are islamic women treated? like things. catholic church aint tha bad after all


:lol: :lol: you're comparing one bad thing with another...all organized religions have been bad for a vast majority of humans! :confused: :/ only the leading 'lights' of these religions have profited.

i'm not condoning hinduism or buddhism either. but at least there are no popes or kings that tell their people to fight a war in the name of religion...they're more humanistic. but, all the same, in the name of religion, hindus have caste system which is as bad as anything out there. :confused: :/

[musiclover]

and, all the same, you tell me of women who were great painters or great architects or writers that came from the catholic church. you'll find that women don't fill these occupations either. which is unfortunate.

[weedy_gonzalez]

i suggest you read my brainstorm again and think of it as of something that was created and meant to be sarcastic and ironic



no, i already know it was meant to be sarcastic and ironic. but your sarcasm and irony falls on its face, for you can't even stand up for religion!

no, we don't need religion to be our guiding light as a society...
but yes, we still do need doctors, schools, civic society...

the two are disjointed!

that is your opinion and i respect that.

however i do believe that religion has a meaning and is important for it has been here for milleniums and that means something. even the most primitive 1st human beings on this planet believed in something. ppl need faith. we have it in our genes. whether it`s the faith in God, gods, goddesses, nature or just simply faith in yourself, we all have the need to believe. it`s as important as physical health, school education, social relationships. the spiritual self is as important (if not more) as the physical one. i hope i made sense. :D

[weedy_gonzalez]

and isn`t religion the cause of suffering to many women? take islam for instance. how are islamic women treated? like things. catholic church aint tha bad after all


:lol: :lol: you're comparing one bad thing with another...all organized religions have been bad for a vast majority of humans! :confused: :/ only the leading 'lights' of these religions have profited.

i'm not condoning hinduism or buddhism either. but at least there are no popes or kings that tell their people to fight a war in the name of religion...they're more humanistic. but, all the same, in the name of religion, hindus have caste system which is as bad as anything out there. :confused: :/

see, that`s why ppl should in my opinion be educated and be able to choose what they wanna believe in. so we can`t get rid of preachers or anyone who teaches the spiritual aspect of ourselves. that would lead to massive materialism.

i`m not saying that priests aint rich but what they do and how they live shouldn`t interest any of us since we should concentrate on the knowledge they want to share with us. it`s like you`re being a fan of say coldplay, you like their music and listen to their lyrics but you shouldn`t be interested in any of the guys` personal life. or when for example your doctor smokes ciggs which is the opposite of what he tells you to stay healthy, he says steer clear of this shit while he breathes in himself but does that mean that he`s gonna prescribe you bad medicines when you`re ill? do the things he does when he`s home change the fact that he`s a good doctor and wants to help ppl?

i`m not saying about criminal doctors, the evil ones. you see there`s evil all around us. you don`t even know if your neighbor aint a thief. there are good ppl as well as bad ppl, good doctors as well as bad ones, good priests as well as bad ones.

[weedy_gonzalez]

and, all the same, you tell me of women who were great painters or great architects or writers that came from the catholic church. you'll find that women don't fill these occupations either. which is unfortunate.

that was in the past when women had literally nothing to say. but the situation changed in the last century and ever since has any woman started a war?

[weedy_gonzalez]

too much red, can`t help loving the colour :P

[musiclover]

margaret thatcher of u.k, against argentina

indira gandhi of india, against west pakistan (to free east pakistan which is not bangladesh) :-)

can't think of any others. don't know if golda mier of israel started any wars or not...

anyways, we can go on and on about this...

[weedy_gonzalez]

was any of these wars about religion?

[musiclover]

see, that`s why ppl should in my opinion be educated and be able to choose what they wanna believe in. so we can`t get rid of preachers or anyone who teaches the spiritual aspect of ourselves. that would lead to massive materialism.


i don't care if preachers preach to those who want to listen. i do care when they use propaganda, fear, and their money power to gain converts. that's not spirituality, not at least in my books. but in the name of spreading religion, that's what these preachers are doing all around the world. it's almost as if they treat spreading religion as a business...which is a mokery of everything that these folks are supposed to stand for.

in the past, it was about the competition between whose church spire was the tallest (to attract more folks to their own chruch) or whose church had the biggest reliquery. now, it's about whose church can gain the most converts in the third world. so you have some people in places like kashmir that get baptized one week by Catholics in exchange for a job; the next week, they baptize with Baptists who offer money...
saddest part is when the missionaries hold out on basic medicines, ask the illeterates to pray first to their god in which case nothing happens...then they ask them to pray to jesus and then give them the cheap medicine which cures them and later the whole village converts in the belief that jesus is their savior! and don't think i'm pulling this out of thin air...lots of such cases out there. it's not religion, it's something else altogether!

[musiclover]

however i do believe that religion has a meaning and is important for it has been here for milleniums and that means something. even the most primitive 1st human beings on this planet believed in something. ppl need faith. we have it in our genes. whether it`s the faith in God, gods, goddesses, nature or just simply faith in yourself,


hon, i'm not saying don't give a damn about religion. i'm saying it should be your own private matter as to which god you pray to. and there shouldn't be all this craze about trying to convert the whole world to your own way of thinking...that leads to religious wars.

and what do u mean by "believe in God, gods or goddesses..." what's the difference between the capital 'God' and the other 'god' or 'goddess'? i don't get it...

[musiclover]

and i, for one, definitely am a believer in the brotherhood of humanity that Beethoven talked about in his 9th symphony...

[MrsBerry]

what is this thread about ?

*hugs musiclover*

[musiclover]

hey Deniseeeeeee!! :-)

*hugs*

ohhh..it's just about this movie that's coming out soon here in the States...produced and directed by Mel Gibson. It's called the Passion of The Christ...and i guess it's controversial on many points and then the topic moved on just to religion and society... :D :P

i guess it's controversial to talk about religion anyways... so we should stop... :)

[MrsBerry]

oh.. that movie... hmmmm....

Let´s talk about something else.. Pick a subject :D

[musiclover]

:lol: :lol: yep...that one!

[weedy_gonzalez]

see, that`s why ppl should in my opinion be educated and be able to choose what they wanna believe in. so we can`t get rid of preachers or anyone who teaches the spiritual aspect of ourselves. that would lead to massive materialism.


i don't care if preachers preach to those who want to listen. i do care when they use propaganda, fear, and their money power to gain converts. that's not spirituality, not at least in my books. but in the name of spreading religion, that's what these preachers are doing all around the world. it's almost as if they treat spreading religion as a business...which is a mokery of everything that these folks are supposed to stand for.

in the past, it was about the competition between whose church spire was the tallest (to attract more folks to their own chruch) or whose church had the biggest reliquery. now, it's about whose church can gain the most converts in the third world. so you have some people in places like kashmir that get baptized one week by Catholics in exchange for a job; the next week, they baptize with Baptists who offer money...
saddest part is when the missionaries hold out on basic medicines, ask the illeterates to pray first to their god in which case nothing happens...then they ask them to pray to jesus and then give them the cheap medicine which cures them and later the whole village converts in the belief that jesus is their savior! and don't think i'm pulling this out of thin air...lots of such cases out there. it's not religion, it's something else altogether!

who told you that? or where did you read it? where did you find it? i don`t believe a single word. i won`t until i see it myself and you shouldn`t either. missionaries go to for example african countries and risk their lives becuz the culture difference is too much and they might get mistaken for an enemy or something. it`s not like teaching a 5 year old. we`re talking about a major culture difference. and they do it not becuz they want to make money, they do it becuz that`s what the bible tells them to do.

missionaries are there becuz that`s what the holy bible tells. it says that the ones who know of God and Jesus should spread the word and faith to the ones who weren`t blessed with knowing it.

