Israel / Lebanon / Iran / Syria - Middle East conflict!

[Matan_18]

Hello everyone,
I am an 18 years old guy from Israel.
I want to tell all those people who think that Israel started that war now, few things.
First of all, I want to people to listen to ALL the news, and not only about Israeli soldiers attack Lebanon. What about the 200 missles that "Hizballa" fires on Israeli cities everyday in the last 2 weeks!! Have you heard about that?? Everyday Israeli civilians get injured and die from those attacks.
Israel is only doing those opperations to destroy Hizballa which is a terror organization!!
You people should think what would your coutries would do in the same situation. If you were being attacked, how would your countries respond??
I can see that only the U.S.A agrees with Israel in that matter, and you know why?Because of the terror attack in 2001. You people, most of you, just don't know and feel what we feel!! We can't live quietly in our own home!!
THINK ABOUT IT PLEASE..before you respond
thank you..

[Ergf]

Hello everyone,
I am an 18 years old guy from Israel.
I want to tell all those people who think that Israel started that war now, few things.
First of all, I want to people to listen to ALL the news, and not only about Israeli soldiers attack Lebanon. What about the 200 missles that "Hizballa" fires on Israeli cities everyday in the last 2 weeks!! Have you heard about that?? Everyday Israeli civilians get injured and die from those attacks.
Israel is only doing those opperations to destroy Hizballa which is a terror organization!!
You people should think what would your coutries would do in the same situation. If you were being attacked, how would your countries respond??
I can see that only the U.S.A agrees with Israel in that matter, and you know why?Because of the terror attack in 2001. You people, most of you, just don't know and feel what we feel!! We can't live quietly in our own home!!
THINK ABOUT IT PLEASE..before you respond
thank you..


i just want to say that i don't really get Israels view on all this. I mean, when one Israeli gets wounded they kill 5 palestines to revenge the wounded guy. When one gets killed they take a whole region of Gaza into their hands ... that's not the way to solve this problem i think .. you make the palestines hate you even more

[Matan_18]

i just want to say that i don't really get Israels view on all this. I mean, when one Israeli gets wounded they kill 5 palestines to revenge the wounded guy. When one gets killed they take a whole region of Gaza into their hands ... that's not the way to solve this problem i think .. you make the palestines hate you even more


that's the problem.. the TV and the media around the world shows us that way!! We are not doing that at all.
Israel is a country that has the right to defend itself!! And when the palestinians kills our civillians it's not by mistake!!They aim for little kids and women and they give candies in the streets when they kill us!!
Israel on the other hand is not like that at all!! If an unharmed person is hit by mistake by the Israeli defence force, we are very sorry about it. We only want to kill the terrorists that kill us!! and they are not humans!!they are always around civillians so Israel won't try to hit them. I guess that is not showed all around the world!! you know why? because the palestinian terrorists threaten them!!

[ugadawg5]

get used to the anti-semitism on this board Matan_18 - it is rampant.

[amsterdam528]

I don't think the crisis in Israfghyianonanaq will ever be solved. I mean seriously, these Israelis, as much as they are an ally of the US, are doing nothing good. Hezbolla took their guys, not innocent Lebanese civilians, so why should the civilians be punished?

If Israel didn't attack Gaza in June this whole thing would never have happened. :thinking: CNNs got nonstop coverage going too. All day at work, and not ONE domestic story.

As far as US intervention goes, I think we should sit this one out. Our efforts to retrieve our people are excellent; why tarnish them with needless bloodshed and more proof to terrorists of why to hate us?

And to Dick Cheney, this is definitely NOT proof that we need to stay the course and keep the GOP in power. In fact, it's proof you guys need the boot in November.

[EL MASRY]

hello everyone..am not good in saying wht i feeling..but really i feel so sad 4 wht happens 2 lebanees ppl lately..when am talking here i don't speaking like arab or Muslim but a humanbeing..feel so bad 4 the killing,distroying, homelosing, tht lebanees ppl sffred from..most of these pictres r for children 've no guilt with wht's happens i can't understand why thy 've benn killed if u did plz tell me..plz 4ward this msg 2 all ur friends 2 kno the realityhello everyone..am not good in saying wht i feeling..but really i feel so sad 4 wht happens 2 lebanees ppl lately..when am talking here i don't speaking like arab or Muslim but a humanbeing..feel so bad 4 the killing,distroying, homelosing, tht lebanees ppl sffred from..most of these pictres r for children 've no guilt with wht's happens i can't understand why thy 've benn killed if u did plz tell me..:cry::cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

[EL MASRY]

and more....................

[EL MASRY]

more....................

[psychosaiqa]

Islam is a violent religion which has nothing but hatred for Jews. They do not want peace. They want to wipe every last Jew off of the Earth. Do not blame the Israelis for responding to another unwarrented attack by the Palestinians.

do you even know what the hell you're talking about? go study the religion of islam and get back to me on that.

[EL MASRY]

sorry about my massage replayed twice and last line on it is fifth
this was my last sentence ((( me..plz 4ward this msg 2 all ur friends 2 kno the reality)))

[EL MASRY]

do you even know what the hell you're talking about? go study the religion of islam and get back to me on that.
i am not studing it coz i am moslim and i want to know from where did you get that?

[EL MASRY]

fro your nightmares or what

[EL MASRY]

:smug: :shocked2: :laugh3:

[GazeboflossUK]

that's the problem.. the TV and the media around the world shows us that way!! We are not doing that at all.
Israel is a country that has the right to defend itself!! And when the palestinians kills our civillians it's not by mistake!!They aim for little kids and women and they give candies in the streets when they kill us!!
Israel on the other hand is not like that at all!! If an unharmed person is hit by mistake by the Israeli defence force, we are very sorry about it. We only want to kill the terrorists that kill us!! and they are not humans!!they are always around civillians so Israel won't try to hit them. I guess that is not showed all around the world!! you know why? because the palestinian terrorists threaten them!!

All the major U.S news companies are ran by Jews.....so in the USA the Isrealis generally can do no wrong....and lots of the brain-dead TV audience there have been gradually told of the anti-semitism when people speak out....which is a LOAD OF CRAP.

YOU GUYS CAN'T HIDE BEHIND "ANTI-SEMITISM" FOREVER!!

Just because Isreal is RIGHTFULLY criticised for what is has done and is doing DOES NOT make it anti-semitic. GET IT? I highly doubt it you will.

Anybody can look back through the news and work out that this 'war' is cleverly thought out plan by Isreal and the US. ISREAL ACTUALLY ATTACKED FIRST!! and this plan was made more than a year ago (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2006/07/21/MIDEAST.TMP&type=printable) That's something which is ALWAYS left out of these news reports.

I think even the corporate mainstream news today here in the UK was even realising the terrible way in which this 'war' has waged. Which supirsed me a little....well they will probably change their tune tomorrow.

And it's not about being against the Isreali people who do feel bad for what is going on.....it's about the CRIMINALS in government who are leading the globalists agenda to blame Iran and any other country they can get away with blaming - so that another 'war' can be started and another middle-eastern nation can be turned to rubble. And all in the name of money and power: their documented policies, not mine.

So stop winging about anti-semitism (those who are) and show some real intellect for a change.

[amsterdam528]

So this thought just occurred to me... when was the last time a nation actually declared war on another?

All these conflicts seem to be just random fighting among sects or with "enemies without faces." Global war on "terrr"

[GazeboflossUK]

Yep, a point to whcih many people have asked me too.

[ugadawg5]

I don't think the crisis in Israfghyianonanaq will ever be solved. I mean seriously, these Israelis, as much as they are an ally of the US, are doing nothing good. Hezbolla took their guys, not innocent Lebanese civilians, so why should the civilians be punished?

If Israel didn't attack Gaza in June this whole thing would never have happened. :thinking: CNNs got nonstop coverage going too. All day at work, and not ONE domestic story.

As far as US intervention goes, I think we should sit this one out. Our efforts to retrieve our people are excellent; why tarnish them with needless bloodshed and more proof to terrorists of why to hate us?

And to Dick Cheney, this is definitely NOT proof that we need to stay the course and keep the GOP in power. In fact, it's proof you guys need the boot in November.


hey moron, did you forget about the civilians in Haifa and everywhere else in Northern Israel that have rockets raining down on them day and night? why should they be punished?

and you blame this entire thing on Israel for attacking the Gaza Strip? which country HANDED the Gaza Strip to the Palestinians as a gesture of good will, only to have the Palestinians launch rockets into Israel immediately following the handover.

it isn't Israel's fault that Hezbollah hides behind Lebanese civilians. Hezbollah knows that they are putting the Lebanese in danger by doing this. they have no sympathy for the Lebanese and want every Jew dead.

another idiot yankee. go bills, douchebag.

[GazeboflossUK]

You are an idiot yankee.

Oh dear, I see we have trouble.

[amsterdam528]

You're not worth arguing with. :rolleyes:

[ugadawg5]

You're not worth arguing with. :rolleyes:

your logic from your last post is asinine.

[amsterdam528]

Ahem --> :rolleyes:

(reported)

[huntjd]

All the major U.S news companies are ran by Jews.....so in the USA the Isrealis generally can do no wrong....and lots of the brain-dead TV audience there have been gradually told of the anti-semitism when people speak out....which is a LOAD OF CRAP.

YOU GUYS CAN'T HIDE BEHIND "ANTI-SEMITISM" FOREVER!!

Just because Isreal is RIGHTFULLY criticised for what is has done and is doing DOES NOT make it anti-semitic. GET IT? I highly doubt it you will.

Anybody can look back through the news and work out that this 'war' is cleverly thought out plan by Isreal and the US. ISREAL ACTUALLY ATTACKED FIRST!! and this plan was made more than a year ago (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2006/07/21/MIDEAST.TMP&type=printable) That's something which is ALWAYS left out of these news reports.

I think even the corporate mainstream news today here in the UK was even realising the terrible way in which this 'war' has waged. Which supirsed me a little....well they will probably change their tune tomorrow.

And it's not about being against the Isreali people who do feel bad for what is going on.....it's about the CRIMINALS in government who are leading the globalists agenda to blame Iran and any other country they can get away with blaming - so that another 'war' can be started and another middle-eastern nation can be turned to rubble. And all in the name of money and power: their documented policies, not mine.

So stop winging about anti-semitism (those who are) and show some real intellect for a change.

i don't think the antisemitism excuse is used, and if it is it is a product of the holocaust. and why does your site not even name who the officer was who said it was planned? i highly doubt its authenticity.

[MrLick]

You're not worth arguing with. :rolleyes:

You're right, you should start off with someone on your level, like a brick wall or maybe a cat? you can work your way up to intelligent humans later on in life.:o

you gotta love the extreme anti-semetism in here, israel is attacked and they defend themselves and they are the ones who are doing the wrong and bad things.....:shocked2:

pretty sad.

[MrLick]

I don't think the crisis in Israfghyianonanaq will ever be solved. I mean seriously, these Israelis, as much as they are an ally of the US, are doing nothing good. Hezbolla took their guys, not innocent Lebanese civilians, so why should the civilians be punished?

If Israel didn't attack Gaza in June this whole thing would never have happened. :thinking: CNNs got nonstop coverage going too. All day at work, and not ONE domestic story.

As far as US intervention goes, I think we should sit this one out. Our efforts to retrieve our people are excellent; why tarnish them with needless bloodshed and more proof to terrorists of why to hate us?

And to Dick Cheney, this is definitely NOT proof that we need to stay the course and keep the GOP in power. In fact, it's proof you guys need the boot in November.

Innocent Lebanese shouldnt have to pay, but thats the price of war. israel is a nation that was attacked and provoked to they had to strike back to protect THEIR innocent civilians. israel has a choice, their people or Lebanon's...guess what they are always going to chose their people. anyways israel is showing alot of restraint in this war, they are going after key targets, not just shooting hundreds of rockets at random into lebanon. the real problem here are the terrorist who started this attack. sadly that will get lost in europes anti-Semitism.

remember kids, even when attacked first and provoked by terrorist, its always the evil jews fault and they are always to blame......you people act like israel went out looking to kill some innocent people for fun, they were attacked and they did what ANY nation would and SHOULD do, defend themselves. but since they are jewish its not ok for that.:angry:

[MrLick]

i don't think the antisemitism excuse is used, and if it is it is a product of the holocaust. and why does your site not even name who the officer was who said it was planned? i highly doubt its authenticity.

No its not, anti-Semitism has been huge in europe for thousands of years...the jews have been hated, and killed and blamed for all of europes problems throughout European history. it is NOTHING new.

[MrLick]

more....................

truly sad, but what about the jews that have been killed? the ones who were attacked first out of pure hatred? its always horrible when an innocent person dies, but israel has no other option but to defend itself.

[coldplaying]

You're not worth arguing with. :rolleyes:

you're right...

[Ergf]

You're right, you should start off with someone on your level, like a brick wall or maybe a cat? you can work your way up to intelligent humans later on in life.:o

you gotta love the extreme anti-semetism in here, israel is attacked and they defend themselves and they are the ones who are doing the wrong and bad things.....:shocked2:

pretty sad.


lets not say that israel is the one doing the wrong and bad things .. the palestines are doing wrong things too. I think both sides are almost just as wrong. Perhaps it looks as if Israel is the agressor because they're military stronger but don't say that what the palestines do is totally OK.

[chuck kottke]

Hello!
Well, it's all tragic, if you ask me! Kids learning at an early age the cult of the Martyrs, and Israel's creation as a Jewish state by taking land from Palestinians.. All so sad to create these rifts between we people.. There too, time has passed, and to let bygones be bygones, and truly help one-another!
It is typical for those in power anywhere to use more force than is necessary to resolve the matter, which it looks like, and then to the other side, which is waiting for this so they can launch more attacks (indescriminantly), as the extremist leaders label the other as all the same and all as guilty of "crimes against Islam." Yet, Israel (much like the US) is not willing to just solve the matter without escalation of the conflict - maybe to pre-empt what they fear would be an even bigger battle in the future? And, folks on both sides, who would otherwise be nearer to peace are again drawn into a polarizing process...Yet, In the end, we've all got to get along! I can't understand how destroying power plants, water treatment plants, and the like wins anyone over!! This just builds anger and resentment, over a matter that doesn't warrant this level of action. Did we win anyone over by bombing the water, electric, and treatment plants in Iraq either? I think not! One can only succeed against those who are unjust in their actions by being just. Otherwise, the unjust have every excuse in the book to make light of the other's mistakes, and use these mistakes, however lesser by comparison, as a pretext for further attacks, and a battle cry for the next generation.
Saddest of all is the harm done to the innocent - by certain Mullahs, by Militants, by the Israeli millitary - what hell it must be to be in those innocent shoes! OUCH! OUCH!
What works in the end? How do we get this to cool off and let cooler heads prevail?
I'm wondering, should the area just be called the Holy Lands, and leave it up to a system which protects religious liberty, ensuring justice, and allowing any faith to be practiced, so long as it does not trample the rights of others?
It's pretty sad to see how we forget how precious life is in these circumstances...
If those of Islam's faith hold a brotherhood that feels for one-another , as I understand it does, then it makes sense to help those in the the Islamic world better themselves, so that there is less grinding poverty and sadness that leads to the martyrs' cult being so desireable. It will take generations to undo much of the hatred already built up on both sides of this, but I have hope we shall one day overcome the walls that separate us, and learn to respect one-another's place in the world, and to find the deeper meanings in our religions than to turn to battles and wars.
But, it's a big complex situation, so I might not have all the puzzle pieces either. Hope someone does!!
Happy Trails,
-Chuck

[chuck kottke]

One good way to prevent a lot of bloodshed is to make ties! One couple I know did just that, and have travelled extensively throughout the Middle East, singing their way along, almost unbelievably, through some pretty war-torn areas!
They have a lot to say about how the every-day people of the Middle-East are not nuts or dangerous in the least - in fact, they're very kind and accomodating, on the whole! If anyone's interested, check out Musical Missions of Peace at http://www.musicalmissions.com. Cameron and Kristina will be glad you're interested!!

Happy Trails,
-Chuck

[chuck kottke]

An eye for an eye leaves the world blind. :bomb::dead: Defusing tensions is pretty messy stuff, but things have a tendancy to blow up otherwise, and are not easily put back together.
Did anyone see the movie Munich recently? I had a chance to see it over a vacation, and it tells an interesting story about this whole mess!
-Chuck

[huntjd]

An eye for an eye leaves the world blind. :bomb::dead: Defusing tensions is pretty messy stuff, but things have a tendancy to blow up otherwise, and are not easily put back together.
Did anyone see the movie Munich recently? I had a chance to see it over a vacation, and it tells an interesting story about this whole mess!
-Chuck

yes. and its a movie, so its not true. the best comment on the situation in the middle east is shown in syriana- how the actions of governments affect everyone.

[huntjd]

No its not, anti-Semitism has been huge in europe for thousands of years...the jews have been hated, and killed and blamed for all of europes problems throughout European history. it is NOTHING new.

dude i know that. i mean the anti semitism on a world scale. the holocaust showed the world anti-semitism at it most harsh and the jewish people recieved sympathy, but people now compare jewish sympathy resulting as a product anti-semitic acts, which is pathetic. if its not as bad as the holocaust and jewish people claim something is anti-semitic it is ignored. i think unfortunately the holocaust has become a yard stick for sympathy- if its not as bad, none is recieved.

[Matan_18]

I am from Israel, and I want you people to read this for a second:
We don't want that war, here in Israel we only want to live in peace!! It's not our fault that the Hizballa, a terror organization, started attacking us!! You people of the world, just can't realize that!! Most of you don't know what TERROR is!!! Please just think for a minute: What would your country do if more than a hundred missles were being fired on your cities every day!?!?!? You just don't know it!!! So please stop saying that Israel is only looking for war and to kill civillians!!! Israel is a country that has the right to defend itself!! We don't kill the Lebanese people on purpose, the hizballa is shooting their missles from their cities and Israel has to kill those terrorists, not the civiliians...
Take by example the USA that entered Afganistan and Iraq because of the 11 of September..
So please try to understand our side better before you respond. We only want peace!!to live without missles everyday every hour.. you just can't realize that!!!

[amsterdam528]

Innocent Lebanese shouldnt have to pay, but thats the price of war. israel is a nation that was attacked and provoked to they had to strike back to protect THEIR innocent civilians. israel has a choice, their people or Lebanon's...guess what they are always going to chose their people. anyways israel is showing alot of restraint in this war, they are going after key targets, not just shooting hundreds of rockets at random into lebanon. the real problem here are the terrorist who started this attack. sadly that will get lost in europes anti-Semitism.

remember kids, even when attacked first and provoked by terrorist, its always the evil jews fault and they are always to blame......you people act like israel went out looking to kill some innocent people for fun, they were attacked and they did what ANY nation would and SHOULD do, defend themselves. but since they are jewish its not ok for that.:angry:

Just so you know, I wasn't being anti-Israel or anti-Semitic in my post. I am fully aware of the unwarranted attacks by Hezbollah as well. It just seems that Israel didn't even try any diplomacy before attacking.

[ugadawg5]

Just so you know, I wasn't being anti-Israel or anti-Semitic in my post. I am fully aware of the unwarranted attacks by Hezbollah as well. It just seems that Israel didn't even try any diplomacy before attacking.

was handing over the Gaza Strip diplomatic enough for you? what thanks did Israel receive? rockets fired from the Strip soon after the handover.

[Ergf]

was handing over the Gaza Strip diplomatic enough for you? what thanks did Israel receive? rockets fired from the Strip soon after the handover.


Handing over the Gaza Strip ? I thought they never should've taken the Gaza Strip, they have already taken so much ... why do they want more ? They didn't kill any terorrists by doing that, the only thing they did was making sure that little children will hate Israel and will become terorrists as well.

you probably think this post is anti-semitic .. well, its not supposed to be cause i think both sides are just as wrong

[Matan_18]

I am from Israel, and I want you people to read this for a second:
We don't want that war, here in Israel we only want to live in peace!! It's not our fault that the Hizballa, a terror organization, started attacking us!! You people of the world, just can't realize that!! Most of you don't know what TERROR is!!! Please just think for a minute: What would your country do if more than a hundred missles were being fired on your cities every day!?!?!? You just don't know it!!! So please stop saying that Israel is only looking for war and to kill civillians!!! Israel is a country that has the right to defend itself!! We don't kill the Lebanese people on purpose, the hizballa is shooting their missles from their cities and Israel has to kill those terrorists, not the civiliians...
Take by example the USA that entered Afganistan and Iraq because of the 11 of September..
So please try to understand our side better before you respond. We only want peace!!to live without missles everyday every hour.. you just can't realize that!!!


PLEASE READ MY MESSAGE...It's important..

[MrLick]

Just so you know, I wasn't being anti-Israel or anti-Semitic in my post. I am fully aware of the unwarranted attacks by Hezbollah as well. It just seems that Israel didn't even try any diplomacy before attacking.

WHy the fuck would they? it never works on terrorirst groups in that region. they had one option and that was to fight back

[Matan_18]

WHy the fuck would they? it never works on terrorirst groups in that region. they had one option and that was to fight back


I am so glad you see our point of view...
I hope other people around the world would understand that we can't talk with them. They're terrorists!!

[amsterdam528]

And that's the problem facing our world. Lack of communication, understanding and dialogue are permitting hatred and racism to spread like this.

That, is indisputable.

[Ergf]

PLEASE READ MY MESSAGE...It's important..


i read it and i see your point but still i think both sides in this conflict are both just as wrong

[Matan_18]

i read it and i see your point but still i think both sides in this conflict are both just as wrong


I know.. I just want to say that if we could stop that war with a gurantee that it won't continue whenever the Hizballa wants, we would gladly accept it and stop it!! Israel doesn't want wars!! We want to live in peace..

[Ergf]

i know ... but i think the arabic people don't see it that way. I think they want peace too but they still see you as invaders .. i don't think they'll ever want peace with Israeli living there. I don't think they're right but i think that that is what they think and i think that that is their reason to keep attacking you.

[burningmonk]

Gaza is like an big prison, sort of like a wildlife park. They aren't allowed to do anything until Israel agrees to, all the ports are cut off by Israeli ships, so they can't get anything in or out of the "country".

[Matan_18]

Gaza is like an big prison, sort of like a wildlife park. They aren't allowed to do anything until Israel agrees to, all the ports are cut off by Israeli ships, so they can't get anything in or out of the "country".


Maybe that's because when they get anything in, sometimes it's the "kassam" missles or any other weapons...
Ok you people, most of you I guess, just doesn't know what it means to live where the is a war going on. We only want to protect ourselves!! They only want to kill us..what can we do?

[GazeboflossUK]

US Rushing More Bombs To Israel

Nick Miles / BBC | July 23 2006

Reports from the US suggest Washington has been asked to speed up a shipment of precision bombs sold as part of a deal with Israel last year.

According to a report in the New York Times, Israel made the request after it began its air assault on Hezbollah targets in Lebanon 12 days ago.

The weapons, including five-tonne laser-guided bombs, are part of a sale signed last year.

Unnamed US officials say the request to speed up delivery is unusual.

The disclosure is likely to anger Arab governments because of the appearance that the United States is actively aiding Israel at such a sensitive time.

Precision-guided missiles are playing a key part in Israel's military strategy, which has included attempts to destroy bunkers it says are used by Hezbollah.

Israel is one of the largest customers for US armaments.

It also receives several billion dollars a year in direct and indirect aid from Washington.

[amsterdam528]

Maybe that's because when they get anything in, sometimes it's the "kassam" missles or any other weapons...
Ok you people, most of you I guess, just doesn't know what it means to live where the is a war going on. We only want to protect ourselves!! They only want to kill us..what can we do?

Are you 100% sure they want to kill you or is that just what everyone tells you?

[EL MASRY]

WHy the fuck would they? it never works on terrorirst groups in that region. they had one option and that was to fight back
note : plz be behave and dont use words like f**k coz this site or specially frum for good discussion not for bad words



israel have one option : you make laugh :D:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D (that enough) and this option made israel like bloodshed and masssacres like massacre of Sabra and Shatila ,are you know it or if you dont know
last days in labanon i thought this is enough to be convince (http://search.arabia.msn.com/results.aspx?q=convince+&FORM=SSRE)israel fighting coz its want fight and if isreal want to make a peace she do it like campdevid between egypt and israel. that all

[Matan_18]

Are you 100% sure they want to kill you or is that just what everyone tells you?


Yes I am sure.. you forgot the fact that the palestinian terrorists commited suicide in a bus full of kids!! and I know what you will respond, that we kill their children too. but the difference is that we are doing it because the terrorists are hiding inside the civillians' house, if we kill a family it's by mistake.
They enter our cities and kill on purpose a lot of kids and women and men..
So for your answer, yes, most of the palestinians and the Hizballa want to kill us!!

[EL MASRY]

i know ... but i think the arabic people don't see it that way. I think they want peace too but they still see you as invaders .. i don't think they'll ever want peace with Israeli living there. I don't think they're right but i think that that is what they think and i think that that is their reason to keep attacking you.



you got it man and i am so happy to see there other european people see true not images

[ugadawg5]

listen Matan_18 , this guy is clueless. That line of questioning whether you're sure they want to kill you is a load of bullshit and shows how intelligent he is.

YamiMarik528, get off your pedestal, fly to Haifa, and wait for the latest Katyusha rocket barrage to fly in, and then evaluate how sure you are that Hezbollah wants Matan_18 and you dead.

Once again Matan_18, ignore YamiMarik528, he is CLUELESS.

[amsterdam528]

It sure is easy to insult people from behind a computer, isn't it. :rolleyes:

[ugadawg5]

when they make ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE, then yeah, I guess it is. you are the first person i've ever insulted on this board, so you must be really be pissing me off with your stupidity.

it amazes me that you can be so lax in questioning the opinions of someone who lives in Israel. you come off as some all-knowing cocky bastard.

[amsterdam528]

Geez, you need to calm down.

[ugadawg5]

when someone makes light of the Israeli's situation it is hard to calm down. in that line, "Are you 100% sure they want to kill you or is that just what everyone tells you?" you are insinuating that this guy can't even make up his own mind about what is happening to his own country, and that he is being brainwashed or something.

one of the most slimy comments i've ever seen on this board.

it is obvious that you have no sympathy for the Israeli people, and that comment only cemented your status as a loon.

[amsterdam528]

Ever hear the expression "blind with rage?" Who knows? After all, we all know how people are brought up to hate others.

[MrLick]

And that's the problem facing our world. Lack of communication, understanding and dialogue are permitting hatred and racism to spread like this.

That, is indisputable.


Racism isnt spreading much anymore....its already been spread throughout europe and the middle east. but bottom line the only solution to this problem is through a military.

[ugadawg5]

tell me ,yamimarik, where you get off on telling people how they ought to feel about their country being attacked by hezbollah?

[berrywoman]

Racism isnt spreading much anymore....its already been spread throughout europe and the middle east. but bottom line the only solution to this problem is through a military.


:o

[MrLick]

note : plz be behave and dont use words like f**k coz this site or specially frum for good discussion not for bad words



israel have one option : you make laugh :D:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D (that enough) and this option made israel like bloodshed and masssacres like massacre of Sabra and Shatila ,are you know it or if you dont know
last days in labanon i thought this is enough to be convince (http://search.arabia.msn.com/results.aspx?q=convince+&FORM=SSRE)israel fighting coz its want fight and if isreal want to make a peace she do it like campdevid between egypt and israel. that all

chill the fuck out brah.

israel wasnts peace, sadly the middle east nations do not want the same thing as i israel.

[amsterdam528]

Racism isnt spreading much anymore....its already been spread throughout europe and the middle east. but bottom line the only solution to this problem is through a military.

Not geographically, but through generations of people. I don't agree with military as being the ONLY solution to the problem, but hey, I'm not going to insult you over your opinion.

(maybe you can learn a thing or two from mrcool, eh ugadawg?)

Um, and I don't tell people how to feel about anything... -_-;

[ugadawg5]

waiting for an answer yamimarik. you are not getting off the hook with that comment

[amsterdam528]

Ha I'm on a hook. I'm shivering in fear. :rolleyes:

[MrLick]

Not geographically, but through generations of people. I don't agree with military as being the ONLY solution to the problem, but hey, I'm not going to insult you over your opinion.

(maybe you can learn a thing or two from mrcool, eh ugadawg?)

Ok, maybe israel should shake its fingure at lebanon and the terrorist....oh i know what will solve all these problems israel can sit back and do nothing....thats the solution.

what other option does israel have?

[ugadawg5]

yamimarik = anti-semite

[berrywoman]

there has been a lot more causualties in Lebonon than there have bee in Israel.. not that it makes one better than the other.. but there has to be a medium where they can both live in peace... and it has to same something when Condi Rice is going to try and make peace over there.. it sends a message here... its a shame other can't see that...

[amsterdam528]

Ok, maybe israel should shake its fingure at lebanon and the terrorist....oh i know what will solve all these problems israel can sit back and do nothing....thats the solution.

what other option does israel have?

Not being a professional diplomat or world leader, I can't come up with any ideas off the top of my head. But there has to be SOMETHING other than killing another person, even if it is "justified."

Umm ugadawg, I'm not racist. I think it is you who are deflecting your own shortcomings at me now that you've lost this argument...and your composure apparently. -_-;

[berrywoman]

and lets keep the insults to a minimum shall we... we still have board guidelines to abide by..

[MrLick]

Not being a professional diplomat or world leader, I can't come up with any ideas off the top of my head. But there has to be SOMETHING other than killing another person, even if it is "justified."

Umm ugadawg, I'm not racist. I think it is you who are deflecting your own shortcomings at me now that you've lost this argument...and your composure apparently. -_-;


Sadly that is how the world works, sometimes that is the only answer. and in this case their is only ONE solution for israel, destroy the terrorist so they cannot attack again, anything else would be a waste of time.

[amsterdam528]

Well then call me optimistic that the way the world works can change, because I think there are other ways. I don't really think anything more needs to be said; my opinions, and I'm sure yours as well, aren't changing anytime soon.

[MrLick]

Well then call me optimistic that the way the world works can change, because I think there are other ways. I don't really think anything more needs to be said; my opinions, and I'm sure yours as well, aren't changing anytime soon.


Im tired of neo-hippies who dont live in reality. israel is pushed up to the wall, they have no other option.

[amsterdam528]

...? Is there something you're trying to accomplish? Cause I'm done debating...

[EL MASRY]

Yes I am sure.. you forgot the fact that the palestinian terrorists commited suicide in a bus full of kids!! and I know what you will respond, that we kill their children too. but the difference is that we are doing it because the terrorists are hiding inside the civillians' house, if we kill a family it's by mistake.
They enter our cities and kill on purpose a lot of kids and women and men..
So for your answer, yes, most of the palestinians and the Hizballa want to kill us!!
i want to anwser me no not me all of us
is killing civilians people can be misstake how its like i have gun and i suspect you so i must kill you and your family your mather and father and all your family . is this right
i supose killing one or two or three by misstake but not all family be by misstake, i have brain lust think by it
and after that we will say someone in palestin his family has been killed and he survived,can you imaging what did he think or supose to do,surely he will thinking in revenge that is normal respond by what happened with him
coz he is human have emotions about his family may mother or father or wife or kids or anyone who he loved
that is my opinion and i want to be clearly to everyone:cry: :cry: :(

[MrLick]

...? Is there something you're trying to accomplish? Cause I'm done debating...

just pointing out a simple thing, neo hippies like you dont seem to understand how the world works. go back to lala land if you are done with your talking.

[amsterdam528]

EL MASRY is absolutely right. It is human nature to take revenge. So who's gonna be the proverbial bigger man and rise over the bloodshed? Someone's gotta do it for the sake of this whole region. Israel / Lebanon needs a modern-day Ghandi. :\

mrcool, I was almost gaining some respect for you. Too bad. :\

[MrLick]

EL MASRY is absolutely right. It is human nature to take revenge. So who's gonna be the proverbial bigger man and rise over the bloodshed? Someone's gotta do it for the sake of this whole region. Israel / Lebanon needs a modern-day Ghandi. :\

mrcool, I was almost gaining some respect for you. Too bad. :\

no one will be the bigger man, because that will solve NOTHING. you cant have peace when one side wants nothing but war, the terrorist want nothing but war, no matter how hard israel would try for peace the only way to peace would be through its military. just like in ww2, if the allies would have been the "bigger man" things would have been worse. the only peaceful solutions would be for the terrorist to stop, and that would never happen peacefuly.

[MrLick]

people with your mindset think, one side has to be the bigger man and it will stop. thats not the case in situations like this. the only side that can be the bigger man and change anything would be the terrorist. now do you think they would ever be the bigger man?

[berrywoman]

I urge everyone to watch CNN Presents: Inside Hezbollah, you may learn a thing or two..

[EL MASRY]

just pointing out a simple thing, neo hippies like you dont seem to understand how the world works. go back to lala land if you are done with your talking.


again you dicussion someone that is wrong baby be behave i want to know how old are you ? i think 12 or 13 years old not above ohhhh how did you know this site !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i know site for you its very good for your condition www.behaviour (http://www.behaviour) therapy.com go to there and didt back before your condition will be improved to be behave with person older you
:lol: :lol: :lol: :P :P :P :D :D :D :D
note : this advice from friend:P :P

[GazeboflossUK]

Im tired of neo-hippies who dont live in reality. israel is pushed up to the wall, they have no other option.

You've been away for a while it seems, yet you come back even less informed.

Really, I mean this....you views on this matter are VERY wrong....almost everything you have said is off the mark.

And you might just think I'm saying this as a pure instant reaction to what you have said but this is not the case.
I am saying this because you actually ARE wrong. Not because I don't agree with you but because the information you have recieved and the view you have is made on inaccurate info and therefore isn't correct.

It can't be argued.

If you actually spent A LOT of time looking into actually how this conflict started and how it relates to previous events then you would be able to see your wrong.

But I'm afraid the TV over there has rotted many a brain.

This is a case of you saying that the colour white is black.....which as we all know is not the truth.

[MrLick]

again you dicussion someone that is wrong baby be behave i want to know how old are you ? i think 12 or 13 years old not above ohhhh how did you know this site !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i know site for you its very good for your condition www.behaviour (http://www.behaviour) therapy.com go to there and didt back before your condition will be improved to be behave with person older you
:lol: :lol: :lol: :P :P :P :D :D :D :D
note : this advice from friend:P :P


grow up please.

[MrLick]

You've been away for a while it seems, yet you come back even less informed.

Really, I mean this....you views on this matter are VERY wrong....almost everything you have said is off the mark.

And you might just think I'm saying this as a pure instant reaction to what you have said but this is not the case.
I am saying this because you actually ARE wrong. Not because I don't agree with you but because the information you have recieved and the view you have is made on inaccurate info and therefore isn't correct.

It can't be argued.

If you actually spent A LOT of time looking into actually how this conflict started and how it relates to previous events then you would be able to see your wrong.

But I'm afraid the TV over there has rotted many a brain.

This is a case of you saying that the colour white is black.....which as we all know is not the truth.


Sorry my friend you are the one devoid of knowledge on this situation.

[GazeboflossUK]

As I suspected. What a fool.

I'm sorry but it's true. My your poor 'god' help you.

[MrLick]

As I suspected. What a fool.

I'm sorry but it's true. My your poor 'god' help you.

Reverting back to childish insults i see....well you held out longer then i thought you would.

[GazeboflossUK]

Come on, it's not that insulting is it?

Really??

[MrLick]

Come on, it's not that insulting is it?

Really??

Ill give you this, i thought you would revert back to your childish insults a few weeks ago. so you did surprise me. but its not surprising you started up again.

[GazeboflossUK]

I'm not just randomly insulting you......I'm making what I think is an accurate statement. Really I am....

Definitions of fool.

FOOL: a person who lacks good judgment
.........a person who is gullible

It's not like I'm just using foul language at you.....I was stating a point.

[MrLick]

I'm not just randomly insulting you......I'm making what I think is an accurate statement. Really I am....

Definitions of fool.

FOOL: a person who lacks good judgment
.........a person who is gullible

It's not like I'm just using foul language at you.....I was stating a point.

No, you're acting like a little kid, AND THEN using childish reasoning to make yourself sound like the one whose acting mature.

nice try, but you're immature, no matter how you try to cut it.

[GazeboflossUK]

no - I really wasn't.

I think you are a fool.

That's it.

[MrLick]

no - I really wasn't.

I think you are a fool.

That's it.

Well since im the mature one, i wont say what i think of you. but please grow up. it'll do you well in this life.

[GazeboflossUK]

Don't tell me to grow up, just because I think your views are a result of being easily convinced by wrong information.

Everyone here knows I don't need to grow up and you just use this do get away from actually looking at what I said to you and doing something about it.

[MrLick]

Don't tell me to grow up, just because I think your views are a result of being easily convinced by wrong information.

Everyone here knows I don't need to grow up and you just use this do get away from actually looking at what I said to you and doing something about it.

I tell you to grow up because you are immature, and act like a 12 year old. it wouldnt kill you to be mature.

[green eyes88]

Just so you know, I wasn't being anti-Israel or anti-Semitic in my post. I am fully aware of the unwarranted attacks by Hezbollah as well. It just seems that Israel didn't even try any diplomacy before attacking.

Have u ever seen a diplomatic nagotiation with a terrorist orginazation?? If u have has it worked??

hizballa is a TERRORIST ORGANIZATION! Talking doesn't help- they either want it all or they'll attack. We gave back Gaza, u think that helped? They just want more...

believe me, if there was another way to do this on Israel's side, it would have been done. We dont want our ppl killed either.

[green eyes88]

EL MASRY

do u want me to post horrible pictures of what all the arab terrorist orginazations did here in israel only in the last decade to get some world sympathy, and to make the world know what the REALITY is to me? Cause god knows I have more than enough...
i also have some personal stories if want!!!

:-/

[MrLick]

Have u ever seen a diplomatic nagotiation with a terrorist orginazation?? If u have has it worked??

hizballa is a TERRORIST ORGANIZATION! Talking doesn't help- they either want it all or they'll attack. We gave back Gaza, u think that helped? They just want more...

believe me, if there was another way to do this on Israel's side, it would have been done. We dont want our ppl killed either.

I love you.

Anyways you're right. The only way to solve the problem here is through military means, Hizebolla will not respond to peaceful ways.

[green eyes88]

Well then call me optimistic that the way the world works can change, because I think there are other ways. I don't really think anything more needs to be said; my opinions, and I'm sure yours as well, aren't changing anytime soon.

all u ppl here keep saying" oh there's no antisemitism here! We only think there are more diplomatic ways to deal with this!!"

and again, i'm not trying to hide behind the excues that eveyone is a racist. But antisemitism is very strong around the world, even unconsiously, and just think about the fact the when the US attacked Iraq and Afganistan to kill off the terrorists and also hurt civilians while doing this, the response was a bit more subtle than it is when we talk of Israel- the jewish country.

u can deny it all u want, but u know it's true

[green eyes88]

i love u too mrcool001 :)

*i've been reading this whole thread, and I'm glad to know there are ppl like u :)

[MrLick]

the sign that there is ALOT of anti semetism in here is. israel is attack and defends itself and they are in the wrong....that is truly sad.

[huntjd]

yep sure is. especially when people comment when they have no connection to israel/lebanon just for the sake of being anti-war.

[green eyes88]

EL MASRY is absolutely right. It is human nature to take revenge. So who's gonna be the proverbial bigger man and rise over the bloodshed? Someone's gotta do it for the sake of this whole region. Israel / Lebanon needs a modern-day Ghandi. :\

mrcool, I was almost gaining some respect for you. Too bad. :\

you're right, revenge is only natural. Actually, it's a part of islamic culture- they believe in blood vengeance u know?
That's the problem. There was relative peace for the last 4 years, that's what we want. Even if we were feeling vengeance for the hundrends of civilians that the palestinians killed in the suicide bombings during 2002, we weren't attacking because Israel doesnt care about revenge!! We'd rather feel abit mad and stay alive, I think u can give us that much respect. However, the arabs, in their islamic origin let the revenge get over the need to live, I cant understand that really.
All the pictures u see of dead ppl thrown on the street on CNN and stuff isnt because we kill them in masses, it's simply because they have very little respect for a dead body... but that's beside the point

the point is, israel only attacks when it needs to protect itself, not because we want revenge.

[MrLick]

you're right, revenge is only natural. Actually, it's a part of islamic culture- they believe in blood vengeance u know?
That's the problem. There was relative peace for the last 4 years, that's what we want. Even if we were feeling vengeance for the hundrends of civilians that the palestinians killed in the suicide bombings during 2002, we weren't attacking because Israel doesnt care about revenge!! We'd rather feel abit mad and stay alive, I think u can give us that much respect. However, the arabs, in their islamic origin let the revenge get over the need to live, I cant understand that really.
All the pictures u see of dead ppl thrown on the street on CNN and stuff isnt because we kill them in masses, it's simply because they have very little respect for a dead body... but that's beside the point

the point is, israel only attacks when it needs to protect itself, not because we want revenge.

Exactly. Israel isnt the one going out and looking for trouble. they are simply defending and protecting themselves. Nothing evil or immoral about that. In fact they are the victims, and yet they are treated like they are evil for defending itself.

[green eyes88]

I'm not just randomly insulting you......I'm making what I think is an accurate statement. Really I am....

Definitions of fool.

FOOL: a person who lacks good judgment
.........a person who is gullible

It's not like I'm just using foul language at you.....I was stating a point.

It's ironic that u say all u say about mrcool being wrong. When they only ppl who are agreeing with ppl like u are either european or egyptian- or in other words, ppl who ARENT from isreal,and come from antisemitic countries. And their only means of knowing what really goes on here is through the media which is all one big propaganda.
I, on the other hand, who lives IN Israel, and has been expiriencing everythings directly, agree with mrcool completly and he knows what he's saying and is basing it on actual facts.

u my fellow, are the one that is basing your opinion simply on propaganda, and u should really stop being so arrogant

[green eyes88]

Don't tell me to grow up, just because I think your views are a result of being easily convinced by wrong information.

Everyone here knows I don't need to grow up and you just use this do get away from actually looking at what I said to you and doing something about it.

again, u are the fool that his views are being easily convinced by wrong information.

and again, stop being so arrogant. You dont know everything about the world- easy for u to speak when you're all the way in the UK

[EL MASRY]

you're right, revenge is only natural. Actually, it's a part of islamic culture- they believe in blood vengeance u know?
That's the problem. There was relative peace for the last 4 years, that's what we want. Even if we were feeling vengeance for the hundrends of civilians that the palestinians killed in the suicide bombings during 2002, we weren't attacking because Israel doesnt care about revenge!! We'd rather feel abit mad and stay alive, I think u can give us that much respect. However, the arabs, in their islamic origin let the revenge get over the need to live, I cant understand that really.
All the pictures u see of dead ppl thrown on the street on CNN and stuff isnt because we kill them in masses, it's simply because they have very little respect for a dead body... but that's beside the point

the point is, israel only attacks when it needs to protect itself, not because wewant revenge.


hey

FRISTLY: FROM WHERE YOU KNOW vengeance natural. Actually, it's a part of islamic culture- they believe in blood vengeance?only in your mind:thinking:
and i have example for arab peaple like peace
from month or more there is two egyptian soldiers has been killed on egyptian border between egypt and israel and who did killed them someone from isreali army and isreali goverment said that we are sorry and that is misstake and we forgive for that and our goverment said ok no problem,i want to ask you question if this happened in isreal i mean some form our army killed two from isreali army what will happen????????????
and secondly : we will suppose you see your family killed and what do you will do? someone you love killed what you will do ?people everymorning you weak up and see them and saying to them good morning that all stoped in day why coz they all dead what will you suppose do ? little boy see his famly killed what he will do when he will grow up ?????????? every second will passed hate will be increased from who was killed his family if is iraelian or not no differance,there is no relationship between it and his religion . are you understand or not and plz dont talking about islam religion because you dont know it.:thinking: :thinking: :thinking: :thinking:

[EL MASRY]

I love you.

Anyways you're right. The only way to solve the problem here is through military means, Hizebolla will not respond to peaceful ways.

are isreal use peacefull ways with Hizebolla before war !!!!!!!!!!!!!! i dont think so:dozey: :dozey: :dozey:

[green eyes88]

israel didnt have the chance to use peacful ways, as u call them, before the war with Hisballa because the whole thing didnt start in a peaceful way.
u should be asking the question the whole way around:

"Did Hizaballa use peacful ways with Israel in order to obtain its goal before attacking us?"

i know it sounds childish by saying "they started it", but the fact is, Hizballa is a terrorist organization that the only means they know for getting what they want is terror- violence.

and u may be arab, and think what u wanna think, but when it comes down to it, they wont hurt only jews to get what they want but arabs too-

they shot a missle at Nazerat which is an arab city in israel and killed 2 arab boys.
the fact they hide amongst civilians in lebanon shows how they just dont give a damn

i cant believe the arab community is so blind and naive, u only point the finger at israel because it's the easiest thing to do

[green eyes88]

hey

FRISTLY: FROM WHERE YOU KNOW vengeance natural. Actually, it's a part of islamic culture- they believe in blood vengeance?only in your mind:thinking:
and i have example for arab peaple like peace
from month or more there is two egyptian soldiers has been killed on egyptian border between egypt and israel and who did killed them someone from isreali army and isreali goverment said that we are sorry and that is misstake and we forgive for that and our goverment said ok no problem,i want to ask you question if this happened in isreal i mean some form our army killed two from isreali army what will happen????????????
and secondly : we will suppose you see your family killed and what do you will do? someone you love killed what you will do ?people everymorning you weak up and see them and saying to them good morning that all stoped in day why coz they all dead what will you suppose do ? little boy see his famly killed what he will do when he will grow up ?????????? every second will passed hate will be increased from who was killed his family if is iraelian or not no differance,there is no relationship between it and his religion . are you understand or not and plz dont talking about islam religion because you dont know it.:thinking: :thinking: :thinking: :thinking:

hmmmmmm "seeing my family killed"- are u forgetting where i'm from?!?!?! I bet u dont even know how many soldiers are killed by egypt, and again, the attack was provoked by the egyptian side, i'm gonna go and say what israel stands for again and again: "PEACE NOT WAR- COMPROMISE AND NAGOTIATION NOT COMPLETE DICTATION"...
heard of Gilad Shaviv?? Bet u didnt, bet they censor it in egyptian tv

ever hear of the suicide bombings??
if you're talking about how many families were hurt in the wars and trying to make me feel sympathetic towards egypt, you've really come to a person from the worng nation. You should really find out more before u speak...

[green eyes88]

oh, and about the stuff I know about the islamic religion, I had a billion seminars about the subject, and studied it at school and I know because after all we do live close to one another

didnt u eve hear a story of a muslim girl who lost her viriginity before marriage, the familied would exclude her and start a family rivalry for years. If one person kills one from another family, the other family will revenge. And it can last on and on until there's this thing call a "Sulcha"

again, go read alittle before u say things

[burningmonk]

oh, and about the stuff I know about the islamic religion, I had a billion seminars about the subject, and studied it at school and I know because after all we do live close to one another

didnt u eve hear a story of a muslim girl who lost her viriginity before marriage, the familied would exclude her and start a family rivalry for years. If one person kills one from another family, the other family will revenge. And it can last on and on until there's this thing call a "Sulcha"

again, go read alittle before u say things

Sulcha isn't even a word in arabic :rolleyes: and i should know. Your lecturers clearly had no clue what they were on about.

A Semite is actually anyone who speaks arabic. The word has been by changed to solely mean Jew http://www.axisoflogic.com/artman/publish/article_16377.shtml
So its rich that you are telling someone to read a little.

[huntjd]

Sulcha isn't even a word in arabic :rolleyes: and i should know. Your lecturers clearly had no clue what they were on about.

A Semite is actually anyone who speaks arabic. The word has been by changed to solely mean Jew http://www.axisoflogic.com/artman/publish/article_16377.shtml
So its rich that you are telling someone to read a little.

lol. semite is someone of arameic decendence. so technically muslims are included too (they were jews before they were muslim). so jews have not adopted it. ur speaking crap and if you give a site link make it credible please at least wikipedia or an encylopaedia, or can you not because they are 'run by jews'

[berrywoman]

ahh I love when Nick talk out of his ass.... its such a wonderful noise..lol



Dude.. why can't we just respect the way they live and end all this nonsense? Why does the rest of the world have to live in democracy and westernized like us?? If they are happy the way they are... and Hezbollah provides for them more than any US govt could provide for hurricane victims.. why can't we just let them be...

I think Israel may have overrreacted a bit to these kidnappings.. I don't even think there was a moment of negotiations with the two sides... it was just "oh you kidnapped our soldiers.. we're going to bomb your ass now... have a nice day"...... what kind of diplomacy and democracy is that? Who is to say that what we did to Iraq... (shock and awe days) --wasn't considered terrorism to the people of Iraq?? I mean seriously... its all done to instill 'fear' of those who oppose the change, right?

I think the word 'terrorism' gets thrown around waaaaaaaaaaay too much.. and thats exactly what the govt. wants... to instill fear. Period.

Did anyone watch the CNN special like I suggested??? Yeah... didn't think so. :\

[berrywoman]

AGAIN...

PLEASE TRY TO BE RESPECTFUL OF ONE ANOTHER.. IF WE CAN'T HAVE CIVILIZED DISCUSSIONS ON THE MATTER.. i WILL BE FORCED TO TAKE OPPROPRIATE ACTION AND CLOSE THE THREAD...

KEEP THE OFFENSIVE INSULTS TO A MINIMUM, IF NONE AT ALL..

THANKS!

[huntjd]

i know we should be respectful and all that... but what is one supposed to do when they are being attacked. in the case of this thread everyone should have the right to voice their opinions as long as no personal insults are present eg in relation to jews/muslims etc... thats just my thoughts.

*new topic*
i just don't think hypocrisy is fair where those who 'believe' western news are wrong, when there are those who staunchly believe in other forms of information should be told they are wrong for believing in what they hear. its just not balanced or fair. everyone should have the right to believe what they want. in regards to the whole hizbolla thing about supporting their community, has no one here studied international politics? the only reason an organisation supports is in the hope that support is reciprocated. this is also the case with the usa in israel, no denying that, but behind the lovey dovey support there are more sinister motives, in hizbolla's case the destruction of israel.

[Matan_18]

ahh I love when Nick talk out of his ass.... its such a wonderful noise..lol



Dude.. why can't we just respect the way they live and end all this nonsense? Why does the rest of the world have to live in democracy and westernized like us?? If they are happy the way they are... and Hezbollah provides for them more than any US govt could provide for hurricane victims.. why can't we just let them be...

I think Israel may have overrreacted a bit to these kidnappings.. I don't even think there was a moment of negotiations with the two sides... it was just "oh you kidnapped our soldiers.. we're going to bomb your ass now... have a nice day"...... what kind of diplomacy and democracy is that? Who is to say that what we did to Iraq... (shock and awe days) --wasn't considered terrorism to the people of Iraq?? I mean seriously... its all done to instill 'fear' of those who oppose the change, right?

I think the word 'terrorism' gets thrown around waaaaaaaaaaay too much.. and thats exactly what the govt. wants... to instill fear. Period.

Did anyone watch the CNN special like I suggested??? Yeah... didn't think so. :\



"oh you kidnapped our soldiers.. we're going to bomb your ass now... have a nice day"......
Ok.. what you said, I don't know if to cry or to laugh. We don't work that way, that's a proof of the way the world thinks about Israel!!
We only want peace, you people don't get it. Hizballa is a TERROR ORGANIZATION!!! They do NOT want peace, we can't talk to them. If we won't do something now, there won't be any gurantee the won't kidnap more of our soldiers whenever they want!! We don't want that war in Lebanon!! Really we don't!! We only want to live quietly here in Israel without missles everyday and our soldiers dying!!
We do not want to kill any Lebanese civillians!! The problem is that the Hizballa is shooting missiles from civiliian cities and we try very hard not to hurt civillians..
Please read this..

[huntjd]

matan when do you go to tzahal?

[Ergf]

"oh you kidnapped our soldiers.. we're going to bomb your ass now... have a nice day"......
Ok.. what you said, I don't know if to cry or to laugh. We don't work that way, that's a proof of the way the world thinks about Israel!!
We only want peace, you people don't get it. Hizballa is a TERROR ORGANIZATION!!! They do NOT want peace, we can't talk to them. If we won't do something now, there won't be any gurantee the won't kidnap more of our soldiers whenever they want!! We don't want that war in Lebanon!! Really we don't!! We only want to live quietly here in Israel without missles everyday and our soldiers dying!!
We do not want to kill any Lebanese civillians!! The problem is that the Hizballa is shooting missiles from civiliian cities and we try very hard not to hurt civillians..
Please read this..



i'm sorry but the bombings Israel is doing doesn't work. The Hizballa rocket launchers aren't in the middle of the cities. Israel knows that, they just want to break the spirit of the people. This is probably a good tactic to make it easier to invade Lebannon but Israel will never be able to destroy Hizballa by bombing civilians.
I said it before and I'll say it again, they are creating a hate against themself and that hate will make sure that Hizballa will always have new martyrs to attack Israel.

The rocket launchers just can not be placed in the middle of a city! they are in the mountains and woods of south-lebannon. Everybody knows that, Israel does, US does, UN does ...

[huntjd]

have you seen the rockets or something, or in with hizbolla or working for mossad? because they will be the only ones who know where the rockets are located. ive seen on the news, they are'nt that large the rockets, there is no reason that they could not be fired from civilian areas.

[amsterdam528]

So taking an objective stance saying that Israel is just as wrong as Hezbollah in this whole thing is anti-semitic? :rolleyes:

[huntjd]

no, not acknoweledging hizbolla has commited a crime and blaming israel is anti semitic, but thanks now that you have attributed blame to hizbolla...

[Matan_18]

matan when do you go to tzahal?


I am going to Tzahal in the next 2 months..soon

[Maldini]

LIES??? YOU THINK THAT I WOULD LIE ABOUT A BUS EXPOLIDING ONE KILOMETER FROM MY HOUSE AND KILLING 14 YEAR OLD KIDS ON THE WAY TO SCHOOL!!!
DON'T YOU EVEN DARE GO THERE BECAUSE IF THERE'S SOMETHING THAT MAKES ME HEAT UP IS WHEN PEOPLE LIKE U, WHO DON'T LIVE HERE AND DONT KNOW WHAT IT'S LIKE START JUSTIFING WHAT THE PALESTINIANS DO BECAUSE THEY CLAIM THE "DESERVE" THIS LAND, OR NOT ONLY JUSTIFY WHAT'S GOING ON HERE BUT DENY IT!!! I REALLY HAVE NOTHING LEFT TO SAY TO YOU, OR PPL LIKE YOU. YOU'RE SO SMALL TO ME, NOT EVEN WORTH MY NERVES OR MY TIME. SERIOUSLY, YOU CAN JUST GO FUCK YOURSELF OR SOMETHING, DONT INVOLVE YOURSELF IN THINGS THAT DONT CONCERN U

OH, AND YES!! IT IS A CIVIL DUTY, SINCE WE'RE BEING FUCKING ATTACKED ALL THE TIME, AND YEAH, IF I WANNA STAY ALIVE WE NEED TO GO TO THE ARMY AND FIGHT FOR OUR POSSTION. IM SORRY U FEEL SAFE WHERE U ARE AND U DONT HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT THINGS LIKE THAT
!!!!!!

Hey,hold on
I see you very nerves and plaase don't talk to me like this again

I refuse any act againist civilians,but remember that who go and explode himself.He have no chance left to do and he very hopeless.He see his people killed everyday kidnaping and raping.So what you wait from him

When one Israeliy soldier kidnaped,Israel kill and kidnaped hundreds,so it's good for Israel bad for Palestine

I also remember waht Israel did with Egypt and you say this things didn't concern me [ you must be kidding ]

If you come and take my house waht you wait from me to do [clapping ]
Ofcurse I will try to bring back my home and I will never let you even sleep

[Matan_18]

i'm sorry but the bombings Israel is doing doesn't work. The Hizballa rocket launchers aren't in the middle of the cities. Israel knows that, they just want to break the spirit of the people. This is probably a good tactic to make it easier to invade Lebannon but Israel will never be able to destroy Hizballa by bombing civilians.
I said it before and I'll say it again, they are creating a hate against themself and that hate will make sure that Hizballa will always have new martyrs to attack Israel.

The rocket launchers just can not be placed in the middle of a city! they are in the mountains and woods of south-lebannon. Everybody knows that, Israel does, US does, UN does ...



Ok do you have any relations there that you know where the rockets are launched from??
And I am not talking only about the rockts, the Hizballa people are hiding in civiliian territories and we want to find them too. Israel can't just destroy all the rocket launchers because it's not possible!! We have to destroy all the hizballa buildings and stuff.
If they will accept to be anarmed, we would stop that fighting I am sure

[Ergf]

have you seen the rockets or something, or in with hizbolla or working for mossad? because they will be the only ones who know where the rockets are located. ive seen on the news, they are'nt that large the rockets, there is no reason that they could not be fired from civilian areas.


then how comes that a few days of bombing have no result ? there are still just as much rockets as in the beginning. Even for small rockets you need a big base to fire them. It is possible to hide them in cities but the bombings didn't decrease the ammount of rockets so i doubt it.

[Maldini]

You're not worth arguing with. :rolleyes:

You saying that because you havn't anything to say

[Ergf]

Ok do you have any relations there that you know where the rockets are launched from??
And I am not talking only about the rockts, the Hizballa people are hiding in civiliian territories and we want to find them too. Israel can't just destroy all the rocket launchers because it's not possible!! We have to destroy all the hizballa buildings and stuff.
If they will accept to be anarmed, we would stop that fighting I am sure


i'm sure you would stop fighting but you know Hizballa will never surender. Its jihad for them. They won't stop till they're dead and once they're dead their children will take their weapons.
And do you think you can find Hizballa people by bombing whole cities ? you may kill a few but for every Hizballa warrior those bombs kill 5 innocent civillians. It sure is a way to kill Hizballa but that way you'll get the Lebannon army defending Lebonnon too. And then you'll really be in war.

[Matan_18]

Hey,hold on
I see you very nerves and plaase don't talk to me like this again

I refuse any act againist civilians,but remember that who go and explode himself.He have no chance left to do and he very hopeless.He see his people killed everyday kidnaping and raping.So what you wait from him

When one Israeliy soldier kidnaped,Israel kill and kidnaped hundreds,so it's good for Israel bad for Palestine

I also remember waht Israel did with Egypt and you say this things didn't concern me [ you must be kidding ]

If you come and take my house waht you wait from me to do [clapping ]
Ofcurse I will try to bring back my home and I will never let you even sleep



Ok I guess you don't understand the situation correctly..
Israel does not want to destroy civilian's houses!! We want to kill the terrorists. it's not our fault that the terrorists are hiding inside their neighborhoods!! I know it is hard for you to understand our side, or both sides. You have never seen a terrorist explodes himself near your home!!
I am not mad at you, but you just can't see the reason why we have to kill the terrorists..

[Maldini]

You're right, you should start off with someone on your level, like a brick wall or maybe a cat? you can work your way up to intelligent humans later on in life.:o

you gotta love the extreme anti-semetism in here, israel is attacked and they defend themselves and they are the ones who are doing the wrong and bad things.....:shocked2:

pretty sad.

Do you know something?
I get bored from anti-semetism

[Maldini]

Ok I guess you don't understand the situation correctly..
Israel does not want to destroy civilian's houses!! We want to kill the terrorists. it's not our fault that the terrorists are hiding inside their neighborhoods!! I know it is hard for you to understand our side, or both sides. You have never seen a terrorist explodes himself near your home!!
I am not mad at you, but you just can't see the reason why we have to kill the terrorists..


Terrorists a flexible word,you can kill anyone and say he was a terror,and he will not get alive again to defend himself

[Maldini]

Have u ever seen a diplomatic nagotiation with a terrorist orginazation?? If u have has it worked??

hizballa is a TERRORIST ORGANIZATION! Talking doesn't help- they either want it all or they'll attack. We gave back Gaza, u think that helped? They just want more...

believe me, if there was another way to do this on Israel's side, it would have been done. We dont want our ppl killed either.


Hizbolla isn't a terrorist orgnization

Do you think if give bake Gaza everything will be ok,so what about the rest of land

[Matan_18]

Terrorists a flexible word,you can kill anyone and say he was a terror,and he will not get alive again to defend himself


Ok do you know something??I understood something just now!!
Countries who has not exprienced terror, doesn't know what it is!! You just can't understand our side because Italy doesn't know what it is!! I really don't want anything to happen there(I am going to visit Italy next week by the way), but you should come here maybe for a week just to see it from our point of view.
We can't sleep quietly, the people in northern Israel are very poor now all day in the shelter!! If we could stop that war with a gurantee the hizballa won't start shooting whenever they want, we would have done it a long time ago!!
BUT WE CAN'T because HIZBALLA IS A TERROR ORGANIZATION and you just can't see it!!
ok I am not mad at you don't worry..

[amsterdam528]

You saying that because you havn't anything to say

Not to childish insults, no.

[Matan_18]

Hizbolla isn't a terrorist orgnization

Do you think if give bake Gaza everything will be ok,so what about the rest of land



"Hizbolla isn't a terrorist orgnization"?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
I CAN'T BELIEVE YOU JUST SAYED THAT!!!!!!!!!!!

[Ergf]

Terrorists a flexible word,you can kill anyone and say he was a terror,and he will not get alive again to defend himself


that's what guantanamo bay is all about ... people not even being accused of anything just getting tortured because they might be terrorists.

a few weeks ago a prisonner hung himself with his sheets. Some high american dude said: this is another way to fight a war for these terorrists. He said this was a way to get america criticised by the UN

[green eyes88]

Sulcha isn't even a word in arabic :rolleyes: and i should know. Your lecturers clearly had no clue what they were on about.

A Semite is actually anyone who speaks arabic. The word has been by changed to solely mean Jew http://www.axisoflogic.com/artman/publish/article_16377.shtml
So its rich that you are telling someone to read a little.

i dont care what the origins of the word are, i just know about it. And I study arabic as well so plz dont insult my intelegence سولحة

oh, and it's quite funny that you're only responding to the things I say that have no relation to the real situation, and you're avoiding other things, more essential

[Maldini]

all u ppl here keep saying" oh there's no antisemitism here! We only think there are more diplomatic ways to deal with this!!"

and again, i'm not trying to hide behind the excues that eveyone is a racist. But antisemitism is very strong around the world, even unconsiously, and just think about the fact the when the US attacked Iraq and Afganistan to kill off the terrorists and also hurt civilians while doing this, the response was a bit more subtle than it is when we talk of Israel- the jewish country.

u can deny it all u want, but u know it's true

In fact you really trying to hide behind the excues that everyone is a racist and antisemitism just on Jews minds and they trying to promot this thoughts

USA attacked Iraq and Afghnistan just to destroy what they MADE BEFORE

[Maldini]

Ok do you know something??I understood something just now!!
Countries who has not exprienced terror, doesn't know what it is!! You just can't understand our side because Italy doesn't know what it is!! I really don't want anything to happen there(I am going to visit Italy next week by the way), but you should come here maybe for a week just to see it from our point of view.
We can't sleep quietly, the people in northern Israel are very poor now all day in the shelter!! If we could stop that war with a gurantee the hizballa won't start shooting whenever they want, we would have done it a long time ago!!
BUT WE CAN'T because HIZBALLA IS A TERROR ORGANIZATION and you just can't see it!!
ok I am not mad at you don't worry..

Sorry,but I'm Egyptian [ I just put the Italian flag cause the World Cup]

[green eyes88]

Hizbolla isn't a terrorist orgnization

Do you think if give bake Gaza everything will be ok,so what about the rest of land

what about the rest of land??

see all the head of all those organizations are exactly like u- there's no word in your vocabulary that means "co exsistence". Why do u need it ALL?? Dont u have enough, you'll enjoy watching a whole nation homeless? So u'll use any means of terror and violence to make that happen.
you're telling me that isnt a terrorist organization?!?!

[Ergf]

what about the rest of land??

see all the head of all those organizations are exactly like u- there's no word in your vocabulary that means "co exsistence". Why do u need it ALL?? Dont u have enough, you'll enjoy watching a whole nation homeless? So u'll use any means of terror and violence to make that happen.
you're telling me that isnt a terrorist organization?!?!


no offence but i hope you understand their point. They really see you as the invaders who took their country away from them. I don't think you'd like it if other countries suddenly decide to give a piece of it to another kind of people without even talking to you

[Maldini]

"Hizbolla isn't a terrorist orgnization"?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
I CAN'T BELIEVE YOU JUST SAYED THAT!!!!!!!!!!!

No,belive it
If you want to discussion why it's ok

[Maldini]

what about the rest of land??

see all the head of all those organizations are exactly like u- there's no word in your vocabulary that means "co exsistence". Why do u need it ALL?? Dont u have enough, you'll enjoy watching a whole nation homeless? So u'll use any means of terror and violence to make that happen.
you're telling me that isnt a terrorist organization?!?!

What about the rest land?:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Do you know the history of Israel?

[green eyes88]

i am from israel, so yeah, i know the history.
and ppl saying "we were here first!! we were here first!!" really isnt an excuse to kicking 5 million ppl out of their homes and leaving them homeless.
oh, and I could just as much go 5000 years in the past and say that we were here first.
So the past is the past and the present is where we are. I dont understand the constant battle over this land when there is lots of arab land for muslims where they could live if they're not happy here. Immigration is a possibility for them.
We, on the other hand, dont have any other options

[Ergf]

i am from israel, so yeah, i know the history.
and ppl saying "we were here first!! we were here first!!" really isnt an excuse to kicking 5 million ppl out of their homes and leaving them homeless.
oh, and I could just as much go 5000 years in the past and say that we were here first.
So the past is the past and the present is where we are. I dont understand the constant battle over this land when there is lots of arab land for muslims where they could live if they're not happy here. Immigration is a possibility for them.
We, on the other hand, dont have any other options


why can they immigrate to other countries and you can't ?

[Maldini]

i am from israel, so yeah, i know the history.
and ppl saying "we were here first!! we were here first!!" really isnt an excuse to kicking 5 million ppl out of their homes and leaving them homeless.
oh, and I could just as much go 5000 years in the past and say that we were here first.
So the past is the past and the present is where we are. I dont understand the constant battle over this land when there is lots of arab land for muslims where they could live if they're not happy here. Immigration is a possibility for them.
We, on the other hand, dont have any other options

Who told you that if we get our land back,we will kicking all 5 millions Jews from it

No friend,we are not brutal as you imagin.Ofcurse we will live together

[green eyes88]

Who told you that if we get our land back,we will kicking all 5 millions Jews from it

No friend,we are not brutal as you imagin.Ofcurse we will live together

then how come we cant live together right now? Why are palestinians from inside israel bombing us? Obviously co exsistence doesnt seem to be happenning

because jews arent accepted around the globe. Remember ww2? And trust me, those who do get green cards to immigrate do it- no one wants to live in war. I happen to know since I work at the ministry for foreign affairs in that department and there are way too many israeli civilians who live abroad

[green eyes88]

and do u know of another jewish country? Or a place where everything is closed on saturday and u work from sunday to thursday? Or a place where everything is cosher? We need our own country as a religion. If history has taught us anything is that jews mixed with other religions is not a good scenario

[green eyes88]

oh, and I didnt say that the palestinians SHOULD immigrate, I said that if they feel bad here they have the option. No one tied them to the ground and told them to stay. Just like ppl in other countries do if they dont like it. They dont go on buses and kill themselves

[Maldini]

then how come we cant live together right now? Why are palestinians from inside israel bombing us? Obviously co exsistence doesnt seem to be happenning

because jews arent accepted around the globe. Remember ww2? And trust me, those who do get green cards to immigrate do it- no one wants to live in war. I happen to know since I work at the ministry for foreign affairs in that department and there are way too many israeli civilians who live abroad

Palestinaians want get back there lands and rule it,there are big differ from this two situation

[Ergf]

and do u know of another jewish country? Or a place where everything is closed on saturday and u work from sunday to thursday? Or a place where everything is cosher? We need our own country as a religion. If history has taught us anything is that jews mixed with other religions is not a good scenario



sorry for the language but i think that is bullshit. Muslims are all over the world, do they mind that i'm not praying to Mekka 5 times a day ? do they mind we have churches next to their mosque ? Hell no, we have our religion, they have theirs and we live next to eachother peacefully. They have shops and restaurants for themself, so have the jews in Antwerp (one of the biggest jewish cities together with New York, Jerusalem and Syndey). Those jews don't mind that the shops are open on saterday.

[Maldini]

and do u know of another jewish country? Or a place where everything is closed on saturday and u work from sunday to thursday? Or a place where everything is cosher? We need our own country as a religion. If history has taught us anything is that jews mixed with other religions is not a good scenario


Hey,ther are millions of Christians live in Egypt and there is no proplem with it,they closed thier works on Sunday and muslims on Friday there is no proplem here

USA have all religion and there aren't any proplems

As you say every religion must have their own country

In Egypt we saying [ The religion for GOD and the Home for All ]

[green eyes88]

sorry for the language but i think that is bullshit. Muslims are all over the world, do they mind that i'm not praying to Mekka 5 times a day ? do they mind we have churches next to their mosque ? Hell no, we have our religion, they have theirs and we live next to eachother peacefully. They have shops and restaurants for themself, so have the jews in Antwerp (one of the biggest jewish cities together with New York, Jerusalem and Syndey). Those jews don't mind that the shops are open on saterday.

again, remember ww2? After the holocaost everyone understood the the jews NEED their own country, it wont work any other way. Antisemitism has been in the world since the beginning of time, and it's only spreading more. As we get furthur and furthur away from the 1940s ppl keep forgetting what had happenned. And I believe Israel is a promise that that will never happen again

[green eyes88]

Palestinaians want get back there lands and rule it,there are big differ from this two situation

so did we. In hebrew there's a saying called "the yearning for Zion". All the time when the jews lived in the exile (translated from hebrew??) there was always a yearning to get back to zion, to israel. We say so every passover "next year in jerusalem". So why do u think there's a big difference between the 2 situations?

and all that I said about israel being a jewish country, I was trying to emphasise the fact that it's the ONLY jewish country. However, there are other muslim countries and chrisitan countries. So it's easy for u to say when u do have somewhere to go, where u definetly wont be persecuted for being who u are

[Maldini]

again, remember ww2? After the holocaost everyone understood the the jews NEED their own country, it wont work any other way. Antisemitism has been in the world since the beginning of time, and it's only spreading more. As we get furthur and furthur away from the 1940s ppl keep forgetting what had happenned. And I believe Israel is a promise that that will never happen again

Who make the Holocoast and the Anti-semitism already died,so there is no reasons to make private country

[green eyes88]

what? i dont understand what you're trying to say

if i understood u correctly, havent u ever heard of neo-natzis? and if I reallu understood u correctly, that's the most ignorant sentence I have heard in all my life

[green eyes88]

i have to go pick up my brother from work, but i'll reply when i get back.
It saddens me that this conflict is making ppl from all over the world to have such a strong opinion about this issue when they dont even live here. That's why alot of the time there's no other option to point at but antisemitism.
It also saddens me that debating this doesnt seem to be getting either side to any understanding or change in opinion... so what's the point

anyway, i'll be back later. bye

[Maldini]

so did we. In hebrew there's a saying called "the yearning for Zion". All the time when the jews lived in the exile (translated from hebrew??) there was always a yearning to get back to zion, to israel. We say so every passover "next year in jerusalem". So why do u think there's a big difference between the 2 situations?

and all that I said about israel being a jewish country, I was trying to emphasise the fact that it's the ONLY jewish country. However, there are other muslim countries and chrisitan countries. So it's easy for u to say when u do have somewhere to go, where u definetly wont be persecuted for being who u are

At first the yearning for Zion is a lies [ Jews leaders made this for there greedy invasion]

It's not our fault that Jews are minority in the world

[berrywoman]

"oh you kidnapped our soldiers.. we're going to bomb your ass now... have a nice day"......
Ok.. what you said, I don't know if to cry or to laugh. We don't work that way, that's a proof of the way the world thinks about Israel!!
We only want peace, you people don't get it. Hizballa is a TERROR ORGANIZATION!!! They do NOT want peace, we can't talk to them. If we won't do something now, there won't be any gurantee the won't kidnap more of our soldiers whenever they want!! We don't want that war in Lebanon!! Really we don't!! We only want to live quietly here in Israel without missles everyday and our soldiers dying!!
We do not want to kill any Lebanese civillians!! The problem is that the Hizballa is shooting missiles from civiliian cities and we try very hard not to hurt civillians..
Please read this..


don't misunderstand what I am trying to say here... I think bombings from either side is wrong.... I don't agree with needless violence.... and I wish we could all just come to a peaceful agreement. What I meant by that comment was simply a paraphrase... I haven't heard of any type of talks taking place after the kidnappings.... this is why I made that assumption and paraphrase.... It was not meant to be taken so literal.. so I guess you could laugh at it-- but it really isn't a laughing matter.

I meant no disrespect.. apologies if I did. :(

[Maldini]

what? i dont understand what you're trying to say

if i understood u correctly, havent u ever heard of neo-natzis? and if I reallu understood u correctly, that's the most ignorant sentence I have heard in all my life

No friend,the Holocaust is a reason for Israel to do what they want

I think the neo-nazist didn't make a threat for the Jews

It just a propaganda

[green eyes88]

At first the yearning for Zion is a lies [ Jews leaders made this for there greedy invasion]

It's not our fault that Jews are minority in the world

thanks alot, that's very respectful of u... (-_-)

[green eyes88]

No friend,the Holocaust is a reason for Israel to do what they want

I think the neo-nazist didn't make a threat for the Jews

It just a propaganda

you're just ignorant. And it's easy to speak when you're not the one that may be affected.
Plus, I dont think we need an excuse to have out own county, I think it's our right as a nationality. And the UN ageed, so your words dont mean much to me

[green eyes88]

don't misunderstand what I am trying to say here... I think bombings from either side is wrong.... I don't agree with needless violence.... and I wish we could all just come to a peaceful agreement. What I meant by that comment was simply a paraphrase... I haven't heard of any type of talks taking place after the kidnappings.... this is why I made that assumption and paraphrase.... It was not meant to be taken so literal.. so I guess you could laugh at it-- but it really isn't a laughing matter.

I meant no disrespect.. apologies if I did. :(

and after we make this wonderful peace agreement, we can all wear pink tutus and dance around on the clouds. :rolleyes:
you're very naive. Remember what happenned in Oslo in 1993. There was a so called peace agreement, but that didnt really last. Arafat and Rabin actually got a nobel award for that agreement!!
This time we're talking about the Hizballa, a terrorist organization- u really think it's possible to have adiplomatic nagotiation?!?
if u do, u are very very very naive.

[GazeboflossUK]

again, u are the fool that his views are being easily convinced by wrong information.

and again, stop being so arrogant. You dont know everything about the world- easy for u to speak when you're all the way in the UK

Oh be quiet.....

arrogant? me?

How has knowing the truth and not just lapping up the propaganda become arrogance?

Your exactly the same as the Americans who don't believe what your governments are doing and how the agenda was written years ago.

And this "easy for u to speak when you're all the way in the UK"......really shut up.
That's a not sensible comment.

I'm getting sick of this. Stupid people in large numbers.

I'm not like this normally (as people will tell you) but it's getting ridiculous.

[Ergf]

again, remember ww2? After the holocaost everyone understood the the jews NEED their own country, it wont work any other way. Antisemitism has been in the world since the beginning of time, and it's only spreading more. As we get furthur and furthur away from the 1940s ppl keep forgetting what had happenned. And I believe Israel is a promise that that will never happen again


the jews in Antwerp or New York or Sydney are not being killed or anything. They live peacefully with the other religions, they absolutely don't mind that we have another religion with other habbits and other believes.
And you said it yourself. We should stop living in the past. The jews have their own country and it doesn't work out, find a solution and stop hiding behind the holocaust, you can't justify all the jewish doings by saying 'remember the holocaust'. The jews that are not living in Israel have no problem at all.

[Matan_18]

the jews in Antwerp or New York or Sydney are not being killed or anything. They live peacefully with the other religions, they absolutely don't mind that we have another religion with other habbits and other believes.
And you said it yourself. We should stop living in the past. The jews have their own country and it doesn't work out, find a solution and stop hiding behind the holocaust, you can't justify all the jewish doings by saying 'remember the holocaust'. The jews that are not living in Israel have no problem at all.


Ok 2 things:
1. The jews around the world do suffer from anti-semitic!! I hear a lot of times of burnings Temples(of the jews), jews graveyards...
2. Who spoke about not having the jew country-Israel. It's a fact and accept it!!
We want to live in peace with our Arab neighbours but they(and you people) don't understand it...

[Ergf]

i'll answer:

1. the last burnings of jew properties in belgium was in the '80s.
2. I do inderstand that you want to live in peace but you have to understand that the arabs see you as the invaders. The enemie who took their land away. That's how they see you and i don't think they'll stop bothering you before they got you out of Israel.

don't get me wrong, i do NOT support the arabic terrorists. Neither do i support the Israeli. This is just how i see the situation.

[Matan_18]

i'll answer:

1. the last burnings of jew properties in belgium was in the '80s.
2. I do inderstand that you want to live in peace but you have to understand that the arabs see you as the invaders. The enemie who took their land away. That's how they see you and i don't think they'll stop bothering you before they got you out of Israel.

don't get me wrong, i do NOT support the arabic terrorists. Neither do i support the Israeli. This is just how i see the situation.


Ok..I can understand that.
But at least you are not like some other people here.. that support the arabic terror!!and the killing of the Israeli civillians..

[Ergf]

hell no, of course i don't support Hizballa all though i think they're not all the same as a terror group. I don't think a terror group would organize a real war like that. I think they'd strike once really hard and disappear but anyhow i don't support them and the killing of the Israeli civillians

but i also don't support the Israeli bombings and the killing of the Lebanon civillians.

[green eyes88]

Oh be quiet.....

arrogant? me?

How has knowing the truth and not just lapping up the propaganda become arrogance?

Your exactly the same as the Americans who don't believe what your governments are doing and how the agenda was written years ago.

And this "easy for u to speak when you're all the way in the UK"......really shut up.
That's a not sensible comment.

I'm getting sick of this. Stupid people in large numbers.

I'm not like this normally (as people will tell you) but it's getting ridiculous.

you're the sort of person who thinks that their opinion is the right and see other people as stupid if they disagree. You just said it yourself. To me that's arrogance.
and it also seems like u think u know everything about anything. Well newsfalsh- you dont!

[green eyes88]

hell no, of course i don't support Hizballa all though i think they're not all the same as a terror group. I don't think a terror group would organize a real war like that. I think they'd strike once really hard and disappear but anyhow i don't support them and the killing of the Israeli civillians

but i also don't support the Israeli bombings and the killing of the Lebanon civillians.

no one supports war- that's not something that anyone wants.
But sometimes it inevidble, as much as ppl wanna have this dream of how the world should be run. The reality is different

[berrywoman]

and after we make this wonderful peace agreement, we can all wear pink tutus and dance around on the clouds. :rolleyes:
you're very naive. Remember what happenned in Oslo in 1993. There was a so called peace agreement, but that didnt really last. Arafat and Rabin actually got a nobel award for that agreement!!
This time we're talking about the Hizballa, a terrorist organization- u really think it's possible to have adiplomatic nagotiation?!?
if u do, u are very very very naive.


was there or wasn't there negotiation talks??? ... thats all I am saying. Naive is a state of mind.. one to which I'm not enlightened to ne in... you perhaps have a different approach to this topic being as you are living it.. I don't have such a right. However.. it is a public forum so I can draw my own conclusions based on what I read and see on tv and such.

.... I'll ask you this, what caused them to back out last time this occured.. Hezbollah was still running around with the same antics... I'm asking because I don't know... educate me.

as I have said before.. I'm not taking sides here... I have no right to..

[Ergf]

^ that (what Green Eyes 88 said) is so true. If only the extremists at both sides would just kill themself together but no. They're letting others fight for them and that way this war will never really be over.

[green eyes88]

was there or wasn't there negotiation talks??? ... thats all I am saying. Naive is a state of mind.. one to which I'm not enlightened to ne in... you perhaps have a different approach to this topic being as you are living it.. I don't have such a right. However.. it is a public forum so I can draw my own conclusions based on what I read and see on tv and such.

.... I'll ask you this, what caused them to back out last time this occured.. Hezbollah was still running around with the same antics... I'm asking because I don't know... educate me.

as I have said before.. I'm not taking sides here... I have no right to..

well, the oslo agreement was an agreement that was made between the Ashaf, which is another organization that represents the palestinians that wants israel out, and between the israeli government. It's the exact nagotiation that everyone keeps talking about. The agreement had things to do with land, financial co exsistence, the promise on Ashaf's side not to use any terror and to promise peace and security in israel. Israel promised an autonomy for the palestinians in their territory (gaza strip..), and that still holds on today. They have Abu Mazen as their leader. But the promise for no terror and violence didnt really work out as you see- you give them a little and then they only want more. That's why nagotiating doesnt seem to work.
This whole war started with hizaballa attack in the north of israel when they killed 8 ppl (before that there were also kidnappings of some soldiers). It doesnt seem like they were talking in terms of peace to begin with.

and as I said, hizballa is a terrorist organization. I've never heard of a terrorist organization willing to make diplomatic nagotiations. It's always all or they use force. And obviously Israel wont give up all our lands and our homes. And fighting back is simply what we have to do

[berrywoman]

well, the oslo agreement was an agreement that was made between the Ashaf, which is another organization that represents the palestinians that wants israel out, and between the israeli government. It's the exact nagotiation that everyone keeps talking about. The agreement had things to do with land, financial co exsistence, the promise on Ashaf's side not to use any terror and to promise peace and security in israel. Israel promised an autonomy for the palestinians in their territory (gaza strip..), and that still holds on today. They have Abu Mazen as their leader. But the promise for no terror and violence didnt really work out as you see- you give them a little and then they only want more. That's why nagotiating doesnt seem to work.
This whole war started with hizaballa attack in the north of israel when they killed 8 ppl (before that there were also kidnappings of some soldiers). It doesnt seem like they were talking in terms of peace to begin with.

and as I said, hizballa is a terrorist organization. I've never heard of a terrorist organization willing to make diplomatic nagotiations. It's always all or they use force. And obviously Israel wont give up all our lands and our homes. And fighting back is simply what we have to do

its a mad world...

all I can say is... there has to be a 'happy medium' (so to speak).. in which we could all just accept one another as is... and just live. :( I hate to see all this hate.. all the unecessary violence and killings, bombings, poverty etc. Its just a mad mad world.

.. oh and thank you green eyes for educating me.. ;) this is one issue I am only recently getting information and knowledge on.. any and all information is much appreciated.

[MrLick]

are isreal use peacefull ways with Hizebolla before war !!!!!!!!!!!!!! i dont think so:dozey: :dozey: :dozey:

why would they? peaceful ways do nothing with terrorist groups.

[Bijeli_Miš]

Kinda reading the comments and such, makes me wonder why are the Jews hated so much as the Nick claims.Personally I'm indiferent about things concerning Jews(except for the circumsticion, but that's as far as it goes), mostly because I never met any(not that I know of) except on the internet.
And I belive self determination is a right of every ethnic group, but there are groups today that don't have their nation state, such as kurds and native indians.

[green eyes88]

i'm just wondering, what are your thoughts on circumcision?

i'm not religious or anything, so feel free to say whatever u feel...

[Bijeli_Miš]

i'm just wondering, what are your thoughts on circumcision?

i'm not religious or anything, so feel free to say whatever u feel...
Me neither, that's why I see it as a rather barbaric tradition(no offence).
I mean, if you wash regulary, your organ is gonna be just as hygienic.And if they do it to a baby it's just not fair, I mean what if a kid finds it inconvenient later in life, he had no control over his body.
I mean what does a God gain from a "cutted penis".

But I actually wanted to know whats this thing about Jew hatered, I mean I hear Jew this, