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GazeboflossUK
28-06-2006, 01:07 AM
Israel army launches Gaza assault

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41820000/jpg/_41820370_kerem_gi310x.jpg

Israeli troops began their offensive at the Kerem Shalom crossing
The Israeli army has begun a ground offensive in southern Gaza to try to gain the release of an Israeli soldier by Palestinian militants.
Israeli aircraft earlier bombed bridges and a power plant in the Gaza Strip.

Cpl Gilad Shalit was abducted by Palestinian militants during a raid on an Israeli post near Gaza on Sunday.

Israel had warned of a massive military assault if he was not freed and its tanks have been massing along the border with Gaza for several days.

It is unclear how many troops are being used in the incursion, launched from the Kerem Shalom crossing near southern Gaza.

The assault on Gaza marks Israel's first major incursion into the territory since it withdrew its soldiers and settlers last year, ending almost 40 years of occupation.

'Limited operation'

The Israeli forces are reported to have taken up positions near the town of Rafah, shortly after passing Gaza's disused international airport.

The Associated Press news agency quotes Palestinian witnesses as saying the soldiers were moving under the cover of tank shells.

Palestinian militants anticipating an Israeli assault have been erecting barricades and preparing hideouts and ambush positions.

A spokeswoman for the Israeli armed forces said they had not encountered any resistance from the Palestinians.

Israeli military officials have been quoted as saying Prime Minister Ehud Olmert had backed a "limited operation" targeting the "terrorist infrastructure".

Militants' demands

Hours before the ground assault, the Israeli jets attacked three bridges and a power plant in the Gaza Strip.

The Israeli military confirmed that the first strike on the bridge was aimed at stopping Palestinian militants from moving Cpl Shalit.

The strike on the plant plunged much of Gaza into darkness. It is not yet clear if there were any casualties.

The soldier was captured when Palestinian militants burrowed under the Gaza border and attacked an Israeli army position, killing two soldiers.

Israel has rejected the militants' demands for Palestinian women and children held in Israeli jails to be freed in exchange for information about the soldier.

Matter-Eater Lad
28-06-2006, 01:32 AM
Sounds like things are going to get even more violent over there.

ugadawg5
28-06-2006, 02:16 AM
well if the palestinians did not dig a tunnel and kidnap an israeli soldier, this offensive would not be going on.

brandon313
28-06-2006, 03:51 AM
they will always fight there ugadawg5 if its not one thing happening its another. cant blame JUST the palestinians.

ugadawg5
28-06-2006, 05:10 AM
they will always fight there ugadawg5 if its not one thing happening its another. cant blame JUST the palestinians.

Of course I can. the palestinians always initiate the violence. they send a suicide bomber to blow up a cafe or bus full of men, women, and children, and the Israelis counter by taking out their leaders, not their women and children. the Israelis have sacrificed land in the Gaza Strip and West Bank to appease the Palestinians, but when the Palestinians take over the West Bank, they volley RPGs into Jewish settlements in Israel.

So yes, I can blame the Palestinians. Islam is a violent religion which has nothing but hatred for Jews. They do not want peace. They want to wipe every last Jew off of the Earth. Do not blame the Israelis for responding to another unwarrented attack by the Palestinians.

brandon313
28-06-2006, 05:17 AM
lets not forget we basically TOOK their land in 1948 to relocate the jews. They are still upset over that.

but what you say about islam is absolutely not true, the OVERWHELMING MAJORITY of islamic people are very peaceful, same with Muslims. Its just a bunch of people giving EVERYONE a bad name.....hey kind of like the Bush administration! haha:sneaky:

ugadawg5
28-06-2006, 06:16 AM
nope I am right about Islam and Muslims. Look at the world conflicts right now:

Sudan: The Janjaweed militia that are killing Sudanese civilians: Muslims
Iran: Islamic Government
Al Qaida: Islam
Hamas: Islam
Chechnyan Rebels who shoot children in the back as they run to their mothers after raiding a school in Beslan, Russia: Muslims

Peaceful religion my ass.

Matter-Eater Lad
28-06-2006, 08:18 AM
nope I am right about Islam and Muslims. Look at the world conflicts right now:

Sudan: The Janjaweed militia that are killing Sudanese civilians: Muslims
Iran: Islamic Government
Al Qaida: Islam
Hamas: Islam
Chechnyan Rebels who shoot children in the back as they run to their mothers after raiding a school in Beslan, Russia: Muslims

Peaceful religion my ass.

I agree with you most the time but not here. Islam now is very violent, but that is because the religion has been hijacked by extremist. The same thing happened to christianity in the middle ages with the crusades. people take religion and make it into what they want and use it for political reasons. most muslism are good, peaceful people. but there are a growing number who are becoming extremist.

In Israel however the Palestinians are the ones doing the bad thing. They keep starting voilence. Israel has a right to defend itself from terrorist.

Redundancy
28-06-2006, 09:08 AM
Of course I can. the palestinians always initiate the violence. they send a suicide bomber to blow up a cafe or bus full of men, women, and children, and the Israelis counter by taking out their leaders, not their women and children. the Israelis have sacrificed land in the Gaza Strip and West Bank to appease the Palestinians, but when the Palestinians take over the West Bank, they volley RPGs into Jewish settlements in Israel.

So yes, I can blame the Palestinians. Islam is a violent religion which has nothing but hatred for Jews. They do not want peace. They want to wipe every last Jew off of the Earth. Do not blame the Israelis for responding to another unwarrented attack by the Palestinians.

hahahahahahahahahaha shows how you people have no idea whats really going on...

Matter-Eater Lad
28-06-2006, 09:16 AM
hahahahahahahahahaha shows how you people have no idea whats really going on...

Shows he knows more then you...

Redundancy
28-06-2006, 09:23 AM
Shows he knows more then you...

i live in the middle of all this :P so i doubt that... but i kindda almost agree with everything u said in ur last post Nick(?)

Bijeli_Miš
28-06-2006, 12:38 PM
the OVERWHELMING MAJORITY of islamic people are very peaceful, same with Muslims.Eh :\ Islam=religion Muslim=a follower of islam
So islamic and muslim people are the same thing.

Tulac
28-06-2006, 12:48 PM
well if the palestinians did not dig a tunnel and kidnap an israeli soldier, this offensive would not be going on.

Well if Israely wouldn't confiscate and take away their land which was by no rights Israely, there wouldn't be any of the problems going on...

GazeboflossUK
28-06-2006, 02:59 PM
Israel has a terrible government and everybody knows this.

And for this talk about why Islam is supposed to be SO violent.....

All this "EXTREMIST" Islamic "Terror" is all instigated and inflammed by the west (US, UK).
The US/UK have strategically built up hatred for the west in the middle east so that the possibility of the average person growing up there hating the west is massively grown.
Therefore - they are willing to fight on the 'orders' of some fake leader (i.e Osama Bin Laden, Abu Musab Al Zarqawi) who is controlled by the US/UK..

So they fight with themselves and with us and our governments then happily come along to try and save the day with a fucking war, while all the time taking control of the county they are occupying by either taking control of pipeline building, stealing opium or ushering in a phony government....

AND they take even more control of our countries by passing laws and acts which have screwed us out of so many freedoms and rights.



We gotta have someone to hate and fight against right?
And some people are going along with this?

Wake up and smell the burning of the constitution.

Maldini
28-06-2006, 03:50 PM
Of course I can. the palestinians always initiate the violence. they send a suicide bomber to blow up a cafe or bus full of men, women, and children, and the Israelis counter by taking out their leaders, not their women and children. the Israelis have sacrificed land in the Gaza Strip and West Bank to appease the Palestinians, but when the Palestinians take over the West Bank, they volley RPGs into Jewish settlements in Israel.

So yes, I can blame the Palestinians. Islam is a violent religion which has nothing but hatred for Jews. They do not want peace. They want to wipe every last Jew off of the Earth. Do not blame the Israelis for responding to another unwarrented attack by the Palestinians.


Really

I think you didn't see how Israel kill,kidnap and destroy everyday in the occupied land and you wan't any respones from the Palestinians.SHAME

Maldini
28-06-2006, 04:01 PM
nope I am right about Islam and Muslims. Look at the world conflicts right now:

Sudan: The Janjaweed militia that are killing Sudanese civilians: Muslims
Iran: Islamic Government
Al Qaida: Islam
Hamas: Islam
Chechnyan Rebels who shoot children in the back as they run to their mothers after raiding a school in Beslan, Russia: Muslims

Peaceful religion my ass.



brandon313 told you Israel occupied their land and you say you alright

1- Who make AL Qaida
2- Who make and support Janjaweed
3- Who want to conflict with Iran


America


4- What Russia did with Chechnyan people


How you accuse the Islam and said it's a violent relegion and I challenge you if you know anything about Islam.Keep away from it

Maldini
28-06-2006, 04:05 PM
I agree with you most the time but not here. Islam now is very violent, but that is because the religion has been hijacked by extremist. The same thing happened to christianity in the middle ages with the crusades. people take religion and make it into what they want and use it for political reasons. most muslism are good, peaceful people. but there are a growing number who are becoming extremist.

In Israel however the Palestinians are the ones doing the bad thing. They keep starting voilence. Israel has a right to defend itself from terrorist.


I expect it from you and if I ask you HOW ISRAEL STATE ESTABLISHED ?

You just ignore the question and keeping posting your lies

Maldini
28-06-2006, 04:10 PM
Shows he knows more then you...


In fact you didn't know anything OR you defend for the nugatory and injustice

Maldini
28-06-2006, 04:15 PM
Of course I can. the palestinians always initiate the violence. they send a suicide bomber to blow up a cafe or bus full of men, women, and children, and the Israelis counter by taking out their leaders, not their women and children. the Israelis have sacrificed land in the Gaza Strip and West Bank to appease the Palestinians, but when the Palestinians take over the West Bank, they volley RPGs into Jewish settlements in Israel.

So yes, I can blame the Palestinians. Islam is a violent religion which has nothing but hatred for Jews. They do not want peace. They want to wipe every last Jew off of the Earth. Do not blame the Israelis for responding to another unwarrented attack by the Palestinians.



If Israel know that Gaza Strip their lands,I mean their real land they won't sacrificed it because they know themselves they are [occupied people ] .I didn't saw a state sacrificed their lands

Maldini
28-06-2006, 04:17 PM
Isreal has a terrible government and everybody knows this.

And for this talk about why Islam is supposed to be SO violent.....

All this "EXTREMIST" Islamic "Terror" is all instigated and inflammed by the west (US, UK).
The US/UK have strategically built up hatred for the west in the middle east so that the possibility of the average person growing up there hating the west is massively grown.
Therefore - they are willing to fight on the 'orders' of some fake leader (i.e Osama Bin Laden, Abu Musab Al Zarqawi) who is controlled by the US/UK..

So they fight with themselves and with us and our governments then happily come along to try and save the day with a fucking war, while all the time taking control of the county they are occupying by either taking control of pipeline building, stealing opium or ushering in a phony government....

AND they take even more control of our countries by passing laws and acts which have screwed us out of so many freedoms and rights.



We gotta have someone to hate and fight against right?
And some people are going along with this?

Wake up and smell the burning of the constitution.


RIGHT,and if they didn't know it so they must didn't post anything about it

Matter-Eater Lad
28-06-2006, 04:39 PM
Well if Israely wouldn't confiscate and take away their land which was by no rights Israely, there wouldn't be any of the problems going on...

They were given this land, and there werent many people on the land when they got it.....they have a right to it.

Matter-Eater Lad
28-06-2006, 04:40 PM
Really

I think you didn't see how Israel kill,kidnap and destroy everyday in the occupied land and you wan't any respones from the Palestinians.SHAME

Yeah defending itself and going and killing terrorist is evil and all.....yeah...

Matter-Eater Lad
28-06-2006, 04:41 PM
i live in the middle of all this :P so i doubt that... but i kindda almost agree with everything u said in ur last post Nick(?)

Damnit i should have kept my mout shut.

Matter-Eater Lad
28-06-2006, 04:42 PM
brandon313 told you Israel occupied their land and you say you alright

1- Who make AL Qaida
2- Who make and support Janjaweed
3- Who want to conflict with Iran


America


4- What Russia did with Chechnyan people


How you accuse the Islam and said it's a violent relegion and I challenge you if you know anything about Islam.Keep away from it

america didnt make al qaida muslim extremist did.....the conlfict with iran is irans fault, for being the BIGGEST state sponser of terrorist and wanting nukes.

Matter-Eater Lad
28-06-2006, 04:43 PM
I expect it from you and if I ask you HOW ISRAEL STATE ESTABLISHED ?

You just ignore the question and keeping posting your lies

I know how israel was established.

p.s. if i was posting lies you'd know it.....but sadly i am not.

Matter-Eater Lad
28-06-2006, 04:44 PM
In fact you didn't know anything OR you defend for the nugatory and injustice

Oh but i am....the negatory injustice to israel and the jews by the WORLD and all the racist in the muslim countries.

Tulac
28-06-2006, 05:28 PM
They were given this land, and there werent many people on the land when they got it.....they have a right to

By whom were they given the land, by their tanks and bombs? Come off it!

Oh look at that there aren't many people on Alaska, that means I have the right to occupy it? Great...

brandon313
28-06-2006, 07:02 PM
we cant just give someone land which isnt ours to give. sure there werent many people there, BUT there were people there, and it was their land. We (being the allies post WW2) just basically told them to leave because we were relocating the jews of Europe

Ambergris
28-06-2006, 09:11 PM
and the Israelis counter by taking out their leaders, not their women and children. the Israelis have sacrificed land in the Gaza Strip and West Bank to appease the Palestinians, but when the Palestinians take over the West Bank, they volley RPGs into Jewish settlements in Israel.

What?? have you been into news reciently?
During the reciently internal conflicts in Palestinian politics, before the recent Palestinian atack there were many non-selective bombings made by Israel in Palestinian territories killing many innocent civilians.

Btw, its not like they sacrified land for the Palestinians, those lands were usurped first by Israel!

I agree with Brandon313, the conflict is between 2 and its silly to blame only Palestinians for this very terrible conflict.

GazeboflossUK
28-06-2006, 09:20 PM
Yes, your right.

Ambergris
28-06-2006, 09:28 PM
brandon313 told you Israel occupied their land and you say you alright

1- Who make AL Qaida
2- Who make and support Janjaweed
3- Who want to conflict with Iran



America


This is very true! its obvious in history that mainly the US. helped to destabilize the whole region (helping Israel to expand and usurp more and more muslim lands, supporting Sadam to invade Iran, also in Afganisthan...) and now there's this terrible conflict and Washington leaders just wash their hands pointing at those who they wanna show as the evil power in all this.

Maldini
29-06-2006, 03:05 AM
They were given this land, and there werent many people on the land when they got it.....they have a right to it.


Really,ok I will take Nevada Desert and establish a country because there aren't many people live there;)

You will make everybody laugh at you

Maldini
29-06-2006, 03:09 AM
america didnt make al qaida muslim extremist did.....the conlfict with iran is irans fault, for being the BIGGEST state sponser of terrorist and wanting nukes.


I think we discussed it before and all your evidence GONE WITH THE WIND,but mine NOT

Matter-Eater Lad
29-06-2006, 05:54 AM
This is very true! its obvious in history that mainly the US. helped to destabilize the whole region (helping Israel to expand and usurp more and more muslim lands, supporting Sadam to invade Iran, also in Afganisthan...) and now there's this terrible conflict and Washington leaders just wash their hands pointing at those who they wanna show as the evil power in all this.

yeah...stopping hitler.....and japan....the soviet union...were the problem all along...good one...

Matter-Eater Lad
29-06-2006, 05:55 AM
Really,ok I will take Nevada Desert and establish a country because there aren't many people live there;)

You will make everybody laugh at you

theres a ton more people living in nevada then there was in palestine. so that really does not apply to the argument...

Matter-Eater Lad
29-06-2006, 05:56 AM
I think we discussed it before and all your evidence GONE WITH THE WIND,but mine NOT

alquiad was not america's doing. it was all muslim extremist who formed it....please know your fucking history.

Matter-Eater Lad
29-06-2006, 05:57 AM
By whom were they given the land, by their tanks and bombs? Come off it!

Oh look at that there aren't many people on Alaska, that means I have the right to occupy it? Great...

the UN.....they didnt take israel witha military.....

Matter-Eater Lad
29-06-2006, 05:59 AM
What?? have you been into news reciently?
During the reciently internal conflicts in Palestinian politics, before the recent Palestinian atack there were many non-selective bombings made by Israel in Palestinian territories killing many innocent civilians.

Btw, its not like they sacrified land for the Palestinians, those lands were usurped first by Israel!

I agree with Brandon313, the conflict is between 2 and its silly to blame only Palestinians for this very terrible conflict.


both are to blame..but one side far more then the other. and that side is the palestinians. lets not forget there was NO push for a palestinians homeland until the "evil" jews had a nation...

twistedlogic149
29-06-2006, 07:34 AM
both are to blame..but one side far more then the other. and that side is the palestinians. lets not forget there was NO push for a palestinians homeland until the "evil" jews had a nation...

He... has a point. *craps pants* Wow, never thought I'd say that.

I mean this war is going to rage on for probably decades: there's no point in really trying to make peace. I'm all for seeking out the peaceful solution to things... but not in this situation. It's futile, and everyone knows it. The roots of the conflict run back to Biblical times... and people just want to stop the fighting with a pen and a piece of paper? It's futile.

Matter-Eater Lad
29-06-2006, 08:48 AM
He... has a point. *craps pants* Wow, never thought I'd say that.

I mean this war is going to rage on for probably decades: there's no point in really trying to make peace. I'm all for seeking out the peaceful solution to things... but not in this situation. It's futile, and everyone knows it. The roots of the conflict run back to Biblical times... and people just want to stop the fighting with a pen and a piece of paper? It's futile.

Peace isnt going to happen. with terrorist on both sides and both sides hating each other so much, its not going to happen. it would be like getting the kkk and the black panther to coexist peacefuly

Matter-Eater Lad
29-06-2006, 09:07 AM
Really,ok I will take Nevada Desert and establish a country because there aren't many people live there;)

You will make everybody laugh at you

What are the facts?

The legitimacy of Israel. The state of Israel was legally created out of the dismemberment of the Ottoman Empire at the end of World War I. The area was desolate – desert and swamp – with some small towns and a few inhabitants, many of them nomads. The inhabitants, if they thought about it at all, considered themselves Syrians. The legitimacy of Israel arises from the Balfour Declaration issued by the British, who were given the mandate over the area by the League of Nations. Jews have lived in the country since Biblical times. The Arabs from the surrounding areas were lured to “Palestine” by the industry and prosperity that the Jews brought to the region. Envy, hatred, and religious fanaticism turned the Arabs against the Jews. In bloody outrages, horrible massacres, killings and rapes, the Arabs tried to dislodge the Jews, but were unable to do so.

In 1947, the British, having tired of the trouble and the bloodshed, resigned their mandate. That same year, the United Nations mandated partitioning of the territory. The Jews, though disappointed, accepted the partition. The Arabs rejected it out of hand and launched war against Israel. The armies of five Arab countries invaded the nascent state. Following the exhortations of the invaders, the Arab residents got out of the way hoping to return after victory was attained. They could then reclaim their property and that of the Jews, all of whom would have been killed or would have fled. That and that alone is the source of the Arab “refugee problem.”

Had the Arabs accepted the UN partition plan, there would now have been a state of “Palestine” for the last 58 years. They might have attained a similar level of prosperity, advancement, and development as Israel, which, small though it is, is today in almost every regard one of the world’s most advanced countries.
Not the only refugees. There is dispute about the number of those refugees. Best estimates are that about 650,000 people fled. But those Arabs are not the only refugees of the 1948 war of Israel’s independence. About 800,000 Jews from Arab countries – from Morocco and Algeria to Iraq and Yemen – fled or were driven out of their home countries, where they had lived for centuries. Most of them left with just the clothes on their backs, leaving land, property, businesses, and wealth created over generations. Most fled to the newly-born Jewish state. They were received with open arms, immediately and fully integrated into Israeli society. They now form about 50 per cent of the population of Israel.


http://www.factsandlogic.org/ad_100.html

GazeboflossUK
29-06-2006, 11:58 AM
HAHA, I love how you us the factsandlogic.org.....

you always ramble on about your supposed facts and logic.......now you have somewhere you get all your info from...


hahaha....great.

Ambergris
29-06-2006, 01:11 PM
The invasion already started, Israel forces are going crazy!! they're even bombing Syria...

This is going to be very bad.

Maldini
29-06-2006, 03:54 PM
theres a ton more people living in nevada then there was in palestine. so that really does not apply to the argument...



ok,but I'm sure that Americans don't live in every square meter so I will take the abondon place and establish my own country

Maldini
29-06-2006, 04:09 PM
alquiad was not america's doing. it was all muslim extremist who formed it....please know your fucking history.


At first,I will ignore all your insults to me because my morals didn't allow me to return it to you

So,who armed and support AL-Quiada against USSR. Everyone know that America

If you denied this fact,it's up to you and you will be the only one in the world who denied that

Maldini
29-06-2006, 04:38 PM
What are the facts?

The legitimacy of Israel. The state of Israel was legally created out of the dismemberment of the Ottoman Empire at the end of World War I. The area was desolate – desert and swamp – with some small towns and a few inhabitants, many of them nomads. The inhabitants, if they thought about it at all, considered themselves Syrians. The legitimacy of Israel arises from the Balfour Declaration issued by the British, who were given the mandate over the area by the League of Nations. Jews have lived in the country since Biblical times. The Arabs from the surrounding areas were lured to “Palestine” by the industry and prosperity that the Jews brought to the region. Envy, hatred, and religious fanaticism turned the Arabs against the Jews. In bloody outrages, horrible massacres, killings and rapes, the Arabs tried to dislodge the Jews, but were unable to do so.

In 1947, the British, having tired of the trouble and the bloodshed, resigned their mandate. That same year, the United Nations mandated partitioning of the territory. The Jews, though disappointed, accepted the partition. The Arabs rejected it out of hand and launched war against Israel. The armies of five Arab countries invaded the nascent state. Following the exhortations of the invaders, the Arab residents got out of the way hoping to return after victory was attained. They could then reclaim their property and that of the Jews, all of whom would have been killed or would have fled. That and that alone is the source of the Arab “refugee problem.”

Had the Arabs accepted the UN partition plan, there would now have been a state of “Palestine” for the last 58 years. They might have attained a similar level of prosperity, advancement, and development as Israel, which, small though it is, is today in almost every regard one of the world’s most advanced countries.
Not the only refugees. There is dispute about the number of those refugees. Best estimates are that about 650,000 people fled. But those Arabs are not the only refugees of the 1948 war of Israel’s independence. About 800,000 Jews from Arab countries – from Morocco and Algeria to Iraq and Yemen – fled or were driven out of their home countries, where they had lived for centuries. Most of them left with just the clothes on their backs, leaving land, property, businesses, and wealth created over generations. Most fled to the newly-born Jewish state. They were received with open arms, immediately and fully integrated into Israeli society. They now form about 50 per cent of the population of Israel.


http://www.factsandlogic.org/ad_100.html


What a lies


At first, Belfour or Great Britain didn't own Palestine to make a declaration to allow the Jews to take a land of other nation to live in it.

If the Jews lived in this country since the Biblical times.It's not mean to take it like Muslims lived more than 1000 years in Spain but it didn't mean to take a place in Spain to establish a countery;)


About the prosperity of Israel.If you know geography you wiil know that Israel haven't any natural sources anything to make prosperity.

But prosperity came frome America to support Israel like the American military support of Israel,because the Jews Taking Over America

Arabe didn't accepted the UN partition plan because this is our land and Israel who is bring Jews from all over the world to make a strong country because the lack of population density beside the big of population density of Arab Nation


I will show you the Dream of Israel


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f1/Greater_Israels.jpg
The Greater Israel



In the above context, Greater Israel would comprise, roughly, modern-day Palestine, Jordan and Lebanon,much of Egypt,Syria,Iraq, Saudi Arabia and Kuwait as well as parts of Turkey

Matter-Eater Lad
29-06-2006, 07:47 PM
What a lies


At first, Belfour or Great Britain didn't own Palestine to make a declaration to allow the Jews to take a land of other nation to live in it.

If the Jews lived in this country since the Biblical times.It's not mean to take it like Muslims lived more than 1000 years in Spain but it didn't mean to take a place in Spain to establish a countery;)


About the prosperity of Israel.If you know geography you wiil know that Israel haven't any natural sourcesor anything to make prosperity.

But prosperity came frome America to support Israel like the American military support of Israel,because the Jews Taking Over America

Arabe didn't accepted the UN partition plan because this is our land and Israel who is bring Jews from all over the world to make a strong country because the lake of population density beside the big of population density of Arab Nation


I will show you the Dream of Israel


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f1/Greater_Israels.jpg
The Greater Israel



In the above context, Greater Israel would comprise, roughly, modern-day Palestine, Jordan and Lebanon,much of Egypt,Syria,Iraq, Saudi Arabia and Kuwait as well as parts of Turkey



the truth hurts....but hey they could have had their palestine if they really wanted it...but sadly they dont.

Matter-Eater Lad
29-06-2006, 07:49 PM
ok,but I'm sure that Americans don't live in every square meter so I will take the abondon place and establish my own country

it woudnt be bad if it was won in a war and done legally......but thats not the case. israel didnt just walk in and claim the land for itself. it was done legally.

Matter-Eater Lad
29-06-2006, 07:52 PM
At first,I will ignore all your insults to me because my morals didn't allow me to return it to you

So,who armed and support AL-Quiada against USSR. Everyone know that America

If you denied this fact,it's up to you and you will be the only one in the world who denied that

again i ask you to know your history before you speak. al quiada was made up by all muslim extremist. america did not fund or arm them. we armed the taliban against ussr.

you are one of the only people in this world to believe otherwise.

brandon313
29-06-2006, 10:42 PM
He is right about the Taliban and the USSR, the Taliban was a FORMER CIA funded and trained unit used to carry out missions against the Soviet Union during the invasion of Afghanistan in the mid 80's.

This subject will never be calm in any form of discussion. Both sides believe their point VERY strongly.

In my personal opinion, the only reason the US backs Israel is because people in high places (mostly Jewish people) feel the need to help aide them, hence keeping us in the middle of the fighting.
Almost all extremists hate us because.......why? WE BACK ISRAEL. its so simple, almost ALL of the hatred that fuels the Muslims and terrorists is based in the Israel Palestine situation. If we stopped aiding Israel, i garuntee alot of our problems dealing with Terrorism and Muslim hatred against us would cease. Im not saying all of them, but im just saying, most of the people against us are against us because we are on Israels side....so there you go

GazeboflossUK
30-06-2006, 01:01 AM
And as for the Al-Qaeda thing......

It too IS a CIA controlled group. Used as blame for almost everything.

The origins of al-Qaeda can be traced to a few weeks after the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan in 1979, when a cadre of non-Afghani, Arab Muslim fighters joined the largely United States and Pakistan-funded Afghan mujāhidīn anti-Russian resistance movement (a guerrilla war against Soviet occupation forces and the Soviet-backed Afghan government).

Before the United States invaded Afghanistan, the Taliban offered to turn over bin Laden to a neutral country for trial if the United States would provide evidence of bin Laden's complicity in the attacks. President Bush responded by saying "We know he's guilty. Turn him over" and soon thereafter the United States invaded Afghanistan and, together with the Afghan Northern Alliance, deposed the Taliban government.

According to the controversial BBC documentary The Power of Nightmares, al-Qaeda is so weakly linked together that it is hard to say it exists apart from Osama bin Laden and a small clique of close associates. The lack of any significant numbers of convicted al-Qaeda members despite a large number of arrests on terrorism charges is cited by the documentary as a reason to doubt whether a widespread entity that meets the description of al-Qaeda exists at all.

Matter-Eater Lad
30-06-2006, 06:15 AM
He is right about the Taliban and the USSR, the Taliban was a FORMER CIA funded and trained unit used to carry out missions against the Soviet Union during the invasion of Afghanistan in the mid 80's.

This subject will never be calm in any form of discussion. Both sides believe their point VERY strongly.

In my personal opinion, the only reason the US backs Israel is because people in high places (mostly Jewish people) feel the need to help aide them, hence keeping us in the middle of the fighting.
Almost all extremists hate us because.......why? WE BACK ISRAEL. its so simple, almost ALL of the hatred that fuels the Muslims and terrorists is based in the Israel Palestine situation. If we stopped aiding Israel, i garuntee alot of our problems dealing with Terrorism and Muslim hatred against us would cease. Im not saying all of them, but im just saying, most of the people against us are against us because we are on Israels side....so there you go

thats possible. but i believe the biggest reason we are helping israel is because they have the same enemies as us...and were one of the nations that doesnt hate them because they are jewish. lets face the facts, the jews have been the most hated race, from thousands of years ago to today....its nothing new.

Matter-Eater Lad
30-06-2006, 06:20 AM
Ok so everyone knows. i assume most of you do though. al quiada formed by muslim extremist and funded by them. Taliban was helped formed by the u.s. and armed and funded for a short period of time.

TraceOddity
30-06-2006, 07:07 AM
Ok so everyone knows. i assume most of you do though. al quiada formed by muslim extremist and funded by them. Taliban was helped formed by the u.s. and armed and funded for a short period of time.
Like I said to you on another thread, this too is irrefutable fact.

What blows me away is hearing CNN saying the follwing...and I quote: Could it be that the US funded Saddam Hussein's weapons programme in the 1980s?'

People don't sem to remember back that far or haven't done the math. At that time, the US, Iraq and the Taliban had the same enemies...alliance is a marriage of convenience! Musharif said as much right after 9/11. That might just make him the most honest dictator in world history!!!

God, if I have to keep agreeing with you, Mr. Cool, I won't be able to sleep at night...lol,kidding...but in this instance, you're ritht again.

But never forget the Butsh Family's personal connection to the Bin Ladin Family...

...uh-oh...new can o' worms...

Matter-Eater Lad
30-06-2006, 07:10 AM
Bush has a family connections with the Bin Ladin family, that is a fact. BUT that doesnt mean anything, he has ties with Bin Ladin's FAMILY. He has a huge family, i think its like 70 brother and sisters..something like that. He does not have ties to Bin Laden.

TraceOddity
30-06-2006, 07:19 AM
Bush has a family connections with the Bin Ladin family, that is a fact. BUT that doesnt mean anything, he has ties with Bin Ladin's FAMILY. He has a huge family, i think its like 70 brother and sisters..something like that. He does not have ties to Bin Laden.
I'm probably re-hashing old news on the wrong thread here, but why is it, and this is also a FACT, that the members of the Bin Ladin family in the US were practically the only people allowed to fly out of the States on 9/11?

I have a connection here to an Italian family that owns a deli. I get free food from them all the time. If a nobody like me can use those family ties, how much more is the most powerful man in the free world going to use them?

I know it's a bit of a trite analogy, but my point is that one hand washes the other on every level of society...

Matter-Eater Lad
30-06-2006, 07:22 AM
I'm probably re-hashing old news on the wrong thread here, but why is it, and this is also a FACT, that the members of the Bin Ladin family in the US were practically the only people allowed to fly out of the States on 9/11?

I have a connection here to an Italian family that owns a deli. I get free food from them all the time. If a nobody like me can use those family ties, how much more is the most powerful man in the free world going to use them?

I know it's a bit of a trite analogy, but my point is that one hand washes the other on every level of society...


They were cleared by the FBI and our goverment needs to be "buddy buddy" with the rich family. its the same with the u.s. and most other nations and powerful people. one hand isnt washing the other in this situation because there was nothing to wash. Bin Ladin was the one who attacked america, not his family, they shouldnt be punished because of what there brother did.

TraceOddity
30-06-2006, 07:30 AM
They were cleared by the FBI and our goverment needs to be "buddy buddy" with the rich family. its the same with the u.s. and most other nations and powerful people. one hand isnt washing the other in this situation because there was nothing to wash. Bin Ladin was the one who attacked america, not his family, they shouldnt be punished because of what there brother did.
This is where we're probably going to end up at odds again, because I firmly believe that Bush, his family and his Whitehouse were complicit in the 9/11 attacks. There was plenty of warning that the attacks were coming, and yet nothing was done...and as I've said before, 9/11 justified the return to Iraq that Bush wanted all along. If you ask me, it's all too convenient.

But in all fairness, and in deferrence to you, alot of my belief here is based on conjecture, and I prefer to debate with just the facts. There's plenty of circumstantial eveidence to back my beliefs, but we all know where circumstantial eveince gets you in court.

Besides, I'm way off the topic of this thread, and am REALLY tired. I'll check out your reply when I'm on-line tomorrow. G'night!

Matter-Eater Lad
30-06-2006, 07:35 AM
This is where we're probably going to end up at odds again, because I firmly believe that Bush, his family and his Whitehouse were complicit in the 9/11 attacks. There was plenty of warning that the attacks were coming, and yet nothing was done...and as I've said before, 9/11 justified the return to Iraq that Bush wanted all along. If you ask me, it's all too convenient.

But in all fairness, and in deferrence to you, alot of my belief here is based on conjecture, and I prefer to debate with just the facts. There's plenty of circumstantial eveidence to back my beliefs, but we all know where circumstantial eveince gets you in court.

Besides, I'm way off the topic of this thread, and am REALLY tired. I'll check out your reply when I'm on-line tomorrow. G'night!


Nothing was done because of the goverment as a whole. because before bush security funds were cut, and people ignored the warning....the warning were there for many years, specialy during the clinton years, the terrorist attacks done by alquiada and all. bush couldnt have done anything to stop 911, he just got in office, it was a perfect time to strike. if the goverment was behind the attacks they wouldnt attack the pentagon and the twin towers...that would only hurt the nation, they would pick less valuable targets that wouldnt hurt that much but get the point accross. if bush was truly behind the attacks or played the role it would have been carried out much differently. that is my belief, not only because of that but because there is no hard evidence to back that he played a role in it.....

TraceOddity
30-06-2006, 07:55 AM
I tend towards the left if I have to choose a stance...which I don't. But Clinton for the most part slept through his terms in office!!! Still, it was good for bush that 9/11 happenned. And don't kid youself. If the deaths of a few thousand people and the destruction ofa few major US landmarks will serve the goal of any president, Republican or Democrat, they'll put it down to Collateral Damage and move on. Our puny lives...even in the thousands...mean nothing the the men...and women...in high places. The entire system is flawed. It's the old addage 'Absolute power corrupts absolutely'. Anyway, I'm still off topic and still tired...so, I'm logging off for real this time...maybe...

G'night!

Matter-Eater Lad
30-06-2006, 07:58 AM
I tend towards the left if I have to choose a stance...which I don't. But Clinton for the most part slept through his terms in office!!! Still, it was good for bush that 9/11 happenned. And don't kid youself. If the deaths of a few thousand people and the destruction ofa few major US landmarks will serve the goal of any president, Republican or Democrat, they'll put it down to Collateral Damage and move on. Our puny lives...even in the thousands...mean nothing the the men...and women...in high places. The entire system is flawed. It's the old addage 'Absolute power corrupts absolutely'. Anyway, I'm still off topic and still tired...so, I'm logging off for real this time...maybe...

G'night!

911 would be overkill to get what bush wants. he wouldnt need a attack that bad to do it. he could get what he watned with a much smaller attack...it would only hurt him and his country to attack the pentagon and wtc when there are a million other targets not worth anything that could be used...my basic point is bush isnt dumb he knows overall the attacks hurt the nation, and if he wanted to an attack to happen to get what he wants he could do a much smaller attack that wouldnt hurt the nation he's ruling and get the same effect

g'night.

Tulac
30-06-2006, 10:53 AM
LOL dude you are full of bullshit about Israel, it was never a predominantly Jewish settlement, prior to 1947 Jews had just a couple of settlements from the land they bought from the Palestinians these weren't more than 5% of land what is now Israel, and all of sudden as a sort of reparation for WW2 they got huge land based on obscured legends in the bible, so they had no right to occupy that land, it's just that they had support of international politics, otherwise by any other sane thinking the land would be given to the 67% of population not 33%...
Your thinking is like this: Oh look Alaska is barren land, and there are (hipothetically speaking) 30% of muslims there, hey they have a right to have their own country there...
I mean just think if your country would be given to the 30% of population living there, wouldn't you do something about it? Of course they didn't accept the deal it was far away from sanity or any sort of historical rights...
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/70/Map_of_Jewish_settlements_in_Palestine_in_1947.png

Bijeli_Miš
30-06-2006, 12:27 PM
thats possible. but i believe the biggest reason we are helping israel is because they have the same enemies as us...and were one of the nations that doesnt hate them because they are jewish. lets face the facts, the jews have been the most hated race, from thousands of years ago to today....its nothing new.
Ugh Nick, Jews are not a race!There is a difference beetwen race, nation, ethnic group, etc.

Maldini
30-06-2006, 12:47 PM
again i ask you to know your history before you speak. al quiada was made up by all muslim extremist. america did not fund or arm them. we armed the taliban against ussr.

you are one of the only people in this world to believe otherwise.


How amazing that you didn't know the history friend

See this

Al-Qaeda appearence 1979

Taliban appearence 1994

Russia get out from Afghanistan 1992


So from all this dates, who can dismissed the Russian Forces in many years by Guerilla War

Maldini
30-06-2006, 12:52 PM
again i ask you to know your history before you speak. al quiada was made up by all muslim extremist. america did not fund or arm them. we armed the taliban against ussr.

you are one of the only people in this world to believe otherwise.


USSR dissolution December 21, 1991

Taliban apperence 1994

Maldini
30-06-2006, 12:54 PM
the truth hurts....but hey they could have had their palestine if they really wanted it...but sadly they dont.


What you mean?

Maldini
30-06-2006, 12:58 PM
[quote=brandon313]He is right about the Taliban and the USSR, the Taliban was a FORMER CIA funded and trained unit used to carry out missions against the Soviet Union during the invasion of Afghanistan in the mid 80's.




I will say it again

Taliban apperence 1994, so how they can carry out missions against the Soviet Union during the invasion of Afghanistan in the mid 80's.

TraceOddity
01-07-2006, 07:03 AM
1. Where are you getting you info on the Taliban's formation? I was around in the 80s and watched news reports about the Taliban fighting the USSR in Afghanistan.
2. And this is off-topic, but someone else raised it and it's ironic as hell...You asked how someone would feel if the US was given to 30 percent of the population??? Ask the indiginous people!!!
3. The Jews were given a choice between 2 places to settle in 1946...one in the Arctic...seriously...and what we now call Isreal. They could either live in unfarmable conditions, or in the midst of their enemies...not really a fair deal anyway you slice it, so don't tell me the Jews got any kind of break!
4. The Jews ARE indeed a race. This is not conspiracy crap. There was this little thing called the Diaspora...i.e. dispersion...ask you history teacher.

I've probably opened up new cans of worms here, and that's ok. I may have insulted ppl here, and that's not ok. I appologize if I've hurt feelings. I'm just repeating history as I've read and remembered it. No offense intended.

Matter-Eater Lad
01-07-2006, 09:01 AM
the official taliban didnt form til then. but the people who made up the taliban were earlier armed and trained mostly by the US to fight the USSR....those soldiers a few after defeating the USSR formed the taliban....so we did help arm and train them...although alot of the weapons they had in recent years were mostly soviet weapons captured from the USSR's invasion and left there....

Matter-Eater Lad
01-07-2006, 09:05 AM
How amazing that you didn't know the history friend

See this

Al-Qaeda appearence 1979

Taliban appearence 1994

Russia get out from Afghanistan 1992


So from all this dates, who can dismissed the Russian Forces in many years by Guerilla War


So retrospect i do know my history.....

Maldini
01-07-2006, 02:07 PM
1. Where are you getting you info on the Taliban's formation? I was around in the 80s and watched news reports about the Taliban fighting the USSR in Afghanistan.
2. And this is off-topic, but someone else raised it and it's ironic as hell...You asked how someone would feel if the US was given to 30 percent of the population??? Ask the indiginous people!!!
3. The Jews were given a choice between 2 places to settle in 1946...one in the Arctic...seriously...and what we now call Isreal. They could either live in unfarmable conditions, or in the midst of their enemies...not really a fair deal anyway you slice it, so don't tell me the Jews got any kind of break!
4. The Jews ARE indeed a race. This is not conspiracy crap. There was this little thing called the Diaspora...i.e. dispersion...ask you history teacher.

I've probably opened up new cans of worms here, and that's ok. I may have insulted ppl here, and that's not ok. I appologize if I've hurt feelings. I'm just repeating history as I've read and remembered it. No offense intended.


1- I'm student in Faculty of Law and I study it. There isn't any formation called Taliban in the 80's


2- It's not off topic as you said,this is the core of topic because if we cleared who have the right to live in this land and who own it.We will know who the freedom fighters and who the terrorists

3- Clear what you mean in your third point


4- Jews not a race,maybe in the past but now no.Because when the jews dispersion they vanish and merge with the other races so there no race called jews because there are Russians jews,American jews,Egyptians jew, Japanese jews ,Latin jews and Africa jews.Do you understand me?

Matter-Eater Lad
01-07-2006, 08:05 PM
1- I'm student in Faculty of Law and I study it. There isn't any formation called Taliban in the 80's


2- It's not off topic as you said,this is the core of topic because if we cleared who have the right to live in this land and who own it.We will know who the freedom fighters and who the terrorists

3- Clear what you mean in your third point


4- Jews not a race,maybe in the past but now no.Because when the jews dispersion they vanish and merge with the other races so there no race called jews because there are Russians jews,American jews,Egyptians jew, Japanese jews ,Latin jews and Africa jews.Do you understand me?

LISTEN here ok, the people who formed the taliban were trained to fight the soviets by the USA and armed by us....they werent called teh taliban at the time.

yes we do know, the freedom fighters are the jews trying to survive in their legal land, while racist terrorist are trying to kill them because they are jews.....the palestinians arent fighting for freedom.

Maldini
01-07-2006, 10:33 PM
LISTEN here ok, the people who formed the taliban were trained to fight the soviets by the USA and armed by us....they werent called teh taliban at the time.

yes we do know, the freedom fighters are the jews trying to survive in their legal land, while racist terrorist are trying to kill them because they are jews.....the palestinians arent fighting for freedom.


Look,put Taliban aside now


How do you know that jews a freedom fighters and they are defend their land?

But first,tell me in brief how the jews make their country?

Please don't tell me there are few people live there because it's not a reason

GazeboflossUK
02-07-2006, 12:31 AM
Palestinian PM's HQ 'targeted'

Israeli aircraft have launched an attack on the office of the Palestinian Prime Minister Ismail Haniya, witnesses have said.
The attack comes during an Israeli incursion into Gaza after one of their soldiers was abducted last week.

Witnesses said two missiles hit the south side of the prime minister's building, starting a fire.

Three security guards were reportedly injured in the attack, which took place at 0145 local time (2245 GMT).

The BBC's Alan Johnston in Gaza says he heard the sound of helicopters, and that witnesses said one rocket struck Mr Haniya's second floor office, setting the building ablaze.

Another explosion was heard shortly after.

Abbas hopeful

The attack follows a strike on the office of the interior ministry on Thursday.

Israeli forces have also moved into the south of Gaza as part of efforts to free the soldier, Corporal Gilad Shalit, 19, captured by militants during a raid on an Israeli army post last week.

Palestinian president Mahmoud Abbas has said he is still hopeful of a peaceful resolution over the capture of the soldier.

GazeboflossUK
02-07-2006, 02:11 AM
Air strike on Palestinian PM's HQ

Witnesses said two missiles hit the cabinet building
Israeli aircraft have launched an attack on Gaza City, hitting the office of the Palestinian Prime Minister Ismail Haniya.
The attack comes during an Israeli incursion into Gaza after one of their soldiers was abducted last week.

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41836000/jpg/_41836800_gaza_story203.jpg

Witnesses said two missiles hit the south side of the offices of the Hamas-led cabinet, starting a fire.

Three security guards were reportedly injured in the attack, and at least one Hamas member died in a separate strike.

The attack on the cabinet offices took place at 0145 local time (2245 GMT). The prime minister was not there at the time.

Mr Haniya visited the scene of the attack later, saying: "They have targeted a symbol for the Palestinian people."

"We ask the international community and the Arab League to take its responsibilities towards our people and intervene to bring an end to this aggression."

The BBC's Alan Johnston in Gaza says he heard the sound of helicopters, and that witnesses said one rocket struck Mr Haniya's second floor office, setting the building ablaze.

Another explosion was heard shortly after.

Abbas hopeful

The attack follows a strike on the office of the interior ministry on Thursday.

Our correspondent says the attacks on ministers' offices were a clear sign the Israelis regarded them as personally responsible for the soldier's fate.

Israeli forces have also moved into the south of Gaza as part of efforts to free the soldier, Corporal Gilad Shalit, 19, captured by militants during a raid on an Israeli army post last week.

Speaking before the latest strikes, Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas said he was still hopeful of a peaceful resolution over the capture of the soldier.

He said that the door to an agreement had not been closed and that negotiations would continue but he indicated that there were limits to his optimism, said our correspondent.

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41835000/jpg/_41835564_guns-ap-203body.jpg

The three groups believed to be holding the Israeli have demanded the release of 1,000 prisoners held in Israeli prisons, and an end to the offensive. Israel is refusing to consider a prisoner swap.

Egyptian mediators have so far failed to secure the soldier's release.

An official close to the negotiations told AFP news agency: "Our efforts to release the soldier have reached a dead end.

"We could not do any more to release him because there are too many demands interfering with our efforts."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/spl/hi/pop_ups/06/middle_east_enl_1151598649/img/1.jpg

The UN's special Middle East envoy, Alvero de Soto, is expected to travel to Gaza on Sunday for talks with Mr Abbas.

Israel has rejected conditions set for information on, or the freeing of, the tank gunner who was seized in a raid on his border post last Sunday in which two other soldiers and two of the attackers died.

large Israeli force remains poised on Gaza's northern edge as mediators make last-ditch attempts to reach a solution.

Israeli tanks and bulldozers crossing the border near Khan Younis ran into gunfire and grenades on Saturday.

It was the first sustained encounter between the two sides since the incursion was launched, our correspondent said.

However, casualties in Gaza have been relatively light since the incursion began, with the deaths of two militants reported before Sunday's air strikes.

GAZA CRISIS TIMELINE
Sun 25 June: Cpl Gilad Shalit captured in cross-border attack
Mon 26 June: Palestinian Popular Resistance Committees demand prisoner releases in exchange for Shalit
Weds 28 June: Israeli military enters southern strip after launching air strikes on Gaza
Thurs 29 June: Israel detains dozens of Hamas officials
Sat 1 July: Groups believed to be holding Cpl Shalit demand 1,000 prisoners be released

from www.bbc.co.uk/news

Maldini
02-07-2006, 02:53 AM
Israel the brutal

Matter-Eater Lad
02-07-2006, 07:12 AM
Look,put Taliban aside now


How do you know that jews a freedom fighters and they are defend their land?

But first,tell me in brief how the jews make their country?

Please don't tell me there are few people live there because it's not a reason


Because they are fighting for their freedom and their lives against racist....

Bijeli_Miš
02-07-2006, 03:07 PM
God damn, do I need to repeat myself, Jews are not a race, they are part of the same race as Arabs, the caucasian one.
So if a "white" or "yellow" person shouts: "kill that niger" or vice versa -that's a racism.
And if someone shouts :"kill that jew"-that's anti-semitism
So please don't throw around with words you don't know the meaning of.

Ambergris
02-07-2006, 07:12 PM
Israel forces are totally nuts! they bombed in the first palestinian misnister office! fortunately he wasn't there...

Yesterday I saw a documental of how Israel was making more of a "psychological" war on the whole palestinian people, how during the nights the make a terrible sound when their planes accelerate and it sounds like a bomb... its like that all the time, and people do not sleep...

Matter-Eater Lad
02-07-2006, 07:57 PM
Israel forces are totally nuts! they bombed in the first palestinian misnister office! fortunately he wasn't there...

Yesterday I saw a documental of how Israel was making more of a "psychological" war on the whole palestinian people, how during the nights the make a terrible sound when their planes accelerate and it sounds like a bomb... its like that all the time, and people do not sleep...


Yeah furtunately....i mean god forbid they kill a fucking terrorist or someone who helps them...that would be just bad. these people are fighting for their lives because they are jewish and they are the terrible people...but i cant blame you guys its in most people's culture to dislike or hate the jews. it has been for thousands of years. specialy in europe.

Maldini
03-07-2006, 12:46 AM
Yeah furtunately....i mean god forbid they kill a fucking terrorist or someone who helps them...that would be just bad. these people are fighting for their lives because they are jewish and they are the terrible people...but i cant blame you guys its in most people's culture to dislike or hate the jews. it has been for thousands of years. specialy in europe.


Ok

Till now you didn't showed,how Israel established? but in brief please

Matter-Eater Lad
03-07-2006, 06:37 AM
Ok

Till now you didn't showed,how Israel established? but in brief please

You cant describe that in brief.

GazeboflossUK
03-07-2006, 04:41 PM
Basically, you are trying to defend a corrupt Governments actions.

Nothing changes huh?

Israel has long being a supporter of state sponsored terrorist acts, it's old news.....everyone knows how badly they treat the Palestinian people.

Matter-Eater Lad
03-07-2006, 07:18 PM
Basically, you are trying to defend a corrupt Governments actions.

Nothing changes huh?

Isreal has long being a supporter of state sponsored terrorist acts, it's old news.....everyone knows how badly they treat the Palestinian people.


they've given the palestinians many chances but everytime they do they use terrorism and screw it up. what israel is doing is what it must to survive and to protect its people from terrorism. but in your book the terrorist arent the bad guys?

GazeboflossUK
04-07-2006, 12:38 AM
Your defending of the Israel regime doesn't suprise me.....

You use the word terrorist like a pro. bushite.

Scary.

Matter-Eater Lad
04-07-2006, 08:03 AM
I use the word terrorist only when the shoe fits. of course im defending the jews, they are the ones who arent the enemy, im trying to break the whole jew hating pattern of this world.....i dont blame you, its deep within european culture to dislike them and naturally their nation would be hated as well.

GazeboflossUK
04-07-2006, 01:11 PM
im trying to break the whole jew hating pattern of this world.....i dont blame you, its deep within european culture to dislike them and naturally their nation would be hated as well.

You really are a piece of scum. Hey, I'm no 'Jew Hater', what on earth are you getting out this you idiot.
I have never said I hate Jews at all yet you make this little lie up. You don't deserve the life you have you retard.

And for the record, I was making points about the criminal regime on control of Isreal.....not it's people.



What's his game, anyone?

Matter-Eater Lad
04-07-2006, 07:38 PM
You really are a piece of scum. Hey, I'm no 'Jew Hater', what on earth are you getting out this you idiot.
I have never said I hate Jews at all yet you make this little lie up. You don't deserve the life you have you retard.

And for the record, I was making points about the criminal regime on control of Isreal.....not it's people.



What's his game, anyone?

Do personal insults make you feel big? you're so childish. grow up please. its funny you try to pull the whole im older thing on me, yet you always revert back to childish insults.....how funny!;)

but i wont get mad, i know its deep in most of europe's culture to be anti-jews. so im not blaming you.

listen kid, when you're ready to be mature. we'll debate somethings

GazeboflossUK
04-07-2006, 08:42 PM
I don't understand how you can't see how deserved you are of an insult or two.
Go around calling me an anti-jew and expect to be called at least one name.

Matter-Eater Lad
04-07-2006, 09:19 PM
I don't understand how you can't see how deserved you are of an insult or two.
Go around calling me an anti-jew and expect to be called at least one name.

Please dude act your age, and act mature.

im not calling you anti jew, im saying it deep within your culture to have hatred or dislike of jews. just likes its deep within american culture to be racist against african americans. its a psychological thing.

Bijeli_Miš
04-07-2006, 11:10 PM
but i wont get mad, i know its deep in most of europe's culture to be anti-jews. so im not blaming you.
Any link to prove it Nick?:lol:

Matter-Eater Lad
09-07-2006, 09:33 PM
Any link to prove it Nick?:lol:

No, but if anyone would go back throughout europes history its easy to see.

Maldini
09-07-2006, 11:54 PM
they've given the palestinians many chances but everytime they do they use terrorism and screw it up. what israel is doing is what it must to survive and to protect its people from terrorism. but in your book the terrorist arent the bad guys?


Give them many chances about thier land:dozey:

What a world:shocked2:

GazeboflossUK
13-07-2006, 12:25 AM
SKY NEWS (probably not the best source but..)
Gaza Hit By Air Strike
Updated: 00:05, Thursday July 13, 2006

An Israeli airstrike has destroyed the Palestinian Foreign Ministry in Gaza City, witnesses have said.

There are no reports of casualties after the attack, which comes after Israeli air and ground forces moved into southern Lebanon to search for two soldiers captured by Hizbollah guerrillas.

Prime Minister Ehud Olmert described the abduction as an "act of war" by the Lebanese government.

The Israeli Cabinet said it has authorised a "severe response" against Hizbollah.

Lebanese security officials said Israeli warplanes have attacked a Palestinian guerrilla base 10 miles south of Beirut - the closest raid to Lebanese capital.

The US said it held Iran and Syria responsible for the kidnapping.

Lebanese Prime Minister Fouad Siniora said: "(Lebanon's) government was not aware of and does not take responsibility for, nor endorses what happened on the international border."

He condemned the Israeli retaliation and said his government would call for a UN Security Council meeting.

Israel's Army radio said large numbers of troops, as well as aircraft, were taking part in searches for the soldiers.

Israeli is calling up its reserve troops, a signal that a large-scale military campaign could begin.

Hizbollah snatched the soldiers after Israeli aircraft struck guerrilla positions in southern Lebanon.


Children were among injured in Gaza bombing Hizbollah leader Sheik Hassan Nasrallah said the soldiers were in a "safe and very distant place", adding that the abduction was the militant organisation's "logical right" and they would only released as part of a prisoner swap.

A top Hamas official said Israel must free all Arab prisoners for the men to be released.

Eight Israeli soldiers were killed in the violence - three in the Hizbollah raid and five when their tank was hit by a landmine as it entered southern Lebanon. A Hizbollah fighter was also killed.

Mr Ohmert said of the soldiers' capture: "It is an act of war by the state of Lebanon against the state of Israel."

He added: "We are already responding with great strength ... The cabinet will convene tonight to decide on a further military response."

Israeli Defence Minister Amir Peretz authorised a campaign of air strikes targeting both Hizbollah guerrilla installations and Lebanese civilian infrastructure.

UN General Secretary Kofi Annan condemned both the soldiers' abductions and Israel's move into Lebanon.

Israel withdrew from southern Lebanon in 2000 after an 18-year war against the Iranian and Syrian-backed fighters.

In the Gaza Strip, nine members of one family - the parents and seven children - were killed and 15 people injured after Israel dropped a quarter-tonne bomb on a house.

Israel said it was trying to kill top Hamas figures.

Five Palestinians were killed on Wednesday evening in another Israeli attack.

Israeli tanks also rolled into the central Gaza Strip in an expansion of the offensive aimed at freeing a soldier captured last month.

Militants, including the armed wing of Hamas, are demanding Israel free 1,000 prisoners in exchange for 19-year-old corporal Gilad Shalit.


BBC NEWS

Israeli aircraft have bombed the Palestinian foreign ministry building in Gaza City, according to witnesses.
At least three people were reported injured in the attack, which was said to have badly damaged the building.

The strike early on Thursday comes as Israel continues its offensive following the capture of an Israeli soldier two weeks ago.

At least 23 Palestinians died on Wednesday as Israeli troops occupied positions in central Gaza

huntjd
13-07-2006, 12:30 PM
To Gazebofloss
Gazebofloss are you nuts!!! Firstly you should stop ur LSD addiction. it causes you to make everything a conspiracy. sure a conspiracy some things may be but i highly doubt this whole thing in israel is as well as al qaeda.

To everyone
also in regards to israel and the US, the US fund Israel because they needed a base in the middle east. before the invasion of iraq thjey had nowhere in the middle east. Reference note: the US would never put a base in syria or lebanon so don't say its the jews who orchestrated this. DON'T QUESTION THIS it comes from my international politics teacher who is a dean of politics at a university. unless you are more qualified to analyse the situation shut up.

coldplaying
13-07-2006, 02:01 PM
the saucy and offensive child of the killer father continues his attacks...

huntjd
13-07-2006, 02:03 PM
hahaha
yes i am. in the word of chris martin:
'maybe i'm biased. but i'm definetly right'
lol

Matter-Eater Lad
13-07-2006, 10:17 PM
the saucy and offensive child of the killer father continues his attacks...

Are you talking about bush?

GazeboflossUK
14-07-2006, 12:40 AM
To Gazebofloss
Gazebofloss are you nuts!!! Firstly you should stop ur LSD addiction. it causes you to make everything a conspiracy. sure a conspiracy some things may be but i highly doubt this whole thing in israel is as well as al qaeda.

What?
I've just posted a couple of articles about this offensive by Israel.....I never mentioned a conspiracy here.

Anyway, I don't need people telling me to "give up my LSD addiction".
I mean, really....is that what we have come to?
Whatever happened to making a counterargument?

I think I'm far more intelligent and informed than people who's reaction is "your crazy" or "your nuts" or any other pointless comment that carries no credible (or normal) weighting and only attacks the author and not the facts.

Again, as I have said before, I'm not concerned with people having opinions on me personally because without having valid documented evidence themselves, their pathetic little stabs at my character mean nothing.

I am not alone in my thoughts, and I am certainly not 'nuts'. I don't apply conspiracies to everything but definitely do to plently of events.....because there's blatent evidence of it.

How can I be 'nuts' from reading offical government documents like The Project for a New American Century's document called Rebuilding Americas Defenses from 2000, for example - which states how America needs to fight 'large' 'simultaneous' wars across the globe to show how powerful they are, 'maintaining the nation's privileged position as sole world superpower' - and that they need a 'new catastrophic and catalyzing event — like a new pearl harbor' as a pretext to gather public support and get all this done. This last quote appears in Chapter V, entitled "Creating Tomorrow's Dominant Force", which discusses the perceived need for the Department of Defense to "move more aggressively to experiment with new technologies and operational concepts”

So when I write topics about like that, I get labelled a "whacky" and "nutty" LSD taking no-nothing........it's madness people.

People who have met me know that this isn't all I am about.....but they also know I am looking at this information for the best interests of others. Trust me, I'm not interested in looking like an idiot in 10 years time, when all these terrible global policies are working out. Infact, I want to be a real part of what stops them completely.

Gareth

Matter-Eater Lad
14-07-2006, 06:42 AM
What?
I've just posted a couple of articles about this offensive by Isreal.....I never mentioned a conspiracy here.

Anyway, I don't need people telling me to "give up my LSD addiction".
I mean, really....is that what we have come to?
Whatever happened to making a counterargument?

I think I'm far more intelligent and informed than people who's reaction is "your crazy" or "your nuts" or any other pointless comment that carries no credible (or normal) weighting and only attacks the author and not the facts.

Again, as I have said before, I'm not concerned with people having opinions on me personally because without having valid documented evidence themselves, their pathetic little stabs at my character mean nothing.

I am not alone in my thoughts, and I am certainly not 'nuts'. I don't apply conspiracies to everything but definitely do to plently of events.....because there's blatent evidence of it.

How can I be 'nuts' from reading offical government documents like The Project for a New American Century's document called Rebuilding Americas Defenses from 2000, for example - which states how America needs to fight 'large' 'simultaneous' wars across the globe to show how powerful they are, 'maintaining the nation's privileged position as sole world superpower' - and that they need a 'new catastrophic and catalyzing event — like a new pearl harbor' as a pretext to gather public support and get all this done. This last quote appears in Chapter V, entitled "Creating Tomorrow's Dominant Force", which discusses the perceived need for the Department of Defense to "move more aggressively to experiment with new technologies and operational concepts”

So when I write topics about like that, I get labelled a "whacky" and "nutty" LSD taking no-nothing........it's madness people.

People who have met me know that this isn't all I am about.....but they also know I am looking at this information for the best interests of others. Trust me, I'm not interested in looking like an idiot in 10 years time, when all these terrible global policies are working out. Infact, I want to be a real part of what stops them completely.

Gareth


I've told you. Most people are going to call you crazy and laugh at you for conspiracy theories. Thats how most people who believe them are treated. And viewed as drug addicts or crazy or both. Im not personaly attacking you here, im saying thats what happens. Because most people do not believe them.

coldplaying
14-07-2006, 07:29 AM
Are you talking about bush?
killer father is usa and the child is israel....nothing against the people of these nations though,only politics..

Matter-Eater Lad
14-07-2006, 07:36 AM
killer father is usa and the child is israel....nothing against the people of these nations though,only politics..


ahhh. you act like every nation is not a killer. the real killer is nations like Iran and North Korea and Russia.

coldplaying
14-07-2006, 07:41 AM
i didn't say that..but i put usa&israel in a different place...

Matter-Eater Lad
14-07-2006, 08:14 AM
i didn't say that..but i put usa&israel in a different place...

above iran and north korea?

huntjd
14-07-2006, 10:17 AM
also gareth have you ever lived in israel? or even know any israelis before you begin to accuse the country of offensive behaviour?
also if you propose that israel is the aggresor do you even have the slightest idea of the basis of israeli law? i'll assume not. as you see, israeli law is a combination of civil law and jewish biblical law. one law that has been kept from jewish law is the principle of attack only once already attacked. so self defence.
Israel does not want or need to go into lebanon. it is only because of a combination of hamas' and hizbullah's kidnappings.

**sorry for calling you a drug addict. it was the wrong thing to do. i hope you don't hold it against me. you have the right to an opinion as i do**

Matter-Eater Lad
14-07-2006, 10:36 AM
also gareth have you ever lived in israel? or even know any israelis before you begin to accuse the country of offensive behaviour?
also if you propose that israel is the aggresor do you even have the slightest idea of the basis of israeli law? i'll assume not. as you see, israeli law is a combination of civil law and jewish biblical law. one law that has been kept from jewish law is the principle of attack only once already attacked. so self defence.
Israel does not want or need to go into lebanon. it is only because of a combination of hamas' and hizbullah's kidnappings.

**sorry for calling you a drug addict. it was the wrong thing to do. i hope you don't hold it against me. you have the right to an opinion as i do**

Israel is only protecting itself. Israel is being attacked by terrorist groups, and they are the bad ones for striking back? geez what kind of world is it now days?

GazeboflossUK
14-07-2006, 10:44 AM
I've told you. Most people are going to call you crazy and laugh at you for conspiracy theories. Thats how most people who believe them are treated. And viewed as drug addicts or crazy or both.

You say that, but infact MOST people don't and MOST people here haven't either.

GazeboflossUK
14-07-2006, 10:52 AM
Israel is only protecting itself. Israel is being attacked by terrorist groups, and they are the bad ones for striking back? geez what kind of world is it now days?

A world where Israel have three soldiers captured and use it as an excuse to go all out on a massive offensive.

And also, why is it that everytime the Israel, U.S or the U.K attack and use force it's called 'liberation' or similar.....but when palistine or any Islamic nation attacks it's 'terrorsim'?? Even if the US or UK are the initial aggressor....

GazeboflossUK
14-07-2006, 10:57 AM
**sorry for calling you a drug addict. it was the wrong thing to do. i hope you don't hold it against me. you have the right to an opinion as i do**

Obviously, I knew you didn't really think I was on drugs.....

It's not that you called me "nuts" or that I use "LSD"...it's the way it's used.
It's like, "I don't like what your saying, so I'll say something bad about you personally" mentality which is a tactic used by many. Even the mainstream media do it with people who speak out. It's easier than making a real argument, which a lot of the time they really can't.

huntjd
14-07-2006, 10:58 AM
Israel never calls an offensive liberation. Israels military actions are always in self defence, protecting thei citizens. in lebanon and gaza these citizens are soldiers in the army. and its not as if the soldiers choose3 to fight for israel. military duty is compulsory in israel for 2-3 years after completion of high school. so the majority of the soldiers aren't military affecionados like many in the US

huntjd
14-07-2006, 11:00 AM
Obviously, I knew you didn't really think I was on drugs.....

It's not that you called me "nuts" or that I use "LSD"...it's the way it's used.
It's like, "I don't like what your saying, so I'll say something bad about you personally" mentality which is a tactic used by many. Even the mainstream media do it with people who speak out. It's easier than making a real argument, which a lot of the time they really can't.

yeah thats true. i suppose its a reaction thing where my typing goes faster than my brain comprehending what i'm saying and personal insults are used rather than facts or wit. once again i am sorry.

GazeboflossUK
14-07-2006, 11:02 AM
Israel never calls an offensive liberation. Israels military actions are always in self defence, protecting thei citizens

1 - That's utterly false, Israels military actions are NOT always in self defence, protecting thier citizens.

2 - Not 'Liberation' in Isreals case but it's never called terrorsim

huntjd
14-07-2006, 11:03 AM
ok. you can say that its not always in self defense but i wopuld like some proof of this...

also worth a read... israeli army code of ethics
http://www1.idf.il/DOVER/site/mainpage.asp?sl=EN&id=32

coldplaying
14-07-2006, 12:34 PM
above iran and north korea?

well, neither above nor below... totally different, i just cannot find their(usa and israel) attacks reasonable..actually i can find a wise reason and because of that reason i don't support their actions...
and in this topic (i don't know what has been said in another subjects) i am (almost totally) with GazeboflossUK...

GazeboflossUK
14-07-2006, 01:11 PM
Israel's offensive did not start last week. The three-month-old Israeli government is responsible for the killing eighty or more Palestinians.........some of whom were children.......in attacks aimed at carrying out illegal extrajudicial assassinations and other punishments........
Hamas has maintained a one-sided cease-fire for the past sixteen months, but continued Israeli attacks made Palestinian retaliation only a question of time. (Palestinian factions not under Hamas's control had been firing home-made rockets across the border off and on during this period--almost always with little or no damage or casualties--but these factions maintained that the attacks were in response to Israeli provocations.)

Since the beginning of the intifada in September 2000, repeated Israeli bombardments and targeted assassinations against Palestinians have aggravated the violence and led to Israeli deaths. In fact, according to the US academic Steve Niva, who has been documenting the intifada, many major Palestinian suicide bombings since 2001 have come in retaliation for Israeli assassinations, many of which occurred when the Palestinians were mulling over or abiding by self-imposed restraint.

To give three examples:

On July 31, 2001, Israel's assassination of the two leading Hamas militants in Nablus ended a nearly two-month Hamas cease-fire, leading to the terrible August 9 Hamas suicide bombing in a Jerusalem pizzeria. On July 22, 2002, an Israeli air attack on a crowded apartment block in Gaza City killed a senior Hamas leader, Salah Shehada, and fourteen civilians, nine of them children, hours before a widely reported unilateral cease-fire declaration.
A suicide bombing followed on August 4. On June 10, 2003, Israel's attempted assassination of the senior Hamas political leader in Gaza, Abdel-Aziz al-Rantisi, which wounded him and killed four Palestinian civilians, led to a bus bombing in Jerusalem on June 11 that killed sixteen Israelis.

Although Israel's provocations don't justify suicide bombings, they demonstrate how its deterrence has lost its effectiveness and why the source of terrorism lies first and foremost in its aggression and occupation. In this context, affected Palestinian civilians see themselves not as "collateral damage" but as victims of state terrorism.

As for the nature of its "retaliation," one could hardly refer to Israel's destruction of the civic infrastructure of 1.3 million Palestinians as "measured." The Israeli army began last week's offensive on the Gaza Strip by bombing bridges, roads and electric supplies, and by arresting nearly one-third of Hamas's West Bank-based parliamentarians and ministers (according to the Israeli press, the security services are holding the elected Palestinian officials as bargaining chips with Hamas).

The nature of the Israeli offensive is to punish, overwhelm and deter with disproportionate force, regardless of the suffering of the general public. Cutting off basic services of the Palestinians is not only unjustified, it is collective punishment of a civilian population--illegal under the Fourth Geneva Convention.

The asymmetry between Israeli and Palestinian firepower mustn't be translated into asymmetry between the value of Israeli and Palestinian life. The Palestinians have captured one Israeli soldier, but Israel holds more than 9,000 Palestinian prisoners, about 900 of whom are under "administrative detention," i.e., without trial. It has held some of these prisoners for longer than three years. Those in the international community calling for the IDF soldier's release need to address, at minimum, the ordeal of Palestinian women and children in Israeli jails.

The Israeli government, like any other, has the right and indeed the duty to protect its people, but not at the high expense of the Palestinians, whose government's credibility also rests on defending its people. The use of military force to scare and overawe a civilian population for political ends--in this case, to pressure the Palestinian Authority or undermine the Hamas government--is the very definition of state terrorism.

In its thirty-nine years of occupation, Israel's attempts to tame or intimidate the Palestinians have instead led to their incitement and radicalization. Isn't it time for Israel to change course? After all, in a minuscule territory where the longest distance separating an Israeli and Palestinian area is no more than nine kilometers, Israelis will never be secure if the Palestinians are utterly insecure.

That's why Israel's harsh responses to Palestinian militancy have generally increased, not reduced, the threat to Israelis. While from 1978 to 1987 eighty-two Israelis were killed in Palestinian attacks, that figure jumped to more than 400 the following decade. And in less than two years of the second intifada (September 29, 2000, to May 29, 2002), more than 450 Israelis and 1,250 Palestinians were slain, mostly civilians on both sides.

Lastly, regarding its refusal to bargain with "terrorists," Israel's previous dealings with Lebanon's Hezbollah paint a different picture. Israel's bombardment of Beirut's electric generators and its Operation "Grapes of Wrath" in 1996, which led to the Qana massacre, failed, like many other operations, to deter the Lebanese resistance, which eventually forced Israel to negotiate through a third party with those it deemed "Islamist terrorists" and release hundreds of Lebanese and Palestinian prisoners from its jails in exchange for the remains of dead Israeli soldiers.

The ongoing saga has once again demonstrated the absurdity of unilateralism as a viable and secure solution. And yet, the Olmert government is using the kidnapping of the soldier to undermine the historic agreement Hamas has reached with PA President Mahmoud Abbas's Fatah party over a unity government and de facto recognition of and negotiations with Israel, its sworn enemy.

Whether we like it or not, Hamas, like Hezbollah, is mostly a byproduct of an oppressive occupation, not the other way around. That's why refraining from excessive use of force and concentrating all efforts on a negotiated end to the occupation is paramount. Otherwise, Israel will only increase Hamas's popularity and push it back to clandestinity and war.


"Israel's offensive against the besieged territories -- and now Lebanon -- will only leave the region with more destruction, and the Israeli government with more deadlock."
Marwan Bishara - lecturer at the American University of Paris

huntjd
14-07-2006, 01:23 PM
lol not under hamas' control. hamas are a terrorist group. if the people aren't under their control then what are they?
i'm not sure if you've actually been to hamas' website but they openly state that they aim to 'drive the zionists (israel) into the meditteranean'. what about the israeli citizens maimed and injured by radical palestinian suicide bombings? many on buses during peak hour when children are going to school. hamas and hizbollah target the whole nation of israel and its people. the israeli army targets the terrorist groups and most unfortunately civilians caught in the crossfire.
Remember these hamas people are the same people who wooed a 16 autistic palestinian from the west bank to strap bombs to his chest and attempt to travel into jerusalem to explode it... hamas has no civil or democratic aims other than to wipe israel off the map.

GazeboflossUK
14-07-2006, 01:29 PM
I don't support the Bombings by either side....but....

....The support for Israel here is frighening.

I'm not going to get into this any further here.....it's a dead end argument.

Israel’s supposed arch-enemy, the terrorist group Hamas, was founded and funded by Israel’s dominant Likud party and continues to be bankrolled to this day by political bodies pushing a one world government system. This is not my opinion and I am not breaking an exclusive story. It is a documented fact reported on by mainstream news outlets and admitted by respected individuals within the US and Israeli governments and intelligence agencies.

Nidal planned to oust Saddam (Palestinian terrorist working for Mossad): News Insight 08/22/02 (http://www.prisonplanet.com/news_alert_hamas3.html)

The Hamas-Likud Pairing: Jerusalem Post 08/25/95 (http://www.prisonplanet.com/news_alert_hamas4.html)

Hamas Divided Against Itself: Middle East Intelligence Bullitin 06/99 (http://www.prisonplanet.com/news_alert_hamas.html)

Israeli Roots of Hamas are being exposed: Centre for Research on Globalisation 18/18/02 (http://www.prisonplanet.com/news_alert_hamas6.html)

Sharon War Plan Exposed: Hamas Gang Is His Tool: Executive Intelligence Review 07/20/01 (http://www.prisonplanet.com/news_alert_hamas5.html)

Arafat: Hamas Are Sharon's Children: Executive Review News Service 12/21/01 (http://www.prisonplanet.com/news_alert_hamas7.html)

Israel's Hamas: The New York Press 04/17/02 (http://www.prisonplanet.com/news_alert_hamas8.html)

The objectives of Hamas dovetail with those of the Likud, no settlement at all costs. Whenever the prospect of a workable peace settlement between the Israelis and Palestinians arises, Hamas or one of their offshoots blows a bus, restaurant or a hotel to pieces. This gives Israel the justification needed to scupper any agreement and further entrench their occupation of disputed lands. All the outsider sees is carnage, death and a mainstream media that spins the issue so that these atrocities somehow represent the wishes of the Palestinian people.

The Globalists have no intention of settling the conflict and will likely use it several years down the line to initiate a near-apocalyptic third world war that will fully ensconce their wicked empire. The final phase is a stage-managed ‘clash of civilizations’ between the Arab world, possibly supported by China, and the west.

According to United Press International,

“Israel and Hamas may currently be locked in deadly combat, but, according to several current and former U.S. intelligence officials, beginning in the late 1970s, Tel Aviv gave direct and indirect financial aid to Hamas over a period of years.”

huntjd
14-07-2006, 01:48 PM
the support for israel isn't frigtening. i'm jewish and unless you find another place in the world where jews can go if a holocaust ever happens again tell me so. until then israel has every right to protect the state and its civilians not only for the country but the jewish people as well.

in regards to 'oppressive occupation' i'll remind you that it was the palestinians who wanted ALL of israel in '47 with the UN resolution and rejected the proposed plan of settlement. i also draw your attention to ehud barak's offering to arafat and the palestinians wher he gave them joint control over jerusalem as well as a region that is far larger than the current palestinian territories.

also with palestinian women and children in jails. don't speak out of your ass by grossly extrapolating the situation.
if there are such in jails they are terrorists or extremists that propagate for the destruction of israel.

in the situation in israel there are extremists on both sides. religious settlers in the west bank and gaza fuel a situation where they aggravate palestinians then refuse to serve in israel's army as they are already 'praying for the country'

arafat squandered millions of israeli money for the devlopment of a palestinian state into swiss bank accounts and personal houses etc. how else can they drive mercedes while the 'rest of their people' barely have 1st world living conditions. there is a real problem in the P.A with corruption.

i don't support ariel sharon starting the intifada either. i have not met or known an israeli that is pro war especially the ones that are my age of 16/17. they know that in less than a year they will be called up to the army to fight, possibly losing their lives *god forbid*. these are people i have seen face to face and who lived with us for a month last year on student exchange. i don't a war neither do they.

live in israel, have friends there, hear about the suicide bombings of pizza restaurants, go to a funeral of a murdered teenager. then you will see both sides of the equation and not the totally leftist view of backing the underdog.

bart
14-07-2006, 03:55 PM
despite my post in the world war III thread....
I would say one thing, which I took from a debate I heard on 5 live this morning...
' you cant blame the Israeli kids, they know of no other home... and its not their fault they are there... ' very true.... I think
however they still need to be re educated though... to achive peace in the future

huntjd
14-07-2006, 04:16 PM
the israeli kids need to be educated better?! the palestinian children need to not be indoctrinated by terrorist groups!

bart
14-07-2006, 04:37 PM
the israeli kids need to be educated better?! the palestinian children need to not be indoctrinated by terrorist groups!

Define the word terrorist ?? please...before responding please take this into account...

Your two year old sister.. is out playing with your brother aged of five years old... they are playing in waste ground with many hazards... then some army solders storm around the corner then shoot them thinking they are terrorists....

How would you feel and how would you respond... ?

I guess the media and education is provided my right wingers... of which is only normally suited to members of the klu klux klan.... END OFF ...

huntjd
14-07-2006, 04:53 PM
im fucking jewish you dick. don't ever implicate me being klu klux klan. its not funny and i see no reason why that should allow you to keep your account when you are blatantly racist and anti-semitic.

army soldiers storm around corner killing little children.... thats a little dramatic isn't it? i'm trying to remember when the israeli army has shot dead five and two year old children. I CAN'T! BECAUSE THATS NEVER HAPPENED. using such examples shows you have absolutely no clue about the situation or politics unlike everyone else that posts in this forum. get your facts straight then post. don't over dramatise for empathy.

when i refer to terrorist i refer to hamas and islamic jihad and the like. not everyday palestinians or muslims of which several of my friends are, they are peaceful. its just unfortunate that these orginisations are able to publish books that are anti-israel then give them to school children. i have seen these books with my own eyes so don't question the authenticity.

GazeboflossUK
14-07-2006, 04:57 PM
live in israel, have friends there, hear about the suicide bombings of pizza restaurants, go to a funeral of a murdered teenager. then you will see both sides of the equation and not the totally leftist view of backing the underdog.

You can make this point and I see where you are coming from with it.....but to be fair.....to live in a country doesn't always give that person the correct view of things. Look at America at the moment.....their constitution is being eroded before their very eyes, yet many there refuse to see it. However, the numbers who are realising it are steadily growing there, thankfully.

To live alongside and witness such horiffic events mostly sparks hatred for whoever is told to be behind the attack......often rage and pain blinds people from truths and other possibilities........look at 9/11 - that's a major example.

Also, to make one thing clear, I'm not anti-jew anything of the sort.......the problem lies with criminal government elements in multiple regions and their pre-meditated design for the certian parts of the world.

huntjd
14-07-2006, 05:01 PM
its the US. unfortunately israel is in a sticky situation and has to follow the US in what the US wants in the region or israel doesn't get money from the united states government. *i'm sure you already know this*

heck i know what you mean about not being there. if i had the option id vote out the republicans and put in the democrats. at least they could fire rifles and annunciate words such as iraq and nuclear. lol.

i'm going to bed now. its 2am here in aus. good talking to you gareth- you have alot to share. (still feel guilty about my earlier accusations:embarassed:)

GazeboflossUK
14-07-2006, 05:05 PM
Hahaha,

....well Democrats are probably just as bad to be honest....when a RICH major Republican supporter (Rupert Murdoch) starts supporting Hilary Clinton and the Democrats you know there's something amiss.

Both parties are controlled by the same central banks....scary when you haven't got a real choice anymore...:(

huntjd
14-07-2006, 05:14 PM
true. that is quite worrysome. :stunned:

bart
14-07-2006, 05:19 PM
im fucking jewish you dick. don't ever implicate me being klu klux klan. its not funny and i see no reason why that should allow you to keep your account when you are blatantly racist and anti-semitic.

army soldiers storm around corner killing little children.... thats a little dramatic isn't it? i'm trying to remember when the israeli army has shot dead five and two year old children. I CAN'T! BECAUSE THATS NEVER HAPPENED. using such examples shows you have absolutely no clue about the situation or politics unlike everyone else that posts in this forum. get your facts straight then post. don't over dramatise for empathy.

when i refer to terrorist i refer to hamas and islamic jihad and the like. not everyday palestinians or muslims of which several of my friends are, they are peaceful. its just unfortunate that these orginisations are able to publish books that are anti-israel then give them to school children. i have seen these books with my own eyes so don't question the authenticity.

I thought as much... its a pity they wont let you know the TRUTH... of what happens..
you dont even have too look to far for it...
go on www.bbc.co.uk/news for a balanced reports on these issues...
and I was not saying you are apart of the klu klux klan btw...
and as for calling me a dick.... thanks !

berrywoman
14-07-2006, 06:59 PM
hot topic here, I know...

lets all try to be respectful of one another's views and keep the name calling to an minimum if none at all.

--as the days progress, I am sure this situation is only going to get hotter, so lets all try to be mindful of the forum rules and guidelines.. and try to educate one another.... instead of insulting each other.

cheers!

jordbean5
14-07-2006, 08:16 PM
hot topic here, I know...

lets all try to be respectful of one another's views and keep the name calling to an minimum if none at all.

--as the days progress, I am sure this situation is only going to get hotter, so lets all try to be mindful of the forum rules and guidelines.. and try to educate one another.... instead of insulting each other.

cheers!

good idea.

i have been reading through this thread, and both sides of the argument are respectable. your average CP forum person has no control over what anyones government does.

Matter-Eater Lad
14-07-2006, 08:54 PM
A world where Isreal have three soldiers captured and use it as an excuse to go all out on a massive offensive.

And also, why is it that everytime the Isreal, U.S or the U.K attack and use force it's called 'liberation' or similar.....but when palistine or any Islamic nation attacks it's 'terrorsim'?? Even if the US or UK are the initial aggressor....

Yeah, they have every right to attack back when attacked by terrorist. Its any countries right to do that.

Matter-Eater Lad
14-07-2006, 08:55 PM
1 - That's utterly false, Israels military actions are NOT always in self defence, protecting thier citizens.

2 - Not 'Liberation' in Isreals case but it's never called terrorsim

Yeah you're right, they just like fighting. THey are not threatened by the terrorist attacking them all the time....:rolleyes:

Matter-Eater Lad
14-07-2006, 08:57 PM
When terrorist pigs are attacking a nation because they wanna kill every jew, they have a right to fight back. The terrorist are trying to do a holocaust, the only difference is this time the jews are more powerful. so the jews are defending themselves from racist pigs trying to do a modern day holocaust.

ugadawg5
14-07-2006, 10:22 PM
what is wrong with being rich gazeboflossuk? rich people get rich by being smart, working hard, and not getting into drugs and such. there are always exceptions, but success comes from hard work. Envy of the rich will do no good. Instead aspire to build your life the way most rich people have.

Matter-Eater Lad
14-07-2006, 10:25 PM
what is wrong with being rich gazeboflossuk? rich people get rich by being smart, working hard, and not getting into drugs and such. there are always exceptions, but success comes from hard work. Envy of the rich will do no good. Instead aspire to build your life the way most rich people have.

Exactly. :cool:

huntjd
15-07-2006, 02:34 AM
I thought as much... its a pity they wont let you know the TRUTH... of what happens..
you dont even have too look to far for it...
go on www.bbc.co.uk/news (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news) for a balanced reports on these issues...
and I was not saying you are apart of the klu klux klan btw...
and as for calling me a dick.... thanks !

yeah i never said i can't see both sides of the argument. theres radicals on both sides who make some bad ill informed choices. this whole thing is likud. if labor was still in power and rabin wasn't assasinated the middle east would be alot more peaceful.

thanks for the bbc link btw has some good reporting. in regards to anti-semitism and racism. i think both of us should leave it behind us as berrywoman said and focus on enriching our minds to the other side of the equation so we have a balanced perpective

Ambergris
15-07-2006, 04:01 AM
army soldiers storm around corner killing little children.... thats a little dramatic isn't it? i'm trying to remember when the israeli army has shot dead five and two year old children. I CAN'T! BECAUSE THATS NEVER HAPPENED. using such examples shows you have absolutely no clue about the situation or politics unlike everyone else that posts in this forum. get your facts straight then post. don't over dramatise for empathy.

He's not dramatising anything, Israeli invasion to Gaza has already killed many innocent civilians included kids, just like 3 days ago, a marriage and its 7 kids died because of one soildier that bombed their home. In Lebanon already died like 64 people, mostly poor who live near the border with Israel... It is obvious that Israeli actions are totally irreflective and its attacks indiscriminated bombing whatever they can, even the infrastructure and civilian places.

Who the heck is going to stop them? this brutal assault will just bring more problems for the whole area, reciently Iran menaced Israel with strong actions if its army gets into Syria also...

Matter-Eater Lad
15-07-2006, 04:08 AM
He's not dramatising anything, Israeli invasion to Gaza has already killed many innocent civilians included kids, just like 3 days ago, a marriage and its 7 kids died because of one soildier that bombed their home. In Lebanon already died like 64 people, mostly poor who live near the border with Israel... It is obvious that Israeli actions are totally irreflective and its attacks indiscriminated bombing whatever they can, even the infrastructure and civilian places.

Who the heck is going to stop them? this brutal assault will just bring more problems for the whole area, reciently Iran menaced Israel with strong actions if its army gets into Syria also...

Thats sad, but israel has a right to attack its attackers. In war innocent people die, that is truly sad, but the evil ones arent the ones defending themselves. people seem to think the terrorist are the good ones and the freedom fighters, while the israeli's are the bad ones.

If anyone is to be blamed or mad at, it is nations like iran, and terrorist groups attackign nations and stirring up trouble. but for some odd reason, people dont like and side with israel...i cant figure out why...:rolleyes: its like they dont like the people for some odd reason....:rolleyes:

Ambergris
15-07-2006, 04:18 AM
Thats sad, but israel has a right to attack its attackers. In war innocent people die, that is truly sad, but the evil ones arent the ones defending themselves. people seem to think the terrorist are the good ones and the freedom fighters, while the israeli's are the bad ones.

If anyone is to be blamed or mad at, it is nations like iran, and terrorist groups attackign nations and stirring up trouble. but for some odd reason, people dont like and side with israel...i cant figure out why...:rolleyes: its like they dont like the people for some odd reason....:rolleyes:

Damn, you think like a wild animal... obviously you have no idea what war is like but you feel with authority to talk about it since your country has acted in many but actually it hasn't had one in its own territory.

Its very stupid to say someone or a country has the right to attack after being attacked because that just would be the destruction of everything known. WE'RE HUMANS! (CONSCIENT ANIMALS) d'you even know about DIPLOMACY AND TALK? you cannot be so stupid to not understand this...

This just happens because people with your mentality is in the power and that is so sad... please NEVER postulate yourself for president...

Matter-Eater Lad
15-07-2006, 05:08 AM
Damn, you think like a wild animal... obviously you have no idea what war is like but you feel with authority to talk about it since your country has acted in many but actually it hasn't had one in its own territory.

Its very stupid to say someone or a country has the right to attack after being attacked because that just would be the destruction of everything known. WE'RE HUMANS! (CONSCIENT ANIMALS) d'you even know about DIPLOMACY AND TALK? you cannot be so stupid to not understand this...

This just happens because people with your mentality is in the power and that is so sad... please NEVER postulate yourself for president...

We've had a war on our own territory, we have been attacked several times in on our own territory. its not stupid for a nation to defend itself when attacked.

if more people had my mentality, we wouldnt have ww1 or 2 and 3 wouldnt be on its way.....i understand a nation has a right and a duty to defend itself when attacked, you seem not to think so......if leaders thought like you, we'd be screwed. actaully leader did think like you and hilter almost won ww2. The fact is you cant just ignore an enemy, you have to defend your nation. nothing wrong or evil about that. every nation has a right to do that, and every nation should. just like i have a right to protect myself when someones trying to break into my house. israel is doing the right thing, they were attacked, they are defending themselves.

people you dont seem to understand how the world works, and people like you only make things worse. we have too many leaders in europe and other parts of the world, who wont stand up to these enemies, and when they do, they are evil and wrong, and bad.....i guess the exact same thing would have happened if america or any other nation tried to stop hitler before ww2. but mark my words, ww3 or for considering how you count the cold war, is on its way. and yet again the morons of this world, think ignoring it and looking the other way will make things better and go away. but atleast a few nations know they have to stand up and fight for their freedom and to protect themselves. something that other nations are going to have to do in teh future but at a far greater price because of their appeasement. someone could have nipped hitler and ww2 in the bud, if they had the courage to do it, sadly like now days, people think its evil and wrong. maybe we could send all these terrorist groups and nation a big thing of flowers and chocolate and we can all get along?

So if smart thinking is thinking like a wild animal, then i guess so. but atleast a wild animal, well most know when threatened they have to do something about it, instead of pretending everything is ok.

berrywoman
15-07-2006, 05:10 AM
whats this turmoil really about though.... I'm not very educated on this situation. Is it for land?

Matter-Eater Lad
15-07-2006, 05:18 AM
whats this turmoil really about though.... I'm not very educated on this situation. Is it for land?

If you have to ask, you're too far gone. Its about hate. These terrorist groups and their supporters like iran and syria want nothing more then a modern day holocaust, to kill the jews and destroy their nation. it is not about land, its about hate. because if israel was to go away, the land would be carved up by the arab nations and the palestinians would be treated badly still but this time by other arab nations.

Iran wants to fuck things up in this area for israel. they cant take israel on in a full out war, but they can do alot through terrorism. Its quite possible though, they want to draw israel into a war in which they would face iran and syria, although thats unlikely, seeing as how israel would still win.

berrywoman
15-07-2006, 05:22 AM
I stopped reading after the first sentence.....



there's a reason they hate each other.. and its not just religion... this is what I am asking.... :rolleyes: they've hated each other for centuries!!!!!!! I want to know the deep root of this conflict... thats why I ask if it started over land...



and I am being completely honest here... I have no background knowledge on this issue because I have always steered clear of it.... I'm not being facetious..

Matter-Eater Lad
15-07-2006, 05:24 AM
I stopped reading after the first sentence.....



there's a reason they hate each other.. and its not just religion... this is what I am asking.... :rolleyes: they've hated each other for centuries!!!!!!! I want to know the deep root of this conflict... thats why I ask if it started over land...



and I am being completely honest here... I have no background knowledge on this issue because I have always steered clear of it.... I'm not being facetious..

Thats why you dont know much about the world. you dont have the stomach to learn about it.

I FUCKING TOLD YOU THE DEEP ROOT OF THE CONFLICT. HATE. the muslim want to kill the jews, the jews are the most hated group of people ever, and always have been.

its not about land, its about one side wanting to kill another because of hate.

berrywoman
15-07-2006, 05:27 AM
fuck you. I don't have the stomach for the fuckin truth!! tell me that when you've walked a day in my shoes... you punk!


as for your side of the story.... I'll wait to see how others reply to my plea... when your story can be verified by someone a bit more 'trustworthy' then I'll believe you.... but dont tell me what I have and have not the stomach for.....

Matter-Eater Lad
15-07-2006, 05:31 AM
fuck you. I don't have the stomach for the fuckin truth!! tell me that when you've walked a day in my shoes... you punk!


as for your side of the story.... I'll wait to see how others reply to my plea... when your story can be verified by someone a bit more 'trustworthy' then I'll believe you.... but dont tell me what I have and have not the stomach for.....

HAHAHA again you have proven my point.

ok lets use reason, shall we? if it was about land, why did they all of a sudden want the land when the jews came? why was there no push for freedom when they were being mistreated by other arab nations? All of a sudden when the jews arrive and have a nation they claim they want a palestine....

berrywoman
15-07-2006, 05:34 AM
someone told me once that it dates back to the time of Moses... when he led the Jews out of Israel... then I suppose the Palestinians moved in... and then the Jews wanted their land back because the 'bible' said that the 'holy land' is theirs etc... something to those extremes.... I understand the hatred stems from beliefs.. and religion... I just want to understand. Beyond the bombings.. beyond the terror...

Matter-Eater Lad
15-07-2006, 05:39 AM
someone told me once that it dates back to the time of Moses... when he led the Jews out of Israel... then I suppose the Palestinians moved in... and then the Jews wanted their land back because the 'bible' said that the 'holy land' is theirs etc... something to those extremes.... I understand the hatred stems from beliefs.. and religion... I just want to understand. Beyond the bombings.. beyond the terror...


Its simple hatred. Thats why. like i said, you'll probably ignore this because it calls for the use of reason, there was no movement for a palestine when they were under muslim control and were being mistreated, but when the people they hate control the land, they want to kill them.

berrywoman
15-07-2006, 05:44 AM
someone told me once that it dates back to the time of Moses... when he led the Jews out of Israel... then I suppose the Palestinians moved in... and then the Jews wanted their land back because the 'bible' said that the 'holy land' is theirs etc... something to those extremes.... I understand the hatred stems from beliefs.. and religion... I just want to understand. Beyond the bombings.. beyond the terror...

^what part of this do YOU not understand.... I just agreed with you on that part you nit! But there has to be more than just the hate.... :rolleyes:

Matter-Eater Lad
15-07-2006, 05:46 AM
[/B][/COLOR]

^what part of this do YOU not understand.... I just agreed with you on that part you nit! But there has to be more than just the hate.... :rolleyes:

ok ok, so if its more then hate. what? if it was more then just hate there would have been efforts to form a palestine before the jews came. Hate is the biggest reason behind all of the problems, and religion. those 2 things are really the only things behind it.

LiquidSky
15-07-2006, 05:57 AM
From what I could hear from the tv news and what I understood (keep in mind that my neices were yelling and couldn't listen properly since there was a lot of noise in the room) was that besides from the dislike of each other...Lebanon captured some Israeli people which made the Israeli people upset and then it was called for war.. just when Lebanon was replying back, trying and saying to keep peace the Israelis started bombing Lebanon. Lebanon is now calling help from the United Nations and US but Bush in other words said to let them fight and to keep civilians out of their way as if that's going to happen....

Let me know if anything I said was wrong..because I also want to know

ugadawg5
15-07-2006, 06:08 AM
you are right up to the point where you talk about lebanon being bombed. the lebanese govt is mostly free from blame. hezbollah controls most of what goes on in lebanon. kind of like the taliban of lebanon. hezbollah is funded and directed by syria and iran. so in summation, Israel is retaliating against hezbollah in lebanon.

Ambergris
15-07-2006, 06:14 AM
We've had a war on our own territory, we have been attacked several times in on our own territory. its not stupid for a nation to defend itself when attacked.

if more people had my mentality, we wouldnt have ww1 or 2 and 3 wouldnt be on its way.....i understand a nation has a right and a duty to defend itself when attacked, you seem not to think so......if leaders thought like you, we'd be screwed. actaully leader did think like you and hilter almost won ww2. The fact is you cant just ignore an enemy, you have to defend your nation. nothing wrong or evil about that. every nation has a right to do that, and every nation should. just like i have a right to protect myself when someones trying to break into my house. israel is doing the right thing, they were attacked, they are defending themselves.

people you dont seem to understand how the world works, and people like you only make things worse. we have too many leaders in europe and other parts of the world, who wont stand up to these enemies, and when they do, they are evil and wrong, and bad.....i guess the exact same thing would have happened if america or any other nation tried to stop hitler before ww2. but mark my words, ww3 or for considering how you count the cold war, is on its way. and yet again the morons of this world, think ignoring it and looking the other way will make things better and go away. but atleast a few nations know they have to stand up and fight for their freedom and to protect themselves. something that other nations are going to have to do in teh future but at a far greater price because of their appeasement. someone could have nipped hitler and ww2 in the bud, if they had the courage to do it, sadly like now days, people think its evil and wrong. maybe we could send all these terrorist groups and nation a big thing of flowers and chocolate and we can all get along?

So if smart thinking is thinking like a wild animal, then i guess so. but atleast a wild animal, well most know when threatened they have to do something about it, instead of pretending everything is ok.

Man you reaally have no ethics, I guess you miss that subject in America's schools...

You always use the Hitler example as a justification for your country's actual actions, believing your country was a saviour. But once again if you understand history you know why Hitler got the power he got from German people, that at the time felt humulliated and prone to the consecuencies of the 1st world war... Everything bad that happens today its just a consecuence of the bad things that happened already. Even you, a moron should know that this is a vicious-destructive circle that will lead people to anything but myssery, wars just bring more and more war... and you're still so idiotic to justify it. War doesn't solve anything: The disputes in our actual world root deeply in our most basic differences, like nationality, whealty, poberty, race, religion... We need a TOTAL change of mind if we ever want to stop these problems but so far the best we can do is realise it and try to speak, help each other, NEVER to preech violence, then people wouldn't have to fight to be heared... but I totally understand for mediocre people like you is way more easy to use brutal force killing tons of people to solve things just temporaly.

Just take a look on Africa, a lot of bad things happen there and it seems is very difficult for the most rich countries to give some money and help that people who are in total disgrace, YEAH PEOPLE... first than countries and companies. We're humans who think and are able to help each other.

You're not even smart and how you talk now just shows how selfish and unconcious you are, now that you like to mention Hitler a lot, I say people like you are potential megalomaniacs like him.

Ambergris
15-07-2006, 06:17 AM
you are right up to the point where you talk about lebanon being bombed. the lebanese govt is mostly free from blame. hezbollah controls most of what goes on in lebanon. kind of like the taliban of lebanon. hezbollah is funded and directed by syria and iran. so in summation, Israel is retaliating against hezbollah in lebanon.

Oh yes and obviously the national airport was Hezbollah'smain base so Israel needed to bomb it... there was a very famous bridge there in Lebanon that took years to construct, like a great achieve for the country. And now is destroyed, I guess is because some terrorist were hidding there...

Matter-Eater Lad
15-07-2006, 06:26 AM
From what I could hear from the tv news and what I understood (keep in mind that my neices were yelling and couldn't listen properly since there was a lot of noise in the room) was that besides from the dislike of each other...Lebanon captured some Israeli people which made the Israeli people upset and then it was called for war.. just when Lebanon was replying back, trying and saying to keep peace the Israelis started bombing Lebanon. Lebanon is now calling help from the United Nations and US but Bush in other words said to let them fight and to keep civilians out of their way as if that's going to happen....

Let me know if anything I said was wrong..because I also want to know

Good, israel has a right to do something about them attacking israel. you people act like its evil for israel to do something about terrorist and other nations attacking it. like it doesnt have a right ot fight back.

Matter-Eater Lad
15-07-2006, 06:29 AM
Man you reaally have no ethics, I guess you miss that subject in America's schools...

You always use the Hitler example as a justification for your country's actual actions, believing your country was a saviour. But once again if you understand history you know why Hitler got the power he got from German people, that at the time felt humulliated and prone to the consecuencies of the 1st world war... Everything bad that happens today its just a consecuence of the bad things that happened already. Even you, a moron should know that this is a vicious-destructive circle that will lead people to anything but myssery, wars just bring more and more war... and you're still so idiotic to justify it. War doesn't solve anything: The disputes in our actual world root deeply in our most basic differences, like nationality, whealty, poberty, race, religion... We need a TOTAL change of mind if we ever want to stop these problems but so far the best we can do is realise it and try to speak, help each other, NEVER to preech violence, then people wouldn't have to fight to be heared... but I totally understand for mediocre people like you is way more easy to use brutal force killing tons of people to solve things just temporaly.

Just take a look on Africa, a lot of bad things happen there and it seems is very difficult for the most rich countries to give some money and help that people who are in total disgrace, YEAH PEOPLE... first than countries and companies. We're humans who think and are able to help each other.

You're not even smart and how you talk now just shows how selfish and unconcious you are, now that you like to mention Hitler a lot, I say people like you are potential megalomaniacs like him.

I have ethics. i just know being ignorant and appeasing the enemies and ignoring problems ONLY causes more useless loss of innocent lives. thats the difference between you and i. history has shown me that. you wanna talk about ethic, people with your mind set in the end only cause more loss of human life.

people had your mind set in europe pre ww2, and because of that tens of millions died when it could have been only a few million. mind set like yours only causes more loss of life in the end.

you wanna talk about ethics, lets talk about a modern day holocuast the muslims are trying to do, and im the bad one for saying israel has a right to stop this? yeah whose the one without ethics? what are you going to say next? if the jews tried to stop the first holocaust they would have been doing evil?

Ambergris
15-07-2006, 06:32 AM
Good, israel has a right to do something about them attacking israel.

Hey, now that made a lot of sense, uhou :wacko:


you people act like its evil for israel to do something about terrorist and other nations attacking it. like it doesnt have a right ot fight back.

Maybe, but the international comunity needs to protest and raise its voice when it comes to something affecting THOUSANDS of innocents civilians, actions like Israel's violate internation treaties, signed long time ago.

Matter-Eater Lad
15-07-2006, 06:35 AM
Hey, now that made a lot of sense, uhou :wacko:



Maybe, but the international comunity needs to protest and raise its voice when it comes to something affecting THOUSANDS of innocents civilians, actions like Israel's violate internation treaties, signed long time ago.

again, you think israel is wrong for trying to stop a modern day holocuast. thats sick.

Ambergris
15-07-2006, 06:43 AM
If there's any actual antisemitism for the Jew people, would be simply a product of the irreflective, wrong politics the Israeli goverment has been aplying during years in the Middle East... just as simply as that.

Matter-Eater Lad
15-07-2006, 07:29 AM
If there's any actual antisemitism for the Jew people, would be simply a product of the irreflective, wrong politics the Israeli goverment has been aplying during years in the Middle East... just as simply as that.

antisemitism has been around for thousands of years. the jews are and have been the most hated people in earth's history. the only antisemitism is coming from europe and the muslims. you dont seem to realize this simple fact. and im the un-ethical one for not being anti semetic and/or not going with the flow of things and being agaisnt the jews.

berrywoman
15-07-2006, 11:17 AM
ok ok, so if its more then hate. what? if it was more then just hate there would have been efforts to form a palestine before the jews came. Hate is the biggest reason behind all of the problems, and religion. those 2 things are really the only things behind it.

THATS WHAT i AM TRYING TO FIND OUT!! :rolleyes:

berrywoman
15-07-2006, 11:34 AM
From what I could hear from the tv news and what I understood (keep in mind that my neices were yelling and couldn't listen properly since there was a lot of noise in the room) was that besides from the dislike of each other...Lebanon captured some Israeli people which made the Israeli people upset and then it was called for war.. just when Lebanon was replying back, trying and saying to keep peace the Israelis started bombing Lebanon. Lebanon is now calling help from the United Nations and US but Bush in other words said to let them fight and to keep civilians out of their way as if that's going to happen....

Let me know if anything I said was wrong..because I also want to know


no, you're right... thats what has prempted this 'attack' and 'open war' between the two.. this time. But I'm trying to find out the deep root of their hate... and I am pretty sure it dates back to BC times..

ugadawg5
15-07-2006, 03:35 PM
Oh yes and obviously the national airport was Hezbollah'smain base so Israel needed to bomb it... there was a very famous bridge there in Lebanon that took years to construct, like a great achieve for the country. And now is destroyed, I guess is because some terrorist were hidding there...

first of all, take your emotions off of your sleave regarding the bridge and airport. the runways were bombed to deny hezbollah the ability to rearm through air transport from syria/iran. the bridge was a hezbollah gateway, so yes, it was bombed. do you really think that Israel should worry about the architectural wonder of a bridge that enables hezbollah free movement?

Israel is right on. hezbollah is a puppet for Iran and Syria and Israel must be strong against them to ward off future attacks. a strong response is the only response Iran and Syria will respect. Israel should have done this years ago. I hope they do take out Syria and that goofy-looking bastard al-assad.

berrywoman
15-07-2006, 03:37 PM
nice.

Jenjie
15-07-2006, 04:25 PM
The BBC has pulled together an interesting set of quotes from news agencies in the Middle East.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/5182796.stm

GazeboflossUK
15-07-2006, 10:16 PM
Royal Navy ships head for Lebanon
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40627000/jpg/_40627725_hms_illustrious203.jpg

Defence Secretary Des Browne has given orders for HMS Illustrious and HMS Bulwark to "make ready" for operations off Lebanon.
The pair will depart as soon as necessary, possibly within 24 hours.

No order for evacuating UK citizens has yet been given, but ministers and defence staff are considering a plan to evacuate those trapped in Lebanon.

It comes as Israel has stepped up its strikes in Lebanon after Hezbollah militants seized two Israeli soldiers.

'Contingency planning'

HMS Illustrious is currently in Gibraltar and HMS Bulwark is close to Barcelona in Spain.

The decision whether to proceed with an evacuation plan has not yet been taken and no orders have been given.

The Foreign Office has urged British citizens to keep a low profile and warned against travelling there.

"We are also advising British nationals to get ready for departure at short notice if the situation changes including by having travel documents in order," a spokesman said.

Meetings on the evacuation plan are taking place at the Ministry of Defence.

An MoD spokeswoman said the two ships had been given "no specific tasking", but added: "As you would expect we are monitoring the situation closely and are engaging in prudent contingency planning."

"As part of this HMS Illustrious and HMS Bulwark will shortly head towards the region," she said.

'Planes and bombs'

Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert has said the offensive against Lebanese targets will continue until Hezbollah releases the soldiers and stops firing rockets at Israel.

British student Karen Wild from Sheffield, who is in the Lebanese capital, Beirut, told BBC News 24 that she did "not feel safe".

She said she had spoken to the British embassy in Beirut who had told her to "stay put, stay inside" for the time being.

"It is quite unnerving when you hear the planes and bombs coming," said the student of Arabic.

Ms Wild said fellow Canadian, Spanish and Italian students had been evacuated in the past few days.

There are several thousand Britons in Beirut. One who has got out of the city is student Angela Quatermaine, from Oxford.

She told the BBC: "The Lebanese have been so kind and friendly... they have been wonderful getting us out of Beirut."

Referring to the news that the two Royal Navy vessels were on standby, she said: "I don't know how they are going to get here as the port has been bombed... we'll believe it when we see it."

Marines aboard

BBC defence correspondent Paul Wood has said that 24 hours to get ready for sailing would be considered a "short turnaround" for the two ships.

He said that damage to the airport and port in Beirut meant it would be "difficult to get in".

"Any evacuation would be carried out in concert with other countries, led by the US," he added.

Mr Wood said HMS Bullwark had a contingent of 500 marines, which could be used to make beaches safe in the event of any evacuation.

HMS Illustrious has helicopters and fighter bombers on board, which again could be used to aid any evacuation.

'I don't know how they(Navy ships) are going to get here as the port has been bombed'

Angela Quatermaine, Oxford student

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/5184018.stm

Matter-Eater Lad
16-07-2006, 01:21 AM
someone needs to help israel out for once. israel and europe have the same enemies.

GazeboflossUK
16-07-2006, 01:31 AM
Good. someone needs to help israel out for once. israel and europe have the same enemies.

What?

Hmmm, it's quite concerning that your comments don't relate to the contents of the article - as this article is about the British Navy aiding British nationals in their attempts to escape the war zone - and it's not about "helping Israel out".

Reading Headlines isn't an effective way of gathering the whole story.

berrywoman
16-07-2006, 03:12 PM
amen brutha... amen!!

bart
16-07-2006, 07:56 PM
I know the perfect solution to sort the problem out.... and I post this as I listening to muse 'Assassin' seems to sum up what I want to post....

The kids of both isreal and palestine can not help their situation...
I say... set a date of July 1st 2036 and say the the oldies on both sides ... ACCEPTED IT & GET OVER IT... YOU WILL ALL BE ONE COUNTRY....


Presently and I mean no offence to people on here.... the Goverment of isreal are currerntly treating the people of palestine and the people around them like they was treated in the 2nd world war... not as a extreme as concentraction camps.... but I sure we have all watched the Pianist and Shindliest list.... and I would say they are being treateted the same.... by being hounded it what could be percived as Ghettos.. like they had in Warsaw.. and other Polish cities and wherever ever else the Nazi's invaded...


Their current actions are setting the world back 20 years... the russian prime minister was so right... in his stament what he made at the g8 and I think for ones... the US and isreali adminstration should listen to both the russians and the chinise for once for their point of view for this situation, the sitution in North Korea... and IRAQ... as so far they have done appaluing job in trying to resolve the problem.


There is so much I would like to say about this.... so much

Matter-Eater Lad
16-07-2006, 08:27 PM
Europe would never help israel out, that would go agaisnt everything european, their long tradition of anti-semetism. which basically that what this boils down to in the end.

berrywoman
16-07-2006, 08:36 PM
you had me at 'Shindliest list'....




:lol:

GazeboflossUK
16-07-2006, 10:52 PM
Europe would never help israel out, that would go agaisnt everything european, their long tradition of anti-semetism. which basically that what this boils down to in the end.

What on earth are you on about? That is NOT 'what it boils down to in the end'...


The inner circle of Europe and more so Britain is what has always been pulling the strings in your country.

All the deep rooted royals from the UK to Holland are the big players - from The British monarchy to Queen Beatrix of the Netherlands.......They all are in prime attendance at the Builderberg meatings every year and the U.N is essentially their outlet at present. The elite 'order' control everything.

The Order founded the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU).
The Order promoted the Bolshevik Revolution.
The Order has influenced the seminaries.
The Order has control of education.
The Order has links to the Federal Council of Churches.
The Order has as its member - George Bush.
The Order has control of the CIA.
The Order began and controls the in Peace Research Institute.
The Order founded the Institute for Policy Studies
The Order controls both the” conservative” Republican elements and the “liberal” Democratic elements.
The Order has control of Masonry.
The Order finances Communism.
The Order financed Hitler.
The Order with its European counterparts control international banking.

Matter-Eater Lad
16-07-2006, 11:03 PM
What on earth are you on about? That is NOT 'what it boils down to in the end'...


The inner circle of Europe and more so Britain is what has always been pulling the strings in your country.

All the deep rooted royals from the UK to Holland are the big players - from The British monarchy to Queen Beatrix of the Netherlands.......They all are in prime attendance at the Builderberg meatings every year and the U.N is essentially their outlet at present. The elite 'order' control everything.

The Order founded the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU).
The Order promoted the Bolshevik Revolution.
The Order has influenced the seminaries.
The Order has control of education.
The Order has links to the Federal Council of Churches.
The Order has as its member - George Bush.
The Order has control of the CIA.
The Order began and controls the in Peace Research Institute.
The Order founded the Institute for Policy Studies
The Order controls both the” conservative” Republican elements and the “liberal” Democratic elements.
The Order has control of Masonry.
The Order finances Communism.
The Order financed Hitler.
The Order with its European counterparts control international banking.


oh but it is. anti semetism is been huge in europe for thousands of years, something like that simply does not go away. something that deep within culture does not fade away. the jews have been blame, and hated and killed in europe for thousands of years. just like in modern america there still is dislike and distrust and sometimes hatred to african americans, because something that deep and huge never fades away.

this goes to show you REALLY do not know what you're talking about. because no country in europe pulls the strings in america. the simple fact that the elit in europe hate america for its power and rule over them, proves otherwise. Europe's "Elite" are the ones who want to control america but will never. they are jelous of america since ww2, because of the power we have held over europe. and the fact we had a huge war on many years with the soviet empire. but when it comes down to it, america pulls the strings in its own nation, and that REALLY pisses off the leaders of europe.

Alot of the troubles between europe and america come from different cultures, but the fact were on top, and have alot of control over europe, not vice versa

GazeboflossUK
16-07-2006, 11:04 PM
Media Helps Spin Every Attack into Anti-Iran Propaganda
Story of "Drone Attack" Plays Out Like a Game of "Telephone" Ending in "Iran Did It"

Initially the line was that an Israeli warship had been attacked by Hezbollah using unmanned drone aircraft laden with explosives. Presumably the follow-up would have been expected to be "hey, wait a minute, where did these guerrillas get such high-tech weapons?" which of course would be followed up on FOXNews and other government propaganda outlets with a resounding chorus of, "Iran, of course!"

That story never seemed to materialize, try as they might to use the situation to stir up anti-Hezbollah and anti-Iranian sentiment. At one point over the course of the weekend FOXNews did allege that the warship was in fact not a missle-carrying battle ship but a "civilian ship" that had been attacked. Drones being as common as they are these days (what with them flying all over California along the US-Mexico border for our "safety") people bought the drone story without considering any planned Iran subtext.

So the US-Israeli spin machine called on the media to step it up a notch, tranforming the drone into a super high-tech radar-guided missile, a C-802, which obviously was not only made in Iran but could only be launched with the careful assistance of an Elite band within the Iranian military.

"We can confirm that (the warship) was hit by an Iranian-made missile launched by Hezbollah. We see this as very profound fingerprint of Iranian involvement in Hezbollah," said Israeli Brigadier General Ido Nehushtan.

Do you hate Iran yet? Do you believe they are behind this yet? No? Well hold on tight and keep your eyes glued to your TV screens because war-fever has taken hold of the media and Washington and its not going to break until Iran is put in the hotseat.

corporate media propaganda
Israel Says Warship Attacked by Drone (http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/wire/sns-ap-israel-warship,1,7195707.story?coll=sns-ap-world-headlines)
Damaged Israeli warship hit by missile made in Iran (http://english.people.com.cn/200607/16/eng20060716_283531.html)
Militants' missile hits ship with Iranian troops' help (http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,19812259-601,00.html)

GazeboflossUK
16-07-2006, 11:08 PM
oh but it is. anti semetism is been huge in europe for thousands of years, something like that simply does not go away. something that deep within culture does not fade away. the jews have been blame, and hated and killed in europe for thousands of years. just like in modern america there still is dislike and distrust and sometimes hatred to african americans, because something that deep and huge never fades away.

I really think you've got this one wrong.....europe, mostly british controlled, will always essensially be behind Isreal because the people who jointly control America are deep within europe.

Matter-Eater Lad
16-07-2006, 11:15 PM
I really think you've got this one wrong.....europe, mostly british controlled, will always essensially be behind Isreal because the people who jointly control America are deep within europe.

See i can see their being elites in europe pulling the strings, im not doubting that at all, BUT Britian is not the ones controling it for the most part. the people who control america are not friends or allies with europe. on the surface we seem to be buddy buddy, but europe and america is controled by 2 different groups, who want to be on top.

I can see britian being pro israel because they side usualy with america, but the rest of europe still has deep ties to anti semetism and would never back israel. that will NEVER happen. israel and the jews are disliked way too much for most of europe to help them or back them.

europe and america are in a power struggle, europe wants to be back on top of the world. our leaders are in some ways enemies....although we have alot of the same enemies. i see europe and america more like 2 brothers fighting to be on top.

Matter-Eater Lad
16-07-2006, 11:17 PM
Media Helps Spin Every Attack into Anti-Iran Propaganda
Story of "Drone Attack" Plays Out Like a Game of "Telephone" Ending in "Iran Did It"

Initially the line was that an Israeli warship had been attacked by Hezbollah using unmanned drone aircraft laden with explosives. Presumably the follow-up would have been expected to be "hey, wait a minute, where did these guerrillas get such high-tech weapons?" which of course would be followed up on FOXNews and other government propaganda outlets with a resounding chorus of, "Iran, of course!"

That story never seemed to materialize, try as they might to use the situation to stir up anti-Hezbollah and anti-Iranian sentiment. At one point over the course of the weekend FOXNews did allege that the warship was in fact not a missle-carrying battle ship but a "civilian ship" that had been attacked. Drones being as common as they are these days (what with them flying all over California along the US-Mexico border for our "safety") people bought the drone story without considering any planned Iran subtext.

So the US-Israeli spin machine called on the media to step it up a notch, tranforming the drone into a super high-tech radar-guided missile, a C-802, which obviously was not only made in Iran but could only be launched with the careful assistance of an Elite band within the Iranian military.

"We can confirm that (the warship) was hit by an Iranian-made missile launched by Hezbollah. We see this as very profound fingerprint of Iranian involvement in Hezbollah," said Israeli Brigadier General Ido Nehushtan.

Do you hate Iran yet? Do you believe they are behind this yet? No? Well hold on tight and keep your eyes glued to your TV screens because war-fever has taken hold of the media and Washington and its not going to break until Iran is put in the hotseat.

corporate media propaganda
Israel Says Warship Attacked by Drone (http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/wire/sns-ap-israel-warship,1,7195707.story?coll=sns-ap-world-headlines)
Damaged Israeli warship hit by missile made in Iran (http://english.people.com.cn/200607/16/eng20060716_283531.html)
Militants' missile hits ship with Iranian troops' help (http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,19812259-601,00.html)


Iran is the evil one in this. the media does not have to spin it very much, because most american understand they are truly our enemy. iran is the biggest state sponser of terrorism in the world. and most of europe does not realize this but iran is their enemy too.

GazeboflossUK
16-07-2006, 11:17 PM
Blame Iran: Israel Attacks on Lebanon A Psy-Op to Push War on Iran

http://www.infowars.com/images2/promo/alamo/alex_blast_thumbnail.jpg
Listen to Alex's Jones great analysis (http://www.infowars.net/multimedia/audio/071406_alex_israel_call_in.mp3)

Former CIA Analyst Ray McGovern and others within the CIA told us in the next three or four months (and that was about a month ago) that that Israel would create provations to attack Iran and Syria and it would probably start somewere in Palestine.

Anything the Globalists do always has a cost-benefit analysis. They look at a whole spectrum of New World Order interests and then they consider if something is better for their interests in the short term and in the long term or is it worse for their interests. If something fits a whole string of New World Order interests then they will push it.

One of the major pursposes of all of these attacks and saber rattling is to distract the populations of Israel and the US. This is a domestic diversion in Israel for Ulmert who is in a lot of trouble and also for Bush who is in a lot of trouble in the US. This really is the build-up to the October surprise. This will probably be some kind of limited strike on Iran and then Israel is going to spearhead a plan break up Iraq in to three or four parts using the US military. This of course comes from Israel's own documents going back to the early 80's and the Pentagon's own documents, this is not our opinion, this is their own admission, that they want to break up Syria into three parts, that they want to break up Iran into as many as six to eight parts, that they want to break Afghanistan into four parts, and that they even want to break Egypt into two parts.

So this is the official plan and they do this by escalating, by undertaking these provocations. Every few months Israeli soldiers get killed or get captured sometimes every day in the midst of the back and forth violence they have going with the Palestinians. Right now they're just hyping this and turning this into a big deal.

When the Israelis drop a thousand pound bomb on a neighborhood and kill 65 people at a pop, its loving and sweet and good because those are "sub-human Arabs" (or so the Media portrays) but when a suicide bomber blows themselves up (the few times its real and not a Mossad or Shin Bet operation, and by the way thats Israeli newspapers admitting their governments are creating fake Al Qaeda groups, Hamas groups, others), then we hear stories about the evil terrorists, the greatest evil in the world and I just refuse to be a part of this hypocritical propaganda any longer.

This is a clear provocation. Two weeks ago we heard when the first Israeli soldier got grabbed that Syria was running it all. Syria has been licking our boots, rolling over, arresting whoever Israel and the US say for some time now - its really pretty pathetic - so now they are trying to claim that they are behind these so-called kidnappings and its a transparent and total fraud.

Expanding out from there, now the Israeli military says that Iran has the two newest captured Israeli soldiers or that Hezbollah is trying to transfer them over there. Now this is the same Israeli government that through the ADL out of Canada put out the propaganda a few months a go that all Jews in Iran would soon be forced to wear yellow insignias on their coats, and that Christians would have to wear blue ones and Zoroastrians green ones.As it turns out this story has no connection to reality, its a total lie. Reuters and AP had to retract it. It was completely fabricated. It was an Iranian national law encouraging the government to give subsidies to textile companies that manufacture traditional Islamic dress. There was nothing in it about Jews, nothing in it about Christians it only said that companies over there would get a subsidy encouraging Islamic dress and not Levis. And BOOM thats translated into Stars of David to be worn by Jews. It is a total fraud just like the PR company who in 1990 hired the daughter of the company owner, who had never been to Kuwait, and had her make claims that she saw babies being thrown out of incubators, which of course turned out it was a total lie. We are being lied to over and over again.

Expanding on this, its about Israel being able to dominate that region with US control and help, its about turning off the spigots of oil. Historian Webster Tarpley agrees with that analysis, so does Investigative Journalist Greg Palast. We have the oil company documents that detail their plan to turn off the oil. Its about getting permanent bases there, its about taking over the whole region in the next "ten year plan" as they call it and then domestically its about a political distraction and a political football because in a war we have to get behind "our leaders." Israel is already saying they have to go all the way into southern Syria, then there can be some convenient attacks here in the US, and the government can claim that it was carried out by Hezbollah or Hamas, all of this stuff CIA controlled and a bit furthur down the rabbit hole and we will find ourselves invading Iran.

As a side note, let me make this comment, on the off chance than Mahmoud Ahmadinejad does produce two Israeli soldiers we then that he is a government agent. As we've been covering there is absolutely no way to transport soldiers from Syria over to Iran without being noticed. The whole area is filled with soldiers and fighter planes and there is a control grid blanket across the area.

Why do we say there is a chance, a good chance, a fifty-fifty chance that the whole Iran regime is a staged event. Our government in 1953 overthrew Mossadeq by using staged terror attacks. We put the Shah in, then in 1979 he gets overthrown. The CIA admittedly was involved with the overhrow, operating out of Paris. The CIA then flies in the Ayatollah Khomeini, who they had been protecting for decades, from Paris to Iran and suddenly he grabs a bunch of hostages. The crisi is all blamed on Jimmy Carter and Reagan, under the control of Bush Sr., former CIA director, signs a back-room deal for hundreds of millions in missile launchers, weapons guidence systems, and cash for the Iranians to hold the hostages until the day of Reagan's inauguration. As soon as Reagan take office, the hostages are released. Reagan comes out looking like a tough guy. It was all staged. We know Bill Clinton in 1998 sent 45 million dollars into Iran who then funded Al Qaeda. This is all in a public Senate report by the Republicans: the plan was to attack the Serbs, blow up school buses, attack schools, using Al CIAda who is always starting fires and doing the globalist bidding. The serbs fight back and Al Qaeda is forced to pull out. And so now we see Mahmoud Ahmadinejad doing everything he is supposed to.

Upon first review of the claims that Iran was going to receive the captured Israeli soldiers, it seemed completely far-fetched, but further consideration of the players involved in this conflict revealed exactly why Iran would take such a deadly step. We know that Israel controls Hammas. We know that Israel manipulates Hezbollah, so guaranteed there are many nexus points here, this only benfits israel and the globalist interests in the US. Ahmadinejad has been widely acclaimed as being involved in holding the captives back in the Jimmy Carter error under the Ayatollah Khomeini. We know that was a CIA operation. There is no debating that our government staged that with them and made a deal to hold it off until Reagan was in the Whitehouse. That is how sophisticated these people are.

Three years ago, many of Infowars' military sources indicated that any attacks of Iran would be limited and that the focus of any spread of the Iraq conflict would be on Syria. Now however those same sources are revealing that the conflict could encompass both Iran and Syria. At this point everything is up in the air. Ahmadinejad could be another Globalist setup like Saddam Hussein. Saddam was their boy from the time they hired him in 1954 and trained him as an assassin before moving him in 1969 to the head of Bathist security forces. The CIA made a deal to make him the head of security intelligence in trade for putting an end to their secret campaign to kill Iranian leaders. In 1979 the CIA staged a coup and put Saddam in power only to later set him up, telling him to go ahead and invade Kuwait so that they could pull the rug out from under him.

Again we know there are dealings between our government, Israel and Iran. We know that they've been in bed together before on attacking the Serbs and many other things but right now we don't know what they are going to pull. We just all have to be aware of these different ingredients.

Matter-Eater Lad
16-07-2006, 11:21 PM
again anti semetism. europe would side with any nation, other then a jewish one.

they complain more and hate more israel then their enemies....thats racism at its worst.

and what is truly sad is you stand up to defend one of the most evil and worst goverments around. the biggest sponser of terrorism. how can you support iran?

GazeboflossUK
16-07-2006, 11:28 PM
You haven't read what I posted......AND I'm not supporting Iran.

Jesus Christ!!! We (UK) and you (U.S) are forcing this one.....so that Iran becomes the enemy.....just like they wanted all along.....it's not about supporting Iran.

Calling it 'anti semitism' all the time is showing a real lack of understanding. It's too easy for you to dismiss it as 'anti semitism'.....what's up with that......I think you just like shouting that out.....that's not the way is works.

Matter-Eater Lad
16-07-2006, 11:31 PM
You haven't read what I posted......AND I'm not supporting Iran.

Jesus Christ!!! We (UK) and you (U.S) are forcing this one.....so that Iran becomes the enemy.....just like they wanted all along.....it's not about supporting Iran.

Iran IS the enemy. though, america does not have to force that. Iran is truly a threat to america and europe, and if we let them get nukes, then we are ALL in BIG trouble.

GazeboflossUK
16-07-2006, 11:39 PM
Iran IS the enemy. though, america does not have to force that. Iran is truly a threat to america and europe, and if we let them get nukes, then we are ALL in BIG trouble.

..........god.

1) "IRAN is the enemy!!" - the media and government have won you over there then....like all the other little like-minded sheep.

2) "NUKES, they got NUKES to kill us!!" - Again the media make you THINK they have nukes....when infact the experts say they couldn't make them for 10 years.
If you wan't to talk about stopping a current dictator/regime with the ability to use WMD then look at North Korea....they are FAR worse.

See, it's not about the "terrible Arabs people with WMD" it's about gaining control and money from the middle east.....it's wrtten in US documents that these wars are needed for an assertion of power.......that is REALLY what this is all about.....and if you think otherwise then your sadly wrong. All this anti-jew rubbish is a fake argument....it's a smoke screen to hide the real goings on.

Matter-Eater Lad
17-07-2006, 12:07 AM
..........god.

1) "IRAN is the enemy!!" - the media and government have won you over there then....like all the other little like-minded sheep.

2) "NUKES, they got NUKES to kill us!!" - Again the media make you THINK they have nukes....when infact the experts say they couldn't make them for 10 years.
If you wan't to talk about stopping a current dictator/regime with the ability to use WMD then look at North Korea....they are FAR worse.

See, it's not about the "terrible Arabs people with WMD" it's about gaining control and money from the middle east.....it's wrtten in US documents that these wars are needed for an assertion of power.......that is REALLY what this is all about.....and if you think otherwise then your sadly wrong. All this anti-jew rubbish is a fake argument....it's a smoke screen to hide the real goings on.

The media played no role, in knowing iran is the enemy. COMMON SENSE and knowing what their goverment does, stand fors and wants did that.

I know they dont have nukes, i NEVER SAID THEY DID. BUT they are on their way to getting them, and 10 years is still way too close. NK is not nearly as bad as iran is, iran is MUCH more of a threat then north korea will EVER be.

Im sorry but so much hatred towards the jews in europe, simply does not go away, and never will. like racism agaisnt black people in america. its deep within european culture.

GazeboflossUK
17-07-2006, 12:26 AM
Keep believing, but at a terrible price.

Matter-Eater Lad
17-07-2006, 12:37 AM
There will be a terrible price. the price we all will pay because europe is looking the other way. and huge war will happen.

GazeboflossUK
17-07-2006, 01:01 AM
That is NOT going to be the reason why a huge war will happen.

Europe looking the other way? show me this time.

GazeboflossUK
17-07-2006, 01:25 AM
Wildly disproportionate attack on Lebanon seems like pretext to confront Iran

Toronto Star | July 16, 2006 (http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar%2FLayout%2FArticle_ Type1&c=Article&cid=1152913812442)
by Linda McQuaig

As Israeli firepower rained down on Lebanon last week, pundits here in the West wasted no time pinning the blame on — Iran.

"Iran and its radical allies are pushing toward war," wrote Washington Post columnist David Ignatius.

Washington defence commentator Edward Luttwak weighed in: "Iran's leaders have apparently decided to reject the Western offer to peacefully settle the dispute over its weapons-grade uranium-enrichment program."

In fact, Iran's leaders haven't rejected the "Western offer;" they've said publicly they will respond to it by Aug. 22. This isn't fast enough however to satisfy Washington, which considers the "offer" more of an ultimatum.

Is it really Iran that is pushing for war? Think about it. Why would Iran want to provoke a war with Israel and the U.S. — both heavily armed nuclear powers — when it has no nuclear weapons itself?

The U.S. and Israel, on the other hand, are very keen to attack Iran. In a recent series of articles in New Yorker magazine, Pulitzer Prize-winning investigative journalist Seymour Hersh has detailed Washington's plans to attack Iran. Israel has called Iran a "major threat" that "must be stopped" from developing nuclear weapons.

But the U.S. and Israel don't want to look like aggressors. They insist their intentions are purely defensive. Recall that Washington also claimed its invasion of Iraq was purely defensive — to protect itself from Iraq's arsenal of deadly weapons, which, it turned out, didn't exist.

So when Hezbollah militants in southern Lebanon seized two Israeli soldiers last week, a perfect opportunity arose. Since Hezbollah has links to Iran, presto, here was a prima facie case that Iran was gunning for confrontation.

Did the Western pundits who quickly embraced this theory ever consider that the Hezbollah militants, as well as the Palestinian militants in Gaza who captured a single Israeli soldier last month, might have had their own motives for striking Israel?

Certainly the Palestinians have endless grievances against Israel. In addition to four decades of Israeli military occupation of their land, Israel has attempted to destroy the Hamas government, which was democratically elected by Palestinians last January.

Hezbollah's seizure of the two Israeli soldiers was probably an act of support for the Palestinians in Gaza, who have been under Israeli military siege since the capture of the first soldier. Hezbollah also said it seized the soldiers because it wanted to trade them for Lebanese prisoners held in Israeli jails. A similar Israeli-Hezbollah prisoner exchange took place in 2004.

Abandoning Canada's traditional role as an honest broker in the Middle East, Prime Minister Stephen Harper unabashedly supported Israel last week, calling its devastating attacks on Gaza and Lebanon "measured."

If Israel is simply trying to "defend" itself, its actions are wildly disproportionate.

On the other hand, if Israel and the U.S. are looking for an excuse to attack Iran, the capture of the Israeli soldiers is as good as any.



I'm not suprised Canada has gotten into bed with the US on this one.......PM Stephen Harper is bad news for Canadians.

Matter-Eater Lad
17-07-2006, 01:59 AM
That is NOT going to be the reason why a huge war will happen.

Europe looking the other way? show me this time.


The rise of terrorism, iran getting more powerful, getting ready to get a nuke, north korea with a nuke...they are ignoring very bad things that are happening. the rise of radical islam will be the new "nazism" as usual most the world is ignoring these thigns and looking the other way thinking if they ignore it, it will get better.

GazeboflossUK
17-07-2006, 02:02 AM
This stuff isn't being ignored exactly like you seem to think.

Matter-Eater Lad
17-07-2006, 02:04 AM
"If Israel is simply trying to "defend" itself, its actions are wildly disproportionate."

Oh, so they should respond next time with a few ww2 missiles.....the terrorist and lebanon are gettign what they asked for, they made the first move and attacked, now they are getting the shit bombed out of them for that, israel shouldnt have attack back disproportionately....there is no reason to. in war when an enemy attack you attack back the best you can....you dont tryto match what they are doing.



"On the other hand, if Israel and the U.S. are looking for an excuse to attack Iran, the capture of the Israeli soldiers is as good as any."

We dont need an excuse, Iran being THE BIGGEST sponser of terrorism, a huge threat to us and europe is reason enough...not to mention they are gonna have nukes if no one does anything about it.

your mind set is the same mindset of europe and most the world, and that mind set is the same as pre-ww2....if didnt have that mindset back then alot of shit could have been avoided......sadly you and most of the world has not changed or listened to the lessons history has tried to teach us

"those who do not learn from the past are doomed to repeat it"

just like america in iraq, we didnt learn lessons from vietnam and we are finding ourselves facing alot of the same crap we should have learned from.

Matter-Eater Lad
17-07-2006, 02:05 AM
This stuff isn't being ignored exactly like you seem to think.

its being ignored. no one is doing anythign about these things, when they have the power to nip this in the bud.

berrywoman
17-07-2006, 02:07 AM
oh but it is. anti semetism is been huge in europe for thousands of years, something like that simply does not go away. something that deep within culture does not fade away. the jews have been blame, and hated and killed in europe for thousands of years. just like in modern america there still is dislike and distrust and sometimes hatred to african americans, because something that deep and huge never fades away.
this goes to show you REALLY do not know what you're talking about. because no country in europe pulls the strings in america. the simple fact that the elit in europe hate america for its power and rule over them, proves otherwise. Europe's "Elite" are the ones who want to control america but will never. they are jelous of america since ww2, because of the power we have held over europe. and the fact we had a huge war on many years with the soviet empire. but when it comes down to it, america pulls the strings in its own nation, and that REALLY pisses off the leaders of europe.

Alot of the troubles between europe and america come from different cultures, but the fact were on top, and have alot of control over europe, not vice versa


^ this is the biggest crock of shit I have read from you yet!! lol keep up the good work there...

Matter-Eater Lad
17-07-2006, 02:10 AM
you're right, racism doesnt exist...its only against black people in america.

you were the one, who goes on about racism still being really bad in america....its the same way in the world.

something that old and deep within a society DOES NOT go away. it hasnt gone away in europe or in america and never will.

GazeboflossUK
17-07-2006, 02:19 AM
"If Israel is simply trying to "defend" itself, its actions are wildly disproportionate."

Oh, so they should respond next time with a few ww2 missiles.....the terrorist and lebanon are gettign what they asked for, they made the first move and attacked, now they are getting the shit bombed out of them for that, israel shouldnt have attack back disproportionately....there is no reason to. in war when an enemy attack you attack back the best you can....you dont tryto match what they are doing.



"On the other hand, if Israel and the U.S. are looking for an excuse to attack Iran, the capture of the Israeli soldiers is as good as any."

We dont need an excuse, Iran being THE BIGGEST sponser of terrorism, a huge threat to us and europe is reason enough...not to mention they are gonna have nukes if no one does anything about it.

your mind set is the same mindset of europe and most the world, and that mind set is the same as pre-ww2....if didnt have that mindset back then alot of shit could have been avoided......sadly you and most of the world has not changed or listened to the lessons history has tried to teach us

"those who do not learn from the past are doomed to repeat it"

just like america in iraq, we didnt learn lessons from vietnam and we are finding ourselves facing alot of the same crap we should have learned from.


no, no, no way.....you don't get to give me a 'history lesson'.

The facts are that the US is hell bent on attacking Iran and taking over another part of that region. The US carries out more outragous terrorism than Iran. What do you call destroying Iraq and killing thousands upon thousnads of people - all this on a big lie.

LEARN FROM THAT BIG MISTAKE!!! A LEARN IT WAS ALL FOR MONEY AND POWER!!

Iran has no where near been proved a massive threat......and all these 'terrorists cells' that are currently operating were either (a) created by the US or (b) formed in response to US or Isreali aggression.....i.e Hezbollah formed after Isreal went into southern Lebanon.

Whenever the US or the UK or Isreal carry out major attacks with lots of needless deaths it's called a good old war.........but when anyone else acts in the style of war it's labelled 'terrorism'.

We are not going to stand for this blatent attempt by the global superpowers to take over another part of the world.

berrywoman
17-07-2006, 02:24 AM
you're right, racism doesnt exist...its only against black people in america.

you were the one, who goes on about racism still being really bad in america....its the same way in the world.

something that old and deep within a society DOES NOT go away. it hasnt gone away in europe or in america and never will.

did I say that??? I just said that you talk alot of shit........ I know racsim hasn't diminished you nut head! I experience it everyday!!!! :angry: :rolleyes:

Matter-Eater Lad
17-07-2006, 02:24 AM
no, no, no.....you don't get to give me a 'history lesson'.

The facts are that the US is hell bent on attacking Iran and taking over another part of that region. The US carries out more outragous terrorism than Iran. What do you call destroying Iraq and killing thousands upon thousnads of people - all this on a big lie.

LEARN FROM THAT BIG MISTAKE!!! A LEARN IT WAS ALL FOR MONEY AND POWER!!

Iran has no where near been proved a massive threat......and all these 'terrorists cells' that are currently operating where either (a) created by the US or (b) formed in response to US or Isreali aggression.....i.e Hezbollah formed after Isreal went into southern Lebanon.

Whenever the US or the UK or Isreal carry out major attacks with lots of needless deaths it's called a good old war.........but when anyone else acts in the style of war it's labelled 'terrorism'.

We are not going to stand for this blatent attempt by the global superpowers to take over another part of the world.


So what if we want to attack iran? we have good reason too..nukes and they are the biggest sponser of terrorism. they are a threat to us and our allies. Iran IS a massive threat, terrorism being the biggest threat right now and they are biggets supporterse of that, the backbone of modern islamic terrorism, add a nuke into the equation and were all screwed.

No, because when other nations attack its not called terrorism. when saddam attacked kuwait that was not terrorism. if iran were to outright attack israel that would NOT be considered terrorism.

Its not about taking over the world, its about stopping a major war that is coming, the only problem is europe doesnt want to believe its coming.

Matter-Eater Lad
17-07-2006, 02:26 AM
did I say that??? I just said that you talk alot of shit........ I know racsim hasn't diminished you nut head! I experience it everyday!!!! :angry: :rolleyes:

Ok then. you seem to act like racism is only agaisnt your race and blacks. when its against all races. there will always be racism in america against blacks that will shape our politics and social issues, jsut like in europe, their main racism was against the jews...that will not stop. anti semetism will always shape european politics on issues that deal with jews, like in america on issues that deal with latino's or blacks.....you seem to think its only with latino's and black.

SO you're saying that anti semetism is not shaping europes outlook on israel?

GazeboflossUK
17-07-2006, 02:30 AM
No, it's about talking over the world. Stealing resources and killing as many people in the process it seems.

What you are saying about Iran is exactly what the mainstream media (who is owned by people who benefit from wars) is spouting out. It's sad that so mant people get lied to in such a way, Just like last time with Iraq.

berrywoman
17-07-2006, 02:35 AM
Ok then. you seem to act like racism is only agaisnt your race and blacks. when its against all races. there will always be racism in america against blacks that will shape our politics and social issues, jsut like in europe, their main racism was against the jews...that will not stop. anti semetism will always shape european politics on issues that deal with jews, like in america on issues that deal with latino's or blacks.....you seem to think its only with latino's and black.

SO you're saying that anti semetism is not shaping europes outlook on israel?


no shit! Racism is not just confined to minorities... lol I KNOW THIS!! :lol: You are sooooo funny!!


AND to be exact... I haven't even chosen a side in this whole middle east conflict.. it all seems so fucked up.. and I don't know the facts... so how does race come into this? AND for the record... this isn't about racisim.... Judisim (Jewish people) isn't a race.... its a religion.

Matter-Eater Lad
17-07-2006, 02:41 AM
no shit! Racism is not just confined to minorities... lol I KNOW THIS!! :lol: You are sooooo funny!!


AND to be exact... I haven't even chosen a side in this whole middle east conflict.. it all seems so fucked up.. and I don't know the facts... so how does race come into this? AND for the record... this isn't about racisim.... Judisim (Jewish people) isn't a race.... its a religion.

its all a race of people, jews can be a religion and/or a race of people......

you called what i said crap. i was saying europes poltical views are messed up because of their anti semetism against jews. just like america's polltical stance on most of africa is changed by its racism towards black people.

berrywoman
17-07-2006, 02:43 AM
Jewish isn't considered a race..... sorry. Only ignorant people would call it a race.... hell Hispanic isn't even a race... its an ethnicity!!!



I hate when people use that as an excuse.... Jewish not a RACE!!! Hellllooooooooooooo people.. its a religion.. as is Muslim.. as is Budahism.

Matter-Eater Lad
17-07-2006, 02:49 AM
Jewish isn't considered a race..... sorry. Only ignorant people would call it a race.... hell Hispanic isn't even a race... its an ethnicity!!!



I hate when people use that as an excuse.... Jewish not a RACE!!! Hellllooooooooooooo people.. its a religion.. as is Muslim.. as is Budahism.

its widely debated if they are a race. some consider them a ethic group....

GazeboflossUK
17-07-2006, 02:50 AM
its all a race of people, jews can be a religion and/or a race of people......

you called what i said crap. i was saying europes poltical views are messed up because of their anti semetism against jews. just like america's polltical stance on most of africa is changed by its racism towards black people.

You go on about 'europes poltical views are messed up because of their anti semetism against jews' too much man......

What do you call an anti-european???

Matter-Eater Lad
17-07-2006, 02:51 AM
You go on about 'europes poltical views are messed up because of their anti semetism against jews' too much man......

What do you call an anti-european???

A moron. i love europe with a passion. i love the land and the culture, and i have traced back where my family came from. i one day plan on living in europe. but their political system and beliefs are very messed up. their is so much history and culture in europe, along with great people. its my favorite continent.

GazeboflossUK
17-07-2006, 02:53 AM
A moron. i love europe with a passion. i love the land and the culture, and i have traced back where my family came from. i one day plan on living in europe. but their political system and beliefs are very messed up.

This coming from an American who lives with the most curupt of all political sytems.

.....not really having a go at you here.....didn't mean it to sound so personal.

Matter-Eater Lad
17-07-2006, 02:57 AM
This coming from an American who lives with the most curupt of all political sytems.

.....not really having a go at you here.....didn't mean it to sound so personal.

This is coming from a european who lives in an even more corrupt continent then mine....

GazeboflossUK
17-07-2006, 03:02 AM
haha.....lol

all I can say is North American Union......Open Borders......lots of fighting.......enjoy.

:)

berrywoman
17-07-2006, 04:32 AM
its widely debated if they are a race. some consider them a ethic group....


bottom line... its not. Its common sense.... :)

Matter-Eater Lad
17-07-2006, 07:43 AM
bottom line... its not. Its common sense.... :)

Well you're misinformed, so ill help you out. alot of people are still divided on this, and alot of people consider jew's a race, while other a ethic group, but none the less its widely debated. just because you dont think they are a race does not mean it isnt debated....:laugh3:

Matter-Eater Lad
17-07-2006, 07:44 AM
haha.....lol

all I can say is North American Union......Open Borders......lots of fighting.......enjoy.

:)

All i can say is europes gonna have it far worse when ww3 comes then america will.

berrywoman
17-07-2006, 04:16 PM
riggght. A lot of people also believe that the government works for us... doesn't mean its so.....

thats based on opinion.. but fact is.. its not a race. Its been connotated to be.. but its not. Matter of factly that is.

ugadawg5
17-07-2006, 04:42 PM
In regard to Lebanon, I think the general sentiment is that Israel is bombing a fledgling democracy back into the stone age. Also, that Israel is targeting civilians with their bombing of Lebanon. There are a few problems with these opinions though:

* Hezbollah operates out of Lebanon. The Israeli Air Force is bombing Hezbollah targets that have been constructed in civilian areas. Therefore, Hezbollah is guilty for putting Lebanese civilians in IAF crosshairs.

* Lebanon has been under a U.N. Mandate for years instructing its government to rid its country of Hezbollah. It is not that they have not been able to do it, it is that they have chosen not to do it.

- And to Berrywoman, my earlier comments regarding why that magnificent bridge and airport in Beirut were attacked was confirmed by a former U.S. General on CNN yesterday. FYI.

berrywoman
17-07-2006, 04:52 PM
when did I say otherwise???? :thinking:

I haven't even posted my opinion on this whole Israel/Lebanon/Palastine thing.... lol I love how everyone puts words into others mouths.. lol

my comment about evidence wasn't directed at you, love.. it was directed to the boy who called me a racist.. I asked him to prove where I said such racist remarks.. which I didn't! lol


:)

ugadawg5
17-07-2006, 06:51 PM
i was just writing down thoughts - i haven't even read the last three pages of this thread. no prob.

berrywoman
17-07-2006, 06:58 PM
;)

indanomati
17-07-2006, 07:21 PM
it's a big bowl of crap :angry: , wt is happeaning in the mid east now. both Hezbollah & Israel r very wrong in wt they r doin, i dun think it's fair wt's happeaning in lebanon, coz they lebanize gov. can't just control Hezbollah and tell them to stop wt they r doin, so the civilians r being bombed instead, and btw i dun think that Hezbollah is goin to stop wt they r doin, i have been watching a lot of news here in the mideast and Hezbollah seems to be determind to get rid of israel, i dunno how thats is gonna happean they, r just crazy. and the civilians now r living i terror coz of the whole thing.
and wt israel did i believe is too much, i mean bombing the airport, bombing civilan's homes .

i just wish both parties would just go to negotiations and try to work smth out, and put a bit of reasons in wt they r doin here, they should realize that they r killing inocent ppl.
probably i'm young here to speak about this but i just thought i should say smth here, and plus my country is next to the whole event, so.....

bart
17-07-2006, 07:37 PM
camille is not racist... I should not get involed... in her augmument... but I know I would be hurt if someone said that about me with me being mixed raced...
personally this problem would be solved if the whole world was made to mix with each other... until there was only one race left... we would all be brown.... and have all the benifits of being both black white chinise arabic anything it would all be for the best...

berrywoman
17-07-2006, 08:24 PM
:blush: thank you Daryl... oh and MUSE rocks.. :kiss:

GazeboflossUK
17-07-2006, 11:22 PM
Continued turmoil has given Israel the opportunity to began to physically move troops into southern Lebanon in addition to their persistant artillery strikes. Israel is reporting that Iran and Syria are the manufacturers of weapons used by Hezbollah and Hamas in strikes on Israeli targets furthering Israel's case for a war on those two countries.

Ambergris
18-07-2006, 02:15 AM
it's a big bowl of crap :angry: , wt is happeaning in the mid east now. both Hezbollah & Israel r very wrong in wt they r doin, i dun think it's fair wt's happeaning in lebanon, coz they lebanize gov. can't just control Hezbollah and tell them to stop wt they r doin, so the civilians r being bombed instead, and btw i dun think that Hezbollah is goin to stop wt they r doin, i have been watching a lot of news here in the mideast and Hezbollah seems to be determind to get rid of israel, i dunno how thats is gonna happean they, r just crazy. and the civilians now r living i terror coz of the whole thing.
and wt israel did i believe is too much, i mean bombing the airport, bombing civilan's homes .

i just wish both parties would just go to negotiations and try to work smth out, and put a bit of reasons in wt they r doin here, they should realize that they r killing inocent ppl.
probably i'm young here to speak about this but i just thought i should say smth here, and plus my country is next to the whole event, so.....

That's a very impartial way of describing the situation... you're very right. Both Hezbollah and Israel are wrong and the most affected by their actions is the lebanese and israeli civilians, too bad those leaders do not realise it's much better negotiating and discussing about the actual problems affecting both sides and not attacking each other making all things worse and worse...

Ambergris
18-07-2006, 02:16 AM
Israeli children writing peace messages on Israeli's army ammunition :thinking: :thinking:

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y270/Carodri/IMAGEN-17403-1.jpg

indanomati
18-07-2006, 11:38 AM
tks for agreeing, i really appreciate it.;)

btw the pics u posted , wt the hell, its very strange to do that. :stunned:
wt should this suppose to mean?!

bart
18-07-2006, 12:46 PM
Israeli children writing peace messages on Israeli's army ammunition :thinking: :thinking:

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y270/Carodri/IMAGEN-17403-1.jpg
The Nazi;s made the hitler youth do similar things...

indanomati
18-07-2006, 12:58 PM
wow, :shocked2:

Maldini
18-07-2006, 01:28 PM
Good, israel has a right to do something about them attacking israel. you people act like its evil for israel to do something about terrorist and other nations attacking it. like it doesnt have a right ot fight back.


Israel always attack in all times

Maldini
18-07-2006, 01:50 PM
antisemitism has been around for thousands of years. the jews are and have been the most hated people in earth's history. the only antisemitism is coming from europe and the muslims. you dont seem to realize this simple fact. and im the un-ethical one for not being anti semetic and/or not going with the flow of things and being agaisnt the jews.

Always Israel called who told the truth [ Antisemitism ]

Did you know something? Shem brother of Ham

It's mean the Arabs and Jews are cousin;)

Maldini
18-07-2006, 01:53 PM
Thats why you dont know much about the world. you dont have the stomach to learn about it.

I FUCKING TOLD YOU THE DEEP ROOT OF THE CONFLICT. HATE. the muslim want to kill the jews, the jews are the most hated group of people ever, and always have been.

its not about land, its about one side wanting to kill another because of hate.



It's Hallucination

It's about land of curse,just it nothing more

Maldini
18-07-2006, 01:57 PM
someone needs to help israel out for once. israel and europe have the same enemies.


In fact Israel the only enemy for the all world

Maldini
18-07-2006, 02:00 PM
Iran IS the enemy. though, america does not have to force that. Iran is truly a threat to america and europe, and if we let them get nukes, then we are ALL in BIG trouble.

Why USA the only country [ With Israel of course] afraid from Iran

Maybe cause they doing something wrong:sneaky:

Maldini
18-07-2006, 02:03 PM
again anti semetism. europe would side with any nation, other then a jewish one.

they complain more and hate more israel then their enemies....thats racism at its worst.

and what is truly sad is you stand up to defend one of the most evil and worst goverments around. the biggest sponser of terrorism. how can you support iran?


It's enough to saying antisemtism

disgusting

bart
18-07-2006, 03:56 PM
Always Israel called who told the truth [ Antisemitism ]

Did you know something? Shem brother of Ham

It's mean the Arabs and Jews are cousin;)

I have been taught that Nora had three sons one called Ham (Black people)
one called Shem (brown People) and one called Jephate (white people)

When Nora built the ark he was once Naked and his son Ham laughed at him, in his druken nakedness for this he was cursed... and some people say they people mainly of africa will always be cursed..



This is right if you have read the bible...
This is around Genises Chapter 10 after the flood, going on to when around 49 when Jacob had his 12 sons.

Did you know that its written in the Bible... and when Joseph one of Jacobs sons gave the following blessings...

Manaseh - You chirldrens children will be the greatest Nation in the world- Which nation is now refferd to as the greatest nation.. ? US.
Emphriam - You childrens tougne will be spoken in Many Nations (which lanauge is spoken in the most coutries around the world) England.. English

All of this can be found in the bible... mainly in the 1st Book of Genisis
Sorry about the awful speling by the way !

berrywoman
18-07-2006, 04:29 PM
Nora? or Noah??

bart
18-07-2006, 04:30 PM
Noah

berrywoman
18-07-2006, 04:35 PM
:lol: :P you make me laugh.... but I figured as much... ;)

GazeboflossUK
18-07-2006, 04:38 PM
I have been taught that Nora had three sons one called Ham (Black people)
one called Shem (brown People) and one called Jephate (white people)

When Nora built the ark he was once Naked and his son Ham laughed at him, in his druken nakedness for this he was cursed... and some people say they people mainly of africa will always be cursed..



This is right if you have read the bible...
This is around Genises Chapter 10 after the flood, going on to when around 49 when Jacob had his 12 sons.

Did you know that its written in the Bible... and when Joseph one of Jacobs sons gave the following blessings...

Manaseh - You chirldrens children will be the greatest Nation in the world- Which nation is now refferd to as the greatest nation.. ? US.
Emphriam - You childrens tougne will be spoken in Many Nations (which lanauge is spoken in the most coutries around the world) England.. English

All of this can be found in the bible... mainly in the 1st Book of Genisis
Sorry about the awful speling by the way !

Yes, but you can't really rely on the bible for sense. There's a talking snake in there ;) :laugh2:

Noah and his 'Ark' is a strange story.

GazeboflossUK
18-07-2006, 04:48 PM
CNN prepares Israeli false flag war provocation vs. Americans in Lebanon

Webster G. Tarpley | July 18 2006 (http://www.newsmax.com/scripts/printer_friendly.pl?s=pf&page=http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2006/7/16/160655.shtml?s=lh)

The escalating Israeli assault on Lebanon clearly represents a conscious bid to provoke a general war in the Middle East. The captured Israeli soldiers are only the pretext for the present massive military operations.

Israeli spokesmen are making constant allegations that Hezbollah missiles being fired at Israel have been manufactured or delivered by Iran. At the same time, the Israelis accuse Hezbollah of wanting to transfer the two captured Israeli soldiers to Syria or Iran. These statements are an attempt to build a case for an Israeli sneak attack on Syria and/or Iran. US spokesmen, including the Nietzschean fascist John Bolton, constantly repeat the litany that Syria and Iran are the supporters of Hezbollah.

How might the Israelis and their Bush-Cheney allies escalate to a Middle East regional war? A linear scenario is that, after further bombardment of Israel by rockets allegedly made in Iran and allegedly delivered with the connivance of Syria, the Israeli Defense Force (IDF) lashes out at Damascus and Teheran. Syrian and Iranian retaliatory measures would then be seized upon by the Bush-Cheney regime as a pretext for US entry into the war. Here the US would be openly dragged into war as the tail of the Israeli dog. But this is a deeply flawed scenario, sure to generate huge waves of resentment against the Israelis and their US partners as the body bags begin to come home.

False flag scenarios would be entirely more effective from the point of view of the war planners. CNN and MSNBC coverage this Saturday morning has been stressing the situation of the 25,000 Americans now stuck in Lebanon. These Americans are being invited to register with the US consulates for possible evacuation. The State Department and the US military have been remarkably slow to begin such an evacuation.

One possible provocation scenario to bring the US into the war is that a helicopter carrying US citizens being evacuated out of Lebanon is hit by a missile and destroyed, killing all on board. The missile might be fired by the Israelis or by their allies among the fascist Lebanese Phalangists. The Israelis would announce that the helicopter had been destroyed by Hezbollah, opening the way for a hysterical campaign by Fox News and the rest of the neocon mass brainwashing apparatus to secure an early US attack on Syria and Iran.

An alternative: a group of Arabic-speaking Israeli Mossad or Shin Beth special forces, or a group of Phalangist militia round up a few dozen Americans and machine-gun them to death. The controlled media then blame the massacre on Hezbolllah, thus stampeding the US population into war.

The "Christian" Phalangist (or "Kataeb Party") have long been a willing cat's paw for the US and Israelis in Lebanon. It was the Phalangists, controlled by the Gemayel family, who did most of the actual killing at the infamous Tel-al-Zaatar massacre in August 1976, in the midst of the Kissinger-provoked Lebanese civil war. The Phalangists in that case did the dirty work under the supervision of the Israelis. Although the controlled media have been silent about the Phalange, it is clear that they are still available for dirty operations.

In an ominous sign, CNN broadcasts have featured first-person interviews with Caroline Shamoun, supposedly an American stuck in Lebanon. This reference recalls Camille Chamoun, the CIA puppet president of Lebanon who called in US forces in 1958. The goal of the current campaign is manifestly to call US forces to intervene into a Lebanon-centered crisis once again.

All peace-loving governments and all Americans of good will should make it clear that they hold the Israeli Mossad, Shin Beth, and Israeli Defense Forces directly responsible for the safety and welfare of the Americans trapped in Lebanon by the present aggression. Any atrocities against these Americans cannot be attributed to Hezbollah, Syria, or Iran, none of whom has any conceivable interest in provoking the US into an attack. It is Israel and Cheney who have such an interest, as is likely to have been discussed during Olmert's visit to the US in May and Netanyahu's visit here in June.

It is imperative that the US and world populations be inoculated against the provocation scenarios now being propagandized by CNN, MSNBC, and the rest of the controlled media.

bart
18-07-2006, 04:50 PM
True, however something wirtten thousands years ago... in places has such a canny occurance in the present day...

GazeboflossUK
18-07-2006, 04:52 PM
James Woolsey calls for an attack on Syria

Crooks and Liars | July 18 2006 (http://www.crooksandliars.com/posts/2006/07/17/james-woolsey-calls-for-an-attack-on-syria/)

VIDEO HERE (http://www.crooksandliars.com/posts/2006/07/17/james-woolsey-calls-for-an-attack-on-syria/)

Former CIA man James Woolsey, appeared with John Gibson today and joined in with the neocon chorus and wants the US to attack Syria.

Woolsey says it’s really about Iran vs the US. No ceasefires or arrests. He wants air strikes on Syria immediately. Gibson asked him why the US shouldn’t just hit Iran.

Woolsey: Well, ahh, one has to take things to some degree by steps.

He’s said that we are in World War IV since ‘03 as part of a group calling itself "Americans for Victory Over Terrorism": The group was founded by former Education Secretary William Bennett, who took part in Wednesday’s event along with Paul Bremer, a U.S. ambassador during the Reagan administration and the former chairman of the National Commission on Terrorism.



What a war happy, propagandist idiot.

berrywoman
18-07-2006, 06:56 PM
True, however something wirtten thousands years ago... in places has such a canny occurance in the present day...

I would take the bible so literal.. its all based on interpretation.

;) ooops!

GazeboflossUK
18-07-2006, 07:13 PM
correct your spelling ^ ;)

green eyes88
18-07-2006, 08:17 PM
Well if Israely wouldn't confiscate and take away their land which was by no rights Israely, there wouldn't be any of the problems going on...

WELL I"M SO SICK AND TIRED OF HEARING COMMENTS LIKE THESE!!

every single country in the world has gotten it's land after they were conquered, usually during a war, and then there are agreement that are made that decide what belongs to who.
After the second world war Poland, for example, got land from Germany (this was pf cpurse decided in a conferense and agreements- just like the UN had decided about Israel and the UK released the balfour decleration). Now u dont see the germans going on busses in poland and blowing themselves up killing along with them little children, and parents that leave their childrens orphans or any other civilian!! Or kidnap a 19 year old soldier who's just doing his civil duty!!!!
May I remind u that when the jews didnt have a country they were murdered in masses, 6,000,000 million by the natzis! Dont u think that they deserve a land they could call their own- a land where they dont have to be persecuted by everyone, where they could live and know that this is where they belong!
Of course ppl like u will never understand because you have that.
So dont ever ever ever ever ever ever tell me that i dont belong here because this is MY HOME. Like your country is yours. And this is the ONLY PLACE WE HAVE. The arabs have tons of other countries. This is all we have.

and i'd like to see u when u know that every single boy that went to your grade is now being recruited to the north to fight them. And when your family members come live with u because they escape from the rockets that are shot at them endlessly. Or when you're afraid to go to school because u know u have to take the bus and u suspect every single person that enters it, and HAVE, in quite some many times got off the bus because u were scared.

dont say things when u dont understand them. Until u come live here, u will never know what we're really going through.
dont ever say we need to get out of here when we give them land back and they still attack. Do u think that living us country-less will make the wars end? It'll just make things worse, cause we'll be back in europe like before WW2- do u want history to repeat itself??

GazeboflossUK
19-07-2006, 07:12 PM
Fox News analyst compares Israelis to Nazis
Bevelacqua tells O'Reilly Jewish state ruthless in Lebanon

WorldNetDaily | July 18, 2006

Fox News military analyst Maj. Bob Bevelacqua, a former Green Beret, appearing tonight on "The O'Reilly Factor," compared Israeli actions in Lebanon and Gaza with Nazi actions in Russia during World War II.

Bevelacqua, a long-time Fox News contributor, said the Israelis were unwilling to compromise in their conflict with Hamas in Gaza and Hezbollah in southern Lebanon. He denied that the Israelis willingly evacuated from Gaza and Lebanon.

"Saying the Israelis pulled out of Lebanon is like saying the Nazis pulled out of Moscow," he said. "They invaded Lebanon. They invaded Gaza. They take homes and then they give them back. And they expect some type of great recognition."

Bevelacqua acknowledged he had business interests in Lebanon – a company that employed 30 people. His Fox News biography says he works with the WVC3 Group in Reston, Va., an elite security group that provides homeland security services, support and technologies to government and commercial clients.

"They (the Israelis) lack the word compromise," Bevelacqua said. "They refuse to sit down and negotiate."

His resume also says he has a 17-year history of worldwide military experience, including combat in the Gulf War, riot control in Los Angeles, a peacekeeping mission in Haiti, security assistance missions in West African countries and numerous anti-drug missions on the U.S. border with Mexico.


This is nuts.

Egghead
19-07-2006, 11:18 PM
Making evacuees pay sparks political fight (http://news.cincypost.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060719/NEWS01/607190337)

WASHINGTON - As U.S. citizens scrambled to escape the fighting in Lebanon and the Pentagon announced a massive evacuation effort, another kind of war - this one bitterly political - broke out in Washington over whether the evacuees should be billed for the costs of their own rescue.

They were being asked to sign a promissory note, pledging to repay the U.S. government within 90 days for the costs of their evacuation. The paperwork in Beirut sent tempers through the roof in Washington, not to mention among some under fire in Lebanon who have been asked to sign the notes.

"We've spent hundreds of billions of dollars in Iraq, we've paid Halliburton money that they haven't even earned, and yet we charge individual Americans who are caught in the crossfire in Lebanon for their transportation costs to get out," said an outraged House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif.

Calling on President Bush to reassure the public that "this is not just another manifestation of the Katrina mentality," Pelosi added: "A nation that can provide $300 billion for a war in Iraq can provide the money to get its people out of Lebanon."

...

Throughout the day, congressional leaders and the administration traded accusations over who was to blame, and each urged the other to rush through a waiver to the law requiring repayment. By Tuesday evening, according to congressional aides, the State Department indicated that evacuees would not be charged.

Can't believe this was even a debate

GazeboflossUK
19-07-2006, 11:23 PM
Damn right they shouldn't pay!

It's disgusting when you think about all the wasted money.
Money blown on strategic globalist wars which were sold to the public on documented lies!

Everything little thing they do is criminal.

GazeboflossUK
19-07-2006, 11:59 PM
Lebanon 'has been torn to shreds'

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41908000/jpg/_41908324_tears_afp203b.jpg

The Lebanese prime minister has called for an immediate ceasefire between Israel and Hezbollah militants, saying his country "has been torn to shreds".
Fouad Siniora said more than 300 people had been killed and 500,000 others displaced in a week of Israeli attacks.

More than 60 civilians died in fresh air strikes as two Israeli soldiers and a Hezbollah militant died in clashes.

FOREIGNERS IN LEBANON
* Canada: 40,000
* Philippines: 30,000
* Australia: 25,000
* US: 25,000
* UK: 22,000 (inc. 10,000 with dual nationality)
* France: 20,000
Figures correct at start of conflict

Barrages of Hezbollah rockets have been fired into northern Israel, where two children were killed in Nazareth.

Twenty-nine Israelis have died - including 15 civilians killed by rocket attacks - since the Israeli offensive against Hezbollah militants began eight days ago.

In further action on Wednesday night, Israel said a wave of planes had bombed a bunker in the south of the capital, Beirut, where it believed Hezbollah leaders had taken refuge.

Israel launched attacks on Lebanon after Hezbollah captured two Israeli soldiers in a cross-border raid.

Many thousands continue to flee Lebanon, and several countries have sent ships and helicopters to move their nationals.

But thousands of others remain trapped, with major roads cut by Israeli bombing, and no supplies reaching many areas.


In other developments:

* Relief agencies say there is a growing need for water, sanitation and medical facilities for those displaced within Lebanon

* French President Jacques Chirac called for humanitarian corridors in Lebanon to protect civilians from Israeli air raids as they flee the fighting

* UN Secretary General Kofi Annan and US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice are to discuss the crisis on Thursday.


'Callous retribution'

In an emotional televised appeal, the Lebanese prime minister urged the international community to intervene.

"I call upon you all to respond immediately... and provide urgent international humanitarian assistance to our war-stricken country," Mr Siniora said.

"Can the international community stand by while such callous retribution by the state of Israel is inflicted on us?"

He vowed to make Israel pay compensation to Lebanon for the "barbaric destruction".

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41905000/gif/_41905662_leb_is_gaz_launch203.gif

Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert said the campaign against the militants would continue "as long as necessary" to free its captured soldiers and ensure Hezbollah is not a threat.

Israeli Deputy Prime Minister Shimon Peres told the BBC that Israel wanted peace, but could not sit back while Hezbollah fired rockets at Israel.

Wednesday saw further Israeli strikes in the east, south and Beirut, where a Christian district came under fire for the first time.

At least 12 people were killed in a southern village near the city of Tyre and civilian deaths were also reported in other parts of the south and near Baalbek in the east.

The strikes came as Israeli ground troops continued what they call "restricted pinpoint attacks" into southern Lebanon.

Heavy exchanges of fire erupted after Israeli tanks and infantry crossed the border in search of Hezbollah weapons and facilities.

For their part, Hezbollah fired dozens of rockets at Israeli cities including Haifa and Tiberias

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/5196800.stm


This is all going up another level, it's a very grave situation.

Maldini
22-07-2006, 02:08 PM
WELL I"M SO SICK AND TIRED OF HEARING COMMENTS LIKE THESE!!

every single country in the world has gotten it's land after they were conquered, usually during a war, and then there are agreement that are made that decide what belongs to who.
After the second world war Poland, for example, got land from Germany (this was pf cpurse decided in a conferense and agreements- just like the UN had decided about Israel and the UK released the balfour decleration). Now u dont see the germans going on busses in poland and blowing themselves up killing along with them little children, and parents that leave their childrens orphans or any other civilian!! Or kidnap a 19 year old soldier who's just doing his civil duty!!!!
May I remind u that when the jews didnt have a country they were murdered in masses, 6,000,000 million by the natzis! Dont u think that they deserve a land they could call their own- a land where they dont have to be persecuted by everyone, where they could live and know that this is where they belong!
Of course ppl like u will never understand because you have that.
So dont ever ever ever ever ever ever tell me that i dont belong here because this is MY HOME. Like your country is yours. And this is the ONLY PLACE WE HAVE. The arabs have tons of other countries. This is all we have.

and i'd like to see u when u know that every single boy that went to your grade is now being recruited to the north to fight them. And when your family members come live with u because they escape from the rockets that are shot at them endlessly. Or when you're afraid to go to school because u know u have to take the bus and u suspect every single person that enters it, and HAVE, in quite some many times got off the bus because u were scared.

dont say things when u dont understand them. Until u come live here, u will never know what we're really going through.
dont ever say we need to get out of here when we give them land back and they still attack. Do u think that living us country-less will make the wars end? It'll just make things worse, cause we'll be back in europe like before WW2- do u want history to repeat itself??

It's just a lies

Maldini
22-07-2006, 02:17 PM
WELL I"M SO SICK AND TIRED OF HEARING COMMENTS LIKE THESE!!

every single country in the world has gotten it's land after they were conquered, usually during a war, and then there are agreement that are made that decide what belongs to who.
After the second world war Poland, for example, got land from Germany (this was pf cpurse decided in a conferense and agreements- just like the UN had decided about Israel and the UK released the balfour decleration). Now u dont see the germans going on busses in poland and blowing themselves up killing along with them little children, and parents that leave their childrens orphans or any other civilian!! Or kidnap a 19 year old soldier who's just doing his civil duty!!!!
May I remind u that when the jews didnt have a country they were murdered in masses, 6,000,000 million by the natzis! Dont u think that they deserve a land they could call their own- a land where they dont have to be persecuted by everyone, where they could live and know that this is where they belong!
Of course ppl like u will never understand because you have that.
So dont ever ever ever ever ever ever tell me that i dont belong here because this is MY HOME. Like your country is yours. And this is the ONLY PLACE WE HAVE. The arabs have tons of other countries. This is all we have.

and i'd like to see u when u know that every single boy that went to your grade is now being recruited to the north to fight them. And when your family members come live with u because they escape from the rockets that are shot at them endlessly. Or when you're afraid to go to school because u know u have to take the bus and u suspect every single person that enters it, and HAVE, in quite some many times got off the bus because u were scared.

dont say things when u dont understand them. Until u come live here, u will never know what we're really going through.
dont ever say we need to get out of here when we give them land back and they still attack. Do u think that living us country-less will make the wars end? It'll just make things worse, cause we'll be back in europe like before WW2- do u want history to repeat itself??


If you feel sick when you hearing comments like this,so what can I feel when I read yout comment

I think when a country conquered other land in war I think [ im my opinion] they must give it back to them

But what you say about people didn't even have a land and conquered the others land

You said this 19 years old soldier doing his civil duty
I don't understand how you say SOLDIRE and CIVIL DUTY together
I think he was doing his Military Duty


When I ask you to a drink,I ask you to drink in my home no in another on home,so Britain haven't any right to announce a decleration about Palestine

If jews murdered in masses it's not our fault and there is no reason to invasion our land

green eyes88
22-07-2006, 03:25 PM
It's just a lies

LIES??? YOU THINK THAT I WOULD LIE ABOUT A BUS EXPOLIDING ONE KILOMETER FROM MY HOUSE AND KILLING 14 YEAR OLD KIDS ON THE WAY TO SCHOOL!!!
DON'T YOU EVEN DARE GO THERE BECAUSE IF THERE'S SOMETHING THAT MAKES ME HEAT UP IS WHEN PEOPLE LIKE U, WHO DON'T LIVE HERE AND DONT KNOW WHAT IT'S LIKE START JUSTIFING WHAT THE PALESTINIANS DO BECAUSE THEY CLAIM THE "DESERVE" THIS LAND, OR NOT ONLY JUSTIFY WHAT'S GOING ON HERE BUT DENY IT!!! I REALLY HAVE NOTHING LEFT TO SAY TO YOU, OR PPL LIKE YOU. YOU'RE SO SMALL TO ME, NOT EVEN WORTH MY NERVES OR MY TIME. SERIOUSLY, YOU CAN JUST GO FUCK YOURSELF OR SOMETHING, DONT INVOLVE YOURSELF IN THINGS THAT DONT CONCERN U

OH, AND YES!! IT IS A CIVIL DUTY, SINCE WE'RE BEING FUCKING ATTACKED ALL THE TIME, AND YEAH, IF I WANNA STAY ALIVE WE NEED TO GO TO THE ARMY AND FIGHT FOR OUR POSSTION. IM SORRY U FEEL SAFE WHERE U ARE AND U DONT HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT THINGS LIKE THAT
!!!!!!

Ergf
22-07-2006, 04:48 PM
It's just a lies


yeah .. i agree with Greeneyes88 here ... you should folow the news a bit more Maldini. There is almost no day passing whitout a palestine attack on Israel and vice versa. It most surely are not lies what you've read here. I don't know who's side to be one because i don't know enough about the situation but saying that Greeneyes88 just told lied is kinda stupid. Read the papers, watch the news .. do something to get to know anything about this.

And what's wrong with doing military duty ? If you have to go into the army because your government tells you to, are you going to refuse ? i don't think you can refuse man! and even if you don't have to go i'd got to defend the country where i live in since the day i was born ... to defend what you've got ...

About the declaration of Israel and palestina ... there's no way you can go back in time and make that undone ... quit living in the past, this is the situation now and people are trying to make the best out of it. It would be insane to get all the israeli back out of israel and move them back to their previous countries.
Do you think Egypt didn't take land from other countries ? you think Egypt has always been between the same borders ? Hell no! Israel is just the most recent piece of land took to live in by other people than the native people.

GazeboflossUK
22-07-2006, 06:15 PM
Hezbollah, Hamas and Israel: Everything You Need To Know

ALEXANDER COCKBURN | July 21 2006

As the tv networks give unlimited airtime to Israel’s apologists, the message rolls out that no nation, least of all Israel, can permit bombardment or armed incursion across its borders without retaliation.

The guiding rule in this tsunami of drivel is that the viewers should be denied the slightest access to any historical context, or indeed to anything that happened prior to June 28, which was when the capture of an Israeli soldier and the killing of two others by Hamas hit the headlines, followed soon thereafter by an attack by a unit of Hezbollah’s fighters.

Memory is supposed to stop in its tracks at June 28, 2006.

Let’s go on a brief excursion into pre-history. I’m talking about June 20, 2006, when Israeli aircraft fired at least one missile at a car in an attempted extrajudicial assassination attempt on a road between Jabalya and Gaza City. The missile missed the car. Instead it killed three Palestinian children and wounded 15.

Back we go again to June 13, 2006. Israeli aircraft fired missiles at a van in another attempted extrajudicial assassination. The successive barrages killed nine innocent Palestinians.

Now we’re really in the dark ages, reaching far, far back to June 9, 2006, when Israel shelled a beach in Beit Lahiya killing 8 civilians and injuring 32.

That’s just a brief trip down Memory Lane, and we trip over the bodies of twenty dead and forty-seven wounded, all of them Palestinians, most of them women and children.

Israel regrets… But no! Israel doesn’t regret in the least. Most of the time it doesn’t even bother to pretend to regret. It says, “We reserve the right to slaughter Palestinians whenever we want. We reserve the right to assassinate their leaders, crush their homes, steal their water, tear out their olive groves, and when they try to resist we call them terrorists intent on wrecking the ‘peace process’”.

Now Israel says it wants to wipe out Hezbollah. It wishes no harm to the people of Lebanon, just so long as they’re not supporters of Hezbollah, or standing anywhere in the neighborhood of a person or a house or a car or a truck or a road or a bus or a field, or a power station or a port that might, in the mind of an Israeli commander or pilot, have something to do with Hezbollah. In any of those eventualities all bets are off. You or your wife or your mother or your baby get fried.

Israel regrets… But no! As noted above, it doesn’t regret in the least. Neither does George Bush, nor Condoleezza Rice nor John Bolton who is the moral savage who brings shame on his country each day that he sits as America’s ambassador (unconfirmed) at the UN and who has just told the world that a dead Israel civilian is worth a whole more in terms of moral outrage than a Lebanese one.

None of them regrets. They say Hezbollah is a cancer in the body of Lebanon. Sometimes, to kill the cancer, you end up killing the body. Or bodies. Bodies of babies. Lots of them. Go to the website fromisraeltolebanon.info and take a look. Then sign the petition on the site calling on the governments of the world to stop this barbarity.

You can say that Israel brought Hezbollah into the world. You can prove it too, though this too involves another frightening excursion into history.

This time we have to go far, almost unimaginably far, back into history. Back to 1982, before the dinosaurs, before CNN, before Fox TV, before O’Reilly and Limbaugh. But not before the neo-cons who at that time had already crawled from the primal slime and were doing exactly what they are doing now: advising an American president to give Israel the green light to “solve its security problems” by destroying Lebanon.

In 1982 Israel had a problem. Yasir Arafat, headquartered in Beirut, was making ready to announce that the PLO was prepared to sit down with Israel and embark on peaceful, good faith negotiations towards a two-state solution.

Israel didn’t want a two-state solution, which meant -- if UN resolutions were to be taken seriously -- a Palestinian state right next door, with water, and contiguous territory. So Israel decided chase the PLO right out of Lebanon. It announced that the Palestinian fighters had broken the year-long cease-fire by lobbing some shells into northern Israel.

Palestinians had done nothing of the sort. I remember this very well, because Brian Urquhart, at that time assistant secretary general of the United Nations, in charge of UN observers on Israel’s northern border, invited me to his office on the 38th floor of the UN hq in mid-Manhattan and showed me all the current reports from the zone. For over a year there’d been no shelling from north of the border. Israel was lying.

With or without a pretext Israel wanted to invade Lebanon. So it did, and rolled up to Beirut. It shelled Lebanese towns and villages and bombed them from the air. Sharon’s forces killed maybe 20,000 people, and let Lebanese Christians slaughter hundreds of Palestinian refugees in the camps of Sabra and Chatilla.

The killing got so bad that even Ronald Reagan awoke from his slumbers and called Tel Aviv to tell Israel to stop. Sharon gave the White House the finger by bombing Beirut at the precise times -- 2.42 and 3.38 -- of two UN resolutions calling for a peaceful settlement on the matter of Palestine.

When the dust settled over the rubble, Israel bunkered down several miles inside Lebanese sovereign territory, which it illegally occupied, in defiance of all UN resolutions, for years, supervising a brutal local militia and running its own version of Abu Graibh, the torture center at the prison of Al-Khiam.

Occupy a country, torture its citizens and in the end you face resistance. In Israel’s case it was Hezbollah, and in the end Hezbollah ran Israel out of Lebanon, which is why a lot of Lebanese regard Hezbollah not as terrorists but as courageous liberators.

The years roll by and Israel does its successful best to destroy all possibility of a viable two-state solution. It builds illegal settlements. It chops up Palestine with Jews-only roads. It collars all the water. It cordons off Jerusalem. It steals even more land by bisecting Palestinian territory with its “fence”. Anyone trying to organize resistance gets jailed, tortured, or blown up.

Sick of their terrible trials, Palestinians elect Hamas, whose leaders make it perfectly clear that they are ready to deal on the basis of the old two-state solution, which of course is the one thing Israel cannot endure. Israel doesn’t want any “peaceful solution” that gives the Palestinians anything more than a few trashed out acres surrounded with barbed wire and tanks, between the Israeli settlements whose goons can murder them pretty much at will.

So here we are, 24 years after Sharon did his best to destroy Lebanon in 1982, and his heirs are doing it all over again. Since they can’t endure the idea of any just settlement for Palestinians, it’s the only thing they know how to do. Call Lebanon a terror-haven and bomb it back to the stone age. Call Gaza a terror-haven and bomb its power plant, first stop on the journey back to the stone age. Bomb Damascus. Bomb Teheran.

Of course they won’t destroy Hezbollah. Every time they kill another Lebanese family, they multiply hatred of Israel and support for Hezbollah. They’ve even unified the parliament in Baghdad, which just voted unanimously -- Sunnis and Shi’ites and Kurds alike -- to deplore Israel’s conduct and to call for a ceasefire.

I hope you’ve enjoyed these little excursions into history, even though history is dangerous, which is why the US press gives it a wide birth. But even without the benefit of historical instruction, a majority of Americans in CNN’s instant poll –- about 55 per cent out of 800,000 as of midday, July 19 -- don’t like what Israel is up to.

Dislike is one thing, but at least in the short term it doesn’t help much. Israel’s 1982 attack on Lebanon grew unpopular in the US, after the first few days. But forcing the US to pressure Israel to settle the basic problem takes political courage, and virtually no US politician is prepared to buck the Israel lobby, however many families in Lebanon and Gaza may be sacrificed on the altar of such cowardice.