[weedy_gonzalez]

however i do believe that religion has a meaning and is important for it has been here for milleniums and that means something. even the most primitive 1st human beings on this planet believed in something. ppl need faith. we have it in our genes. whether it`s the faith in God, gods, goddesses, nature or just simply faith in yourself,


hon, i'm not saying don't give a damn about religion. i'm saying it should be your own private matter as to which god you pray to. and there shouldn't be all this craze about trying to convert the whole world to your own way of thinking...that leads to religious wars.

and what do u mean by "believe in God, gods or goddesses..." what's the difference between the capital 'God' and the other 'god' or 'goddess'? i don't get it...

and it is your own damn private matter. does anyone orders you what to believe? you can listen to the pope but you don`t nessesarily (sp?) have to agree with him or to what he`s saying.

i`m not saying that other popes were like john paul the 2nd. i was born in 1983 (5 -i think- years after he became the pope) and i`m not that into history but i know that if other popes were into wars (i do believe they were becuz at some point one of them approved of poland getting outta map) john paul the 2nd is a great man, i respect him and love him for who he is.

i always write the name 'God' in capital letter. i guess it`s a polish gramatical matter. i would make a gramatical mistake if i wrote gods, goddesses in capitals. i don`t know if you do it the same way in english. sorry, i`m not a genius. you`ll prolly gonna ask me why i write any other name (including my own) like this 'kasia' instead of like this 'Kasia' when i write God the way i do. the answer is simple: i just can`t do it any other way. it`s my own way of partly paying respect to God.

[weedy_gonzalez]

what is this thread about ?

aaah just musiclover and me arguing. i wonder who wins!!! :sneaky: :sneaky: :P :P :P :D :D i can be wuite a competitor *meow* :D

[musiclover]

missionaries are there becuz that`s what the holy bible tells. it says that the ones who know of God and Jesus should spread the word and faith to the ones who weren`t blessed with knowing it.


yeah...that's called bible-thumping, and it's very irritating to those who don't want it.
bible says many other things, not just that the gospels be spread. if we all follow what the bible says, we'll be living in a completely different society where gays are killed and slaves are kept, etc... :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
moreoever, Rome has explicit treaty with Israel to not send missionaries to convert the Jews.
Similarly, the missionaries are not allowed into Saudi Arabia.

To me, they are like parasite...you host them and then they take over your society! :angry: in one state in india, the missionaries are even providing arms to people whom they converted (and who now feel that they need to break away from india!)...and don't tell me you don't accept these because many media reports are out there on forcible conversions... i wouldn't mind reproducing many of them on here...

[';']

:rolleyes:




i just want to see it

[weedy_gonzalez]

missionaries are there becuz that`s what the holy bible tells. it says that the ones who know of God and Jesus should spread the word and faith to the ones who weren`t blessed with knowing it.


yeah...that's called bible-thumping, and it's very irritating to those who don't want it.
bible says many other things, not just that the gospels be spread. if we all follow what the bible says, we'll be living in a completely different society where gays are killed and slaves are kept, etc... :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
moreoever, Rome has explicit treaty with Israel to not send missionaries to convert the Jews.
Similarly, the missionaries are not allowed into Saudi Arabia.


have you ever actually read the bible to say things like that? it`s not the problem with the bible but with the interpretation of it. and hell there are many. but what i got from the bible (i`ve not read the whole thing) is that God is love and He wants us to love one another and that`s my religion, that`s what really matters to me. i don`t ever want to hate, kill,envy, destroy - i just want to give love and get love.

[weedy_gonzalez]

:rolleyes:




i just want to see it

and i`m dying to see something`s gotta give. it`s out on march 12th in poland (the day i turn 20 and 6 months) :cool:

[musiclover]

and it is your own damn private matter. does anyone orders you what to believe? you can listen to the pope but you don`t nessesarily (sp?) have to agree with him or to what he`s saying.


ummm yeah...when missionaries come with medicines and schools and money, and tell people how to pray and whom to pray, and to change their names and their age-old customs, then they don't have a choice. you don't see these missions in rich countries so much as you see them in poor lands...where people are easy to "harvest"...it's like Al Queda going and recruiting terrorists among the poor muslims 'cuz they are easy to brain-wash!



i always write the name 'God' in capital letter. i guess it`s a polish gramatical matter. i would make a gramatical mistake if i wrote gods, goddesses in capitals. i don`t know if you do it the same way in english. sorry, i`m not a genius. you`ll prolly gonna ask me why i write any other name (including my own) like this 'kasia' instead of like this 'Kasia' when i write God the way i do. the answer is simple: i just can`t do it any other way. it`s my own way of partly paying respect to God.


it's simple...you're indoctrinated to think that the god of jesus, as written in bible, is the only true 'God'...all Gods of other religions are 'false' 'gods' with small 'g'...

i don't mind that you believe in that, but to me, it comes off as rude and to others, it comes off as bigotry, as obviously, nobody for sure knows whose version of 'God' or whose sacret texts are 'right', so to speak...

[musiclover]

have you ever actually read the bible to say things like that?

no, not me personally. but i've read articles quoting bible to the exact reference (book, page, verse, etc.) so i know it's true that the bible allows keeping slaves and demands and gays be put to death. In fact, slavery in America continued until 1860s because the white slave-holders in the South even taught their slaves that it was correct to be owned! many white in the South felt they did no wrong in moral terms by owning slaves...because they could quote the bible on it...


and no, you can't say it's all on interpretation. you have to judge people by their acts, not by what their interpretation is or what they base their acts on. Many muslims said the 9/11 terrorists weren't real muslims 'cuz Quran doesn't allow terrorism...but the fact is, all 19 terrorists thought of themselves as devout Muslims who were acting in the name of islam. Same goes to many other Christian events in history...

and no, don't keep saying this is a 'fight' and wondering who will 'win' it...i dont see this as a win or lose. rather, i'm getting to know your thinking on religion...and it's quite interesting.... :D

[weedy_gonzalez]

and it is your own damn private matter. does anyone orders you what to believe? you can listen to the pope but you don`t nessesarily (sp?) have to agree with him or to what he`s saying.


ummm yeah...when missionaries come with medicines and schools and money, and tell people how to pray and whom to pray, and to change their names and their age-old customs, then they don't have a choice. you don't see these missions in rich countries so much as you see them in poor lands...where people are easy to "harvest"...it's like Al Queda going and recruiting terrorists among the poor muslims 'cuz they are easy to brain-wash!

as i said before they do it becuz the bible tells them to. some ppl in this world weren`t priviledged enough to have faith in God. acording to the bible it`s better for them to actually believe in God than remain pagan.



i always write the name 'God' in capital letter. i guess it`s a polish gramatical matter. i would make a gramatical mistake if i wrote gods, goddesses in capitals. i don`t know if you do it the same way in english. sorry, i`m not a genius. you`ll prolly gonna ask me why i write any other name (including my own) like this 'kasia' instead of like this 'Kasia' when i write God the way i do. the answer is simple: i just can`t do it any other way. it`s my own way of partly paying respect to God.


it's simple...you're indoctrinated to think that the god of jesus, as written in bible, is the only true 'God'...all Gods of other religions are 'false' 'gods' with small 'g'...

i don't mind that you believe in that, but to me, it comes off as rude and to others, it comes off as bigotry, as obviously, nobody for sure knows whose version of 'God' or whose sacret texts are 'right', so to speak...

i`m not going to repeat myself in that and i`m not intoxicated by nothing. if you want to read my reply to this, please reread my quote above

[weedy_gonzalez]

have you ever actually read the bible to say things like that?

no, not me personally. but i've read articles quoting bible to the exact reference (book, page, verse, etc.) so i know it's true that the bible allows keeping slaves and demands and gays be put to death. In fact, slavery in America continued until 1860s because the white slave-holders in the South even taught their slaves that it was correct to be owned! many white in the South felt they did no wrong in moral terms by owning slaves...because they could quote the bible on it...


and no, you can't say it's all on interpretation. you have to judge people by their acts, not by what their interpretation is or what they base their acts on. Many muslims said the 9/11 terrorists weren't real muslims 'cuz Quran doesn't allow terrorism...but the fact is, all 19 terrorists thought of themselves as devout Muslims who were acting in the name of islam. Same goes to many other Christian events in history...

i don`t know how har dit is to interpret koran but i do know that how hard it is to not only interpret the bible but also how har dit was to be able to read it for it was originally written in vowels (i think vowels...vowels are: a, e, i, y etc right?)

and no, don't keep saying this is a 'fight' and wondering who will 'win' it...i dont see this as a win or lose. rather, i'm getting to know your thinking on religion...and it's quite interesting.... :D

i`m getting to know yours too. :D but i can`t change the fact that i`m a competitor by nature :wink3: :sneaky:

[musiclover]

as i said before they do it becuz the bible tells them to. some ppl in this world weren`t priviledged enough to have faith in God. acording to the bible it`s better for them to actually believe in God than remain pagan.


you don't get it, do you? :rolleyes:
most people are happy in their own beliefs and their own religions. and if they're not, they would read up on bible and your 'God' and then convert and not be 'pagan' anymore.
I'm happy to be 'pagan' or 'heathen' and happy to go to hell according to your close-minded beliefs. but i'm sad and mad when you try and convert me or my co-religionists who don't want to hear about your 'god'...
do you get it? that's why there are always these religious wars...people resent it when you tell them that what they believe in is 'false' or 'demon worship'. :angry:


and i told you...bible says many other things...so why don't they follow all those things? why do they have a treaty to not try and spread the word about their 'God' to Jews? Why do they not go to Mecca and try to convert the Muslims there?

[musiclover]

as you said, people have always believed in something supernatural...so why do you want them to hear about your god? why can't you "live and let live"? Nobody, as far as I can tell, ever asked a Christian to give up worshipping Christ or tell a Christian that bible is false and jesus is 'demon'! :rolleyes:

[musiclover]

are you saying i don't believe in God? or that 1 billion Hindus don't believe in God?
or Africans that worship nature or who do Vodoo don't believe in God? if so...i give up...it's one more win to the close-minded beliefs of chrsitianity and islam! :D

i know for sure that Hinduism's main tenet is: There is only one Truth; sages call It by different names!

[Leaver]

*head's taking* :sneaky:

[musiclover]

huh? i don't know what that's suppose to mean... "head's taking" ? :huh: :rolleyes:

[Leaver]

french expression

[musiclover]

that still doesn't tell me what it means! :rolleyes: or what you were trying to say! :rolleyes:


kasia wanted some news articles...here's one web site compiling many articles about the terrorist-ic activities of some who try to convert others to christianity.
http://www.geocities.com/orthopapism/twipra.html

"Church supporting rebels in Tripura"
http://www.hvk.org/articles/0703/137.html
"The NLFT is accused of forcing Tripura’s indigenous tribes to become Christians and give up Hindu forms of worship in areas under their control. Last year, they had issued a ban on the Hindu festivals of Durga Puja and Saraswati Puja. The NLFT manifesto says that they want to expand what they describe as the kingdom of God and Christ in Tripura. The Baptist Church in Tripura was set up by missionaries from New Zealand 60 years ago.

It won only a few thousand converts until 1980 when in the aftermath of the State’s worst ethnic riot, the number of conversions grew."

just one example, but it shows how christian missionaries pounce on poor people or those who are affected by riots or earthquakes or the like...it is pure treachery!

[Leaver]

it's an expression from my philosophy teacher :sneaky:

[musiclover]

http://www.stephen-knapp.com/thirteen_years_of_killings_in_tripura.htm
"In our concern for the violence that takes place daily in India's Northeast region, here is a sample of the typical but atrocious news that comes out of the region due to the insurgency of the terrorist, militant Christian groups that act in the area. These groups, in their promotion of Christianity, continue to kill thousands of local people in their attempt to ban all Hindu practices and convert everyone into Christians."


so next time when your local church asks money to send "missions" to third world countries, you know that if you give money, you are helping in killing thousands of people, or at the least, uprooting millions from their traditions and their local societies...it's an upheavel like none other. it's up to you...don't turn a blind eye to it!

[musiclover]

some more blood in the name of christ?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/953200.stm

[Leaver]

it's sort of a monologue religious thread :sneaky:

[musiclover]

yeah...i guess i'll stop now! :smug: :sneaky:

sorry if i offended anyone though! not my purpose... :/

[Leaver]

mais non mais non
but you're waiting in other threads :dozey:

[musiclover]

http://www.kentaxrecords.com/iaca/php/item_display.php?id=1077170198&type=news
Faithful plan evangelism with 'Passion'

[Leaver]

...shine your light now..this time is gotta be good

[musiclover]

hmmmm

i gave some good links up there! :-)

[mycdplayerisbroke]

is it even out yet?

[musiclover]

no, but it's supposed to be out on Easter day? Or a month ahead of Easter? I'm not sure...there's just a lot of buzz about it :D

[blangy]

hey musiclover i totally agree with you about all the wars/blood in the name of christ with the church supporting them it's always been like that in every war there is a religion part or interest in...

and about the movie i've read those articles where they said this movie is gonna be used as an instrument to teach about god to the ppl :stunned: and here in Mexico believe me it's gonna be a controversy movie i've read there's gonna be to beggin just one copy of it :lol: c'mon and depending what the church here says about it it's gonna be the reaction of the ppl as always happen in this kind of matters where religion is involved here in my "religious" country :dozey:

[musiclover]

hi Blanca!! :-)

it's cool we agree on that! :D

and yep..it'll be controversial. but i don't think it will be such a big deal in Mexico since ya'll are all Catholics, and the Pope even is supposedly seen the movie and said that the movie shows the facts: "It is as it was." so...let's see, i guess!

are you doing to go see it, if they show it there? :wink3:

[Leaver]

blanca should agree on posting IN ZONA HISPANA FORUM :angry:

[weedy_gonzalez]

as i said before they do it becuz the bible tells them to. some ppl in this world weren`t priviledged enough to have faith in God. acording to the bible it`s better for them to actually believe in God than remain pagan.


you don't get it, do you? :rolleyes:
most people are happy in their own beliefs and their own religions. and if they're not, they would read up on bible and your 'God' and then convert and not be 'pagan' anymore.
I'm happy to be 'pagan' or 'heathen' and happy to go to hell according to your close-minded beliefs. but i'm sad and mad when you try and convert me or my co-religionists who don't want to hear about your 'god'...
do you get it? that's why there are always these religious wars...people resent it when you tell them that what they believe in is 'false' or 'demon worship'. :angry:


and i told you...bible says many other things...so why don't they follow all those things? why do they have a treaty to not try and spread the word about their 'God' to Jews? Why do they not go to Mecca and try to convert the Muslims there?

some ppl don`t know there`s a thing called bible.

did anyone actually tried to persuade you to become a christian? i hope you don`t think i`m trying to do that becuz i`m not. i respect your decision. nevertheless, i feel obliged to defend myself and my religion. you don`t know about it as much as i do. you seem to only concentrate on the bad stuff that comes alond with catholic church. you don`t seem to know about a lot of miracles that happened (even in the 20th century) or about catholic priests that gave their life for other ppl (like this one, i forgot his name, gave his life for someone else in auschwitz). you seem to not really know much about my religion so i don`t think it`s right that you kinda diss it.

and again, the bible tells the history before Jesus was born and also tells his life`s history. psalms (i hope that`s what you call it in english) are about love and apocalypse is about the end of the world.

[weedy_gonzalez]

as you said, people have always believed in something supernatural...so why do you want them to hear about your god? why can't you "live and let live"? Nobody, as far as I can tell, ever asked a Christian to give up worshipping Christ or tell a Christian that bible is false and jesus is 'demon'! :rolleyes:

did anyone tell you, ordered you to believe in God?

the bible says to spread the word, missionaries do it becuz that`s what the bible says. but they don`t change the ppl in africa. they let them keep their culture alive, they try to combine their culture, their rituals and stuff with believing in God and praying. it`s written IN the bible. and i`d rather you respected that. it`s easy to diss things you`re not familiar with and don`t know about.

neither of us is right or wrong in this whole religion matter becuz this topic is just to difficult for everyone.

i also think buddhism is spreading pretty fast. meditation and yoga and the whole philosophy it`s more common in my country than it used to be :o weird. how did that happen :huh:

[weedy_gonzalez]

are you saying i don't believe in God? or that 1 billion Hindus don't believe in God?
or Africans that worship nature or who do Vodoo don't believe in God? if so...i give up...it's one more win to the close-minded beliefs of chrsitianity and islam! :D

i know for sure that Hinduism's main tenet is: There is only one Truth; sages call It by different names!

i admit that i don`t know about hinduism too much. we were learing about all the major religions in georgraphy last year and what i was taught is that hindu worship many gods and goddesses they see in nature (for example trees, or nature phenomenons, the stars etc, one goddess i know about is called kali - i know about her becuz that`s how my lastname starts *cough* :D ). now i`m not saying it`s bad or anything. as a christian i was taught to respect other ppl`s choices and believes.

[weedy_gonzalez]

that still doesn't tell me what it means! :rolleyes: or what you were trying to say! :rolleyes:


kasia wanted some news articles...here's one web site compiling many articles about the terrorist-ic activities of some who try to convert others to christianity.
http://www.geocities.com/orthopapism/twipra.html

"Church supporting rebels in Tripura"
http://www.hvk.org/articles/0703/137.html
"The NLFT is accused of forcing Tripura’s indigenous tribes to become Christians and give up Hindu forms of worship in areas under their control. Last year, they had issued a ban on the Hindu festivals of Durga Puja and Saraswati Puja. The NLFT manifesto says that they want to expand what they describe as the kingdom of God and Christ in Tripura. The Baptist Church in Tripura was set up by missionaries from New Zealand 60 years ago.

It won only a few thousand converts until 1980 when in the aftermath of the State’s worst ethnic riot, the number of conversions grew."

just one example, but it shows how christian missionaries pounce on poor people or those who are affected by riots or earthquakes or the like...it is pure treachery!

now that`s one side of the medal, and it`s the bad one. everything and everyone has two sides. i wish you could see the other side as well. :cry:

besides, it said 'the baptist church' - baptist aint catholic. :D

[weedy_gonzalez]

http://www.stephen-knapp.com/thirteen_years_of_killings_in_tripura.htm
"In our concern for the violence that takes place daily in India's Northeast region, here is a sample of the typical but atrocious news that comes out of the region due to the insurgency of the terrorist, militant Christian groups that act in the area. These groups, in their promotion of Christianity, continue to kill thousands of local people in their attempt to ban all Hindu practices and convert everyone into Christians."


so next time when your local church asks money to send "missions" to third world countries, you know that if you give money, you are helping in killing thousands of people, or at the least, uprooting millions from their traditions and their local societies...it's an upheavel like none other. it's up to you...don't turn a blind eye to it!

i don`t actually go to church. but anyway, they always write articles about bad things, have you ever read anything nice about missionaries? i believe there are some articles about it but you just want to know the bad side, don`t you?

and if these christians kill, they`re not real christians. catholic churche doesn`t allow killing in the name of God. these christans seem more like islamis who believe in jihad.

[weedy_gonzalez]

and yep..it'll be controversial. but i don't think it will be such a big deal in Mexico since ya'll are all Catholics, and the Pope even is supposedly seen the movie and said that the movie shows the facts: "It is as it was." so...let's see, i guess!

yeah that`s what i thought. it was made to be another movie about Jesus`s life. if you don`t believe in it, don`t watch it (and don`t diss it).

[musiclover]

some ppl don`t know there`s a thing called bible.

did anyone actually tried to persuade you to become a christian?


and you don't know anything about Hinduism, the little that you do know is twisted all out of reality and context :rolleyes: But I don't see Hindu or Buddhist (or even Jewish) missionaries going out to convert whole Christian or Catholic societies...even though there would be ample literature for them to fall back on (example: Bhagvad Gita--the spoken word of Krishna the Supreme God Himself--tells Hindus to worship only Him and to spread His word), etc. Why is it just the Muslims and Christians who feel like they need to convert everyone else to their way of thinking about God?

and yes, many many missionaries from various sects of Christianity have knocked on my door (and i have welcomed them and tried to debate the finer points of their religion! :lol: ) and tried to convert me. One even talked about how I can meet pretty girls at their church! :rolleyes:

[musiclover]

you don`t know about it as much as i do. you seem to only concentrate on the bad stuff that comes alond with catholic church. you don`t seem to know about a lot of miracles that happened (even in the 20th century) or about catholic priests that gave their life for other ppl (like this one, i forgot his name, gave his life for someone else in auschwitz). you seem to not really know much about my religion so i don`t think it`s right that you kinda diss it.

and again, the bible tells the history before Jesus was born and also tells his life`s history. psalms (i hope that`s what you call it in english) are about love and apocalypse is about the end of the world.


okay, I'm not dissing your religion or making it's name sullied. :/ I am only dissing your religion's MAD urge to convert everyone else to it's way of thinking 'cuz i HATE it with all my guts! :angry: :rolleyes:

I say there's nothing wrong with christians, just with the christian missionaries who sow seeds of anger, mistrust, and eventual armed insurrection in poor countries. i already given you some examples of it.


what miracles are you talking of? I diss most miracles 'cuz I don't accept them, it's not against your religion, it's against mine to, and everyone else's. :D

The last "miracle" I know of is the one attributed to Mother Teresa..the "beatified". Why is she being put on a fast-track to sainthood by this Pope? Is it so that it will help to convert the poor Hindus of India?? The "miracle" she is thought to have committed--and the Pope accepted it--was that she cured a lady of a cancer. However, her doctor's submission was never accepted. There are records of this woman having gone to public hospital for like a year of medical attention before her tumor started to reduce. The woman herself is a Hindu! she doesn't even care about all this and says she just prays to Teresa, along with other Hindu deities! :lol: So why do you think the whole Catholic Church is out there denying science and just trying to get this Teresa saint business going? :rolleyes: The Pope was welcomed in India only 3 years ago after every other country he wanted to go to denied him visa! and then he comes to India and tells his ARMY of missionaries to "harvest the souls" of India...which means convert the Hindus. Is this how your fecking repay a host's welcome? :angry: :angry: May be Hindus should act like every other religious community and declare a war to convert everyone else...afterall, we genuinely have the OLDEST religion in the world, a living philosophy of yoga, meditation, vegetarian diet, high learning, oldest written texts, the oldest language of the world, and etc. :rolleyes: But we dont do it. If Poland is starting to have more Buddhists (I doubt you guys have any Hindus :( ) then it's not because there are Buddhist missions out there to actively convert people. It's because the inner souls of some Polish people have arisen and understood the quiet dignities of life. what kind of spirituality does the church offer anyways? there is no history of inner thought, of meditation, or of individual pursuit of God...there has always been hegemony of others, dictats from Rome as to how you will offer prayers and who will offer prayers, etc. :rolleyes:

I'd say I know a lot more about Christianity then you do about Hinduism or Buddhism...
and no, I revere the good things in Christianity also, and if you want good articles on that, you only have to read up on "Christian Century" or "Christianity Today" magazines....something I know I do read from time to time. So I know how it is. Don't tell me I don't know about christianity...I went to a Catholic school for like 10 years! :D


about bible talking "history"...NO, the earth was not formed at 4000BCE, NO, the earth and universe were NOT made in seven days! need I say more?! :rolleyes:
You know, religion is a completely different and separate subject all together. The Christians, sooner you learn this, the better off you and the world will be. The bible is NOT a history book so don't harp on it...just take it as spiritual rather than historical...'cuz everyone knows you can't have a virgin birth! :D
All the same, Hindus never try to claim anything as historically firm, 'cuz our spirituality doesn't depend on it. Neither does yours, really. Except, since your Church is centrally guided, and the leaders have been morons, they have continued with such stupid remarks....that's another reason why some people in the west get attracted to the philosophies offered by buddhism or hinduism or other eastern religions...'cuz they're tired of the Church's fight against knowledge, against Galileo, against Darwin, against archeology, against biology...

[musiclover]

i admit that i don`t know about hinduism too much. we were learing about all the major religions in georgraphy last year and what i was taught is that hindu worship many gods and goddesses they see in nature (for example trees, or nature phenomenons, the stars etc, one goddess i know about is called kali - i know about her becuz that`s how my lastname starts *cough* ). now i`m not saying it`s bad or anything. as a christian i was taught to respect other ppl`s choices and believes.



why do you always say that you're about love and that you're taught to respect others' believes? I'm about love too! :D and I was always taught to respect others' beliefs...as I said, we even have one saying: Truth is ONE, learned people call it by different names.
But sending missions to others is no way or respecting their beliefs, I don't think it is...

and see, teaching about religions in a geography class goes to show that it's not even taught properly....half-knowledge is worse than not knowing anything at all! lol
No, Hindus don't worship many gods and goddesses. Yes, there is Goddess Kali. Hindus believe there is only one God, but that his manifestations are many, and so Hindus have personal relationships with the manifestation they prefer to meditate upon. IT's not as simple as saying 'Hindus worship cows, snakes, and donkeys, and that they have 33 millions gods and goddesses'

And what's more shameful and hurtful is when two years ago Hindus were celebrating Diwali--the annual festival in remembrance of the fight and victory of Good over Evil--the Church was spreading pamphlets online and in their congrigations that Hindus lived in darkness and worshipped demons. :( :cry:

You quote me one Hindu religious leader that has ever said that Jesus is a demon and that Christians don't know they're in darkness!

Even though, as I've said, there are umpteen examples of how Hindu spirituality completely dwarves anything that ever came out of the Church. :rolleyes:

[musiclover]

now that`s one side of the medal, and it`s the bad one. everything and everyone has two sides. i wish you could see the other side as well.

besides, it said 'the baptist church' - baptist aint catholic.


i know there are good sides to church...or any relgions. but you are the one trying to defend that church should be the center of attention, while i'm saying...religion is something between you and your god...and making films such as this 'Passion' is not helpful at all for the overall harmony among various religious societies...


and about the differences between baptist and catholic.....honey, the baptists and upstarts and seem to have a twitchy butt so they try to go to the ends of the earth. but i can give you evidence of what the catholic church has done in india...it will make you sad. it makes me sad and angry... the Inquisitions in Goa and Kerala where thousands of Hindus were killed by captains of the catholic Church...it's gruesome, to say the least.
And the perpetrator of these acts, one "saint" francis Xavier...
so you see, the 'saints' of your Church are some of the biggest murderers that history has ever seen, and i'm sorry to say that. :( :cry:

[CityandColour]

Mel Gibson is an actor.

[weedy_gonzalez]

some ppl don`t know there`s a thing called bible.

did anyone actually tried to persuade you to become a christian?


and you don't know anything about Hinduism, the little that you do know is twisted all out of reality and context :rolleyes: But I don't see Hindu or Buddhist (or even Jewish) missionaries going out to convert whole Christian or Catholic societies...even though there would be ample literature for them to fall back on (example: Bhagvad Gita--the spoken word of Krishna the Supreme God Himself--tells Hindus to worship only Him and to spread His word), etc. Why is it just the Muslims and Christians who feel like they need to convert everyone else to their way of thinking about God?

and yes, many many missionaries from various sects of Christianity have knocked on my door (and i have welcomed them and tried to debate the finer points of their religion! :lol: ) and tried to convert me. One even talked about how I can meet pretty girls at their church! :rolleyes:

and you don`t know anything about catholic church. you`ve not been raised in a catholic country so your points about catholicism are as inaccurate as mine about hinduism.

[weedy_gonzalez]

Mel Gibson is an actor.

wow, really?

[Professor Peedston]

ohhhhh, THAT'S what i've been trying to figure out.

[musiclover]

:lol: :lol:

[blangy]

hi Blanca!! :-)

it's cool we agree on that! :D

and yep..it'll be controversial. but i don't think it will be such a big deal in Mexico since ya'll are all Catholics, and the Pope even is supposedly seen the movie and said that the movie shows the facts: "It is as it was." so...let's see, i guess!

are you doing to go see it, if they show it there? :wink3:


hi again ;)

i was thinking on that the Pope already say it's ok so but i was laughing yesterday when i read there's gonna be just one copy and then they'll see i don't understand that anyway i'll let you know what happen in the following weeks

i don't know if i wanna see it i guess i'll wait to read what the critics say and despite i'm not a catholic or religious person i know the story so i'll decide later :P

[blangy]

blanca should agree on posting IN ZONA HISPANA FORUM :angry:


but i do :sneaky:

[musiclover]

:cool: sounds good!

[Leaver]

but i do

i'm waiting :angry:

[musiclover]

but Blanca should just do whatever makes her happy! :sneaky: :cool:

[Leaver]

me?happy? :rolleyes: :angry:

[StupidIntel]

I'm going to see it. Just because.

[musiclover]

i think the movie will be out next week on Ash Wednesday (which is after Fat Tuesday, rite?)

[StupidIntel]

Yias!

[weedy_gonzalez]

i think the movie will be out next week on Ash Wednesday (which is after Fat Tuesday, rite?)

it`s fat thursday and it was 2 days ago :D

man i ate so many bonuts that i thought i was gonna explode

[weedy_gonzalez]

donuts even

[musiclover]

ummm..i am pretty sure mardi gras means fat tuesday and not fat thursday (though, there may also be a 'fat thursday' festive! ;-) )

dimanche = Sunday
lundi = Monday
mardi = Tuesday
mercredi = Wednesday
jeudi = Thursday
vendredi = Friday
samedi = Saturday

[weedy_gonzalez]

aight. you`ve got fat tuesday and we`ve got fat thursday :D

[musiclover]

for me...everyday of the year is 'fat'...i have balooned to a huge weight by now :dozey: :stunned:

[weedy_gonzalez]

yeah rite

[LiquidSky]

I am interested and looking forward to watch this movie. ;)

[punks united]

um...music clover...i have a question for u...

okay u saw that previous passion movies have been used to kill jews...i wanna know why u think this because i don't see how they are....and about mel being a bigot.....

[sarah**]

okay this thread is 5 pages and i don't have the time right now to read what everybody wrote, i will when i get a chance. but i just wanted to post an article with Mel Gibson's father. he is a disgusting anti-semitic bastard and it saddens me that people believe this bullshit.

this story has been written in a few news organizations but this was the only version i could find.

taken from: http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/165952p-145217c.html

Furor just before Gibson's 'The Passion' opens
By TRACY CONNOR
DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITER
Thursday, February 19th, 2004

A week before Mel Gibson's movie about Jesus Christ hits theaters, his father has gone on an explosive rant against Jews - claiming they fabricated the Holocaust and are conspiring to take over the world.
"They're after one world religion and one world government," Hutton Gibson, 85, said in a radio interview that will air Monday night.

"That's why they've attacked the Catholic Church so strongly, to ultimately take control over it by their doctrine."

In the bizarre interview, Gibson also said Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan should be lynched and called for the government to be overthrown.

The movie star's father has made outrageous statements about the Holocaust and Jewish conspiracies before.

But the timing of his latest comments is certain to fuel the uproar over his son's movie, "The Passion of The Christ," which opens Ash Wednesday.

Some critics say the movie blames Jews for the death of Christ and will provoke anti-Semitism, and they question why Mel Gibson hasn't denounced his father's views.

Hutton Gibson spoke Monday to Steve Feuerstein of "Speak Your Piece!" on WSNR (620 AM), a show syndicated by Talkline, the largest syndicator of Jewish programming.

Some of his most outrageous rants focused on the millions of Jews exterminated by Adolf Hitler.

"They claimed that there were 6.2 million in Poland before the war, and they claimed after the war there were 200,000 - therefore he must have killed 6 million of them," he said. "They simply got up and left! They were all over the Bronx and Brooklyn and Sydney, Australia, and Los Angeles."

He said the Germans did not have enough gas to cremate 6 million people and that the concentration camps were just "work camps."

"It's all - maybe not all fiction - but most of it is," he said.

Gibson repeatedly smeared prominent Jews as money-grubbing power-mongers.

"Greenspan tells us what to do. Someone should take him out and hang him."

He even belittled the Pope's reported endorsement of "The Passion," recounting how Mel referred to the pontiff as an "ass."

Gibson reserved most of his vitriol for Judaism, asking: "Is the Jew still actively anti-Christian? He is, for by being a Jew, he is anti-everyone else."

Mel Gibson's spokesman, Alan Nierob, had no comment on the elder Gibson's tirade.

But Abraham Foxman of the Anti-Defamation League said they were the words of a "classical anti-Semite."

"If it wasn't so sad, it would be funny," he said.

He's troubled by Mel Gibson's failure to condemn his father's beliefs, and pointed to a recent interview where Gibson said his dad never lied to him.

"Well, he's been lying to the world, but it sounds like truth to the son? That's strange," Foxman said.

----------

i can't believe this. as a jew this upsets me how he could make such remarks. i know not everybody feels the way he does, but there are still people that do.

[musiclover]

hi Sarah!! :-)
actually few people said anything about the movie itself...most are ambivalent about it and are willing to give it a try and see for themselves what the big hooplah is about.
the rest of the thread was me and Kasia "fighting"--to use her term--about religion's place in society...and then i kinda started to give her specific examples of how bad the church as been to the progress of humanity etc... lol


punks united...i didn't say he was a bigot..if i remember correctly, i said, he seemed like a bigot.... and the reason i said it was after seeing him answer Diane Sawyer's questions in a blunt/brusque way....
at least i should give it to him that he said that according to his views, followers of other religions could also "reach heaven" or be in the good graces of "God"...

and about passions stories leading to mass killings of Jews...i merely quoted what Diane Sawyer and others had to say about this movie in terms of criticism...

and if everyone knows the story, then why do you need a whole new movie to tell it again? and if you want to tell it, then why not also tell people the real setting of this story. A lot of critics have noted that the movie just shows Jews and Jewish priests "hell"-bent---so to speak---on getting Jesus killed. Instead, the movie could have shown the proper context...

anyways...

[sarah**]

A lot of critics have noted that the movie just shows Jews and Jewish priests "hell"-bent---so to speak---on getting Jesus killed. Instead, the movie could have shown the proper context...


^^
which we know is not the truth.

hello dear
thanks for the sum up, i quickly read through the thread.^

i don't want to see it, but i do want to see it so i can pick it out and see how anti-semitic it is (or isn't :rolleyes: ) but i have a feeling it is.

[sarah**]

Another thing i wanted to say, correct me if i am wrong but Jesus wasn't Christian, he was jewish. The religion didn't come about til many years after his death.

But I may be wrong about that :confused:

[musiclover]

no, AFAIK, you're quite right! :smug: Jesus was in fact a Jewish carpenter...i've seen tens of bumper stickers proclaiming this!
and yep, he himself had said that he hadn't come to establish some new religion.
In fact, some scholars have looked into the 13 years when he wasn't in Nazarety/Bethlehem/Jerusalem...the holy land... and they have research that shows he was in India/Kashmir during that time and had learned from Hindu gurus about yoga and self-consciousness.
That could be why the gospel of Saint Thomas sounds soooo much similar to Hindu/Buddhist teachings!
unfortunately, in the internal church warfare, the st. paul doctrine got upheld in 4th century and the christianity has be practiced that way ever since...which, isn't the same as jesus and his followers lived life for 300+ years...

Gnosis!


and thanks for calling me 'dear'...it sounds so....je ne c'est quoi! :D
*hugs*


so u wanna see it to make sure how it is? or u don't wanna see it 'cuz u don't wanna patronize such a movie? make up ur mind! :lol: :P

[sarah**]

well i do and i don't. i would feel bad criticizing a movie i haven't seen, however i really don't have much of a desire to see it besides for that. the only way i will see it is for free. i refuse to pay money to see it. i think i am going to join the mel gibson boycott :)

[sarah**]

p.s. no prob dear ;) ;)

[punks united]

Okay all i am saying is that the Jews did choose to have Jesus crucified.....they were given the choice between him and this other criminal...and they chose him....he was hated by a lot of orthodox Jews in his time....this movie is supposed to be accurate so i don't see what the big deal about the movie is....and about his bluntness wouldn't u be kind of annoyed with everyone on ur case....?

[';']

there was this church near houston (not in houston though) that you could go with to see the premire of this movie for free. it was sunday and i didnt find out about it 'till moday :angry:


now i won't get to see it until april 6th

[LiquidSky]

^^^HEY I DIDN'T KNOW EITHER....... :angry:

[LiquidSky]

^^^HEY I DIDN'T KNOW EITHER....... :angry:

[musiclover]

oh..lemme guess...was it the Lakewood Baptist Church? :dozey:
it's a monstrocity...and it's got like the biggest membership :stunned:


and no, the movie isn't accurate if it fails to show the reasons and politics behind the crusifixtion of Jesus.
good god, if you're going to believe the story to be true to the last word, then you also have to accept that anything that humans do is related with society/culture/politics/personal ambition, etc. the church itself is the prime example of this. :rolleyes:
if you don't show that, and instead, just show people gunning for Jesus' blood, then you're going to arouse wrong sort of passions in at least some of the folks that go see this movie.

[CityandColour]

Wasn't jesus supposely swearing at god or some crazy shit like that and that's why he was crusified...?

I remembe hearing that somewhere. I know it's not right probably..

[LiquidSky]

Well I just want to go see the movie.... ;) :P

[musiclover]

you'll get more headaches if u go see that movie

*evil laugh*















:lol: :lol: :lol: :P

[Leaver]

:stunned:

[CityandColour]

Have fun with that. :rolleyes:

[LiquidSky]

I wanna go see the movie....what's wrong with wanting to go see the movie?! :o :huh: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[CityandColour]

I didn't say anything was wrong with it. I just said have fun with seeing it. :P :rolleyes: :lol: :dozey: :sneaky:

[LiquidSky]

yeah I know...it's just that it made me laugh 'cause you rolled your eyes.... :lol: :lol: :lol: :P

[musiclover]

:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[LiquidSky]

:embarrased:

[musiclover]

:) :cool:

*hugs liquid girlie*

[';']

oh..lemme guess...was it the Lakewood Baptist Church? :dozey:
it's a monstrocity...and it's got like the biggest membership :stunned:


and no, the movie isn't accurate if it fails to show the reasons and politics behind the crusifixtion of Jesus.
good god, if you're going to believe the story to be true to the last word, then you also have to accept that anything that humans do is related with society/culture/politics/personal ambition, etc. the church itself is the prime example of this. :rolleyes:
if you don't show that, and instead, just show people gunning for Jesus' blood, then you're going to arouse wrong sort of passions in at least some of the folks that go see this movie.

probably was them. not sure



i think i'm just going for to see how mel gibson does in the movie. :stunned:

[CityandColour]

yeah I know...it's just that it made me laugh 'cause you rolled your eyes.... :lol: :lol: :lol: :P

:shocked:

[LiquidSky]

:) :cool:

*hugs liquid girlie*

:angel:

[LiquidSky]

yeah I know...it's just that it made me laugh 'cause you rolled your eyes.... :lol: :lol: :lol: :P

:shocked:


:/

[CityandColour]

:cry:

[LiquidSky]

:confused:

[CityandColour]

:confused:

[LiquidSky]

why were you crying? :confused:

[CityandColour]

I'm not. :)

:P

[LiquidSky]

well good! :P

[CityandColour]

:kiss:

[LiquidSky]

:blush:

[soleil]

I haven't read all seven pages of this, but I just read somewhere (and heard somewhere else too) that Mel spent 25 mil (of his own money) on this project. So I can understand if he's marketing it heavily..

[musiclover]

i read in my local daily the review...it got a 'B', and the daily said that if a person of Mel's caliber makes such a bloodlust kind of movie, that he should also not be surprised if there is some backlash.

[soleil]

It's gotten a lot of bad reviews, but I don't think that'll stop me from watching it.

[musiclover]

yeah...so i noticed! :sneaky:
:lol:

[soleil]

You noticed something?
:confused: :) :confused:

[musiclover]

yep...even though may be dumb, i'm not blind! :) :P :)
and even if i were half-blind, it's not as if you're hiding your interest! :D :P

[soleil]

ahh.. ok. i just never think that people are paying attention to my posts. :confused:

Interesting how he came out with this movie on Ash Wednesday. I'm sure it's not coincidence.

[musiclover]

of course not. it's been known for a long time that it will be the day he'll open it.

and i thot u were making fun of me on the earlier post. i guess we both have low self-esteem sometimes? :idea2: :lol:

[soleil]

nope i wasn't making fun of you.

[musiclover]

okay! :cool:

(((((((((((Gaby))))))))))))))

[soleil]

:)
I'm guessing the parenthesis means hug?

[musiclover]

yo guess correct :-)

[soleil]

:thumbsup: :)

[LiquidSky]

It's gotten a lot of bad reviews, but I don't think that'll stop me from watching it.

yeah it's not stopping me either...or a lot of people........

[musiclover]

:dozey:

[';']

so has anyone seen it yet?

[LiquidSky]

what? you know that's true........

[LiquidSky]

no I haven't yet ginger

[musiclover]

i should meet up with ginger and josce and we should see it together! it'll be fun! :idea2:

[Leaver]

:stunned:

[musiclover]

how did i know that lea would post here with :stunned: icon? :smug:

:wink3: :lol:

[Leaver]

you prefer this one :angry:

[musiclover]

noooooooooo i prefer this one :kiss:

((((((((((((lea))))))))))))) :sneaky:

[Leaver]

qui qui qui sont les snorkis
qui qui mais qui :dozey:

[LiquidSky]

wait! You don't want to do that! 'cause it might bring the devil out of me! it does it everytime I go to church..... :stunned: :stunned: :stunned:

[musiclover]

what's with this 'qui' snorkis? :huh: :huh: :/

[LiquidSky]

wait! You don't want to do that! 'cause it might bring the devil out of me! it does it everytime I go to church..... :stunned: :stunned: :stunned:

[Leaver]

hahahahaha :rolleyes:
boombo boombo petit auomobile bile
tu parrais si fragile gile sous tonn drole de capot bombooobo :stunned:

[musiclover]

:thinking:

[Leaver]

quand tu respires une fleur ca fait boum boum dans ton coeur :lol:

[mycdplayerisbroke]

yo soy alto
el es gordo
ella es morena
nosotros somos chistosos
ellos son bajos

[Leaver]

que pudes hacer apra ti, don eric? :rolleyes:

[musiclover]

when u breathe a flower, ur heart goes boum boum? :sneaky:
and what about when i see lea's pics? :idea2:

[LiquidSky]

:lol: :lol:

[Leaver]

when u breathe a flower, ur heart goes boum boum?

great :cool:

and what about when i see lea's pics?

it's me or mister is sado masochist :confused:

[musiclover]

huh? :stunned:

[Leaver]

now i guess you like to do nighmares..
sees my pics = nightmares :stunned:

[musiclover]

what is 'sado masochist'? :huh:

[Leaver]

argh
i have many thing to explain you...
so for a start do you know where babies come from? :idea2: :sneaky:

[musiclover]

ok, i'm going now.

[Leaver]

:(

[musiclover]

what? it's getting late here...and i'm sure there, it must be past mid-night, in fact, more like 1:00 am....you should sleep, mon amie! :kiss:

[Leaver]

it's 3.03am :dozey:

[musiclover]

u guy s are 7 hours ahead? :stunned: same as German time? i thought only 5 or 6 hours...

[Kettercat]

Apparently a woman died of a heart attack during this movie last night :stunned:

[el_scorcho]

This movie came out yesterday and it's already made 20 million dollars. :o

[musiclover]

Apparently a woman died of a heart attack during this movie last night :stunned:

really? :o where?

almost all the reviews i've seen or read say that this movie is 2+ hours of gore and blood....and that depending on who the viewer is, it will make your cry in disgust or make you cry in how someone died for you 2 thousand years ago....oh and all reviews i've read caution that this may not be for kids!

[musiclover]

oh nevermind...i found that out myself...it's on the first page of yahoo news...
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=638&ncid=762&e=1&u=/nm/20040226/en_nm/leisure_passion_dc

"In Wichita, Kansas, one middle-aged woman died of an apparent heart attack while watching the film's climactic crucifixion scene, a local television station reported."

[punks united]

yikes!!

[musiclover]

those innocent Kansans! :lol:

[punks united]

okay...

[LiquidSky]

Apparently a woman died of a heart attack during this movie last night :stunned:

Are you serious? :stunned: :huh: :( :stunned:

[musiclover]

ermm....i already even wrote about it...some woman in Wichita... :rolleyes:

[el_scorcho]

How awful.. :o

[musiclover]

and foolish...in a certain way.

[punks united]

why is it foolish?

[musiclover]

most people don't get heart attacks all of a sudden, without prior ill health. she should have known not to go...considering such a big buzz about the gore in this movie :dozey:

[punks united]

well it's not like u know hey i am going to have a heart attack...besides maybe it was her time...i dunno

[musiclover]

i dunno if people have their 'time'.

i do feel sorry for her passing away like that. :confused: :/

RIP

[LiquidSky]

ppl should make mental notes about that....


*makes mental note*

[Leaver]

:dead:

[blangy]

i've decided not to see this movie it's too bloddy and besides the church here approved so what's the point??? i don't think it's gonna be a controversial movie here well who knows we'll be able to see until the end of march :rolleyes:

but i'm not gonna :P

[punks united]

about what?? dying?

[LiquidSky]

I am actually gonna go see....even though my mother already said not to :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: no actually she didn't say anything... ;)

[punks united]

me too...i don't think it is anti-semetic and did hear the black panthers had a protest that they were mad because jesus is white in the movie and they claim that he was not..

[musiclover]

obviously he wasn't! :lol:

if anything, Jesus would have west Asian looks...sorta like how Iranians/north Indians look

[punks united]

no duh but they are saying he is black

[';']

it's like riding a rollercoaster or what.

you have to have good heart conditions and all that. can only be healthy to watch it. :confused: :lol:

[punks united]

yeah.....but that's not to say that u are going to have one...even if u have good heart conditons

[';']

lets not get all technical here.

i was just saying :P



anyways i might go see it this weekend :D

[musiclover]

hmmm...the black panthers should all become Hindus...we get to imagine God in our own personal ways, whatever lets us medidate upon His name. :)

[Leaver]

:snore: :snore: :snore:
:embarrased:

[punks united]

i have a lot of friends who are hindus :)

but black panthers are very extreme....i think malcolm x was one

[Leaver]

i don't undersatnd a thing about this conversation
*runs*

[musiclover]

yeah...i know about them...true, about extreme...

you've got Hindu friends? where are you?--i bet there aren't any/many hindus in greenbow, alabama! :D :lol:

[punks united]

lol....i am somewhere in the south....hiding from tom hanks :)

and yes i do have hindu friends, catholic friends, mormon friends

[musiclover]

okay...i'll have to come find you...i love southern accents! :sneaky: :lol: although, i always fear southern girls after watching Gone With The Wind... :lol:

[punks united]

lol... ms. scarlett that's me jk.... i'll go back to terra after all tomorrow's another day!

[musiclover]

ARGHHHHH yeah...tomorrow's another day! :rolleyes: why wudn't she have Rhett Butler!! :angry: :rolleyes:







ahh..i feel better after that outburst! :D :P

[punks united]

cuz she was a stubborn little brat... :P

[musiclover]

true that! :P

the guy who plays her husband passed away recently...and TIME had quoted him saying he'd wished to be portrayed more macho! poor guy's entire career after that movie was done playing wimpy guys! :lol:

[punks united]

u mean Clark Gable....i think he is cute in gone with the wind :)

i didn't know he died

[musiclover]

nooooo not him...the other guy, i forget his name or the character he plays...he ends up going to fight in the Civil War and ends up dying or crippled or something...it's been a while since i saw the movie

and yeah...sure C.G was good looking.

another C.G...Cary Grant...do u like him? funny actor...

[punks united]

i love Cary !!! and Fred Astaire!! i saw royal wedding, the movie where he dances on the ceiling.

[musiclover]

Cary Grant was gay...if u didn't know! :sneaky: :lol:
he married several times, but ended up divorcing each time...poor fellow.

[punks united]

how does that make him gay?

[musiclover]

that doesn't make him gay. he was already gay...just saying that, in case u didn't know it... :)

[punks united]

ahhhh i don't think he was unless he said it himself??

[musiclover]

it's in his biography, i believe. and nope, he didn't 'come out' at that time...

[punks united]

oh that's too bad!

[musiclover]

:lol: :lol: why too bad? i guess too bad for girls... :D

[punks united]

uh yeah....but he is too old anyhow :)

but then there is always Charlie Chaplin :)

i love that guy!

[musiclover]

:P :rolleyes: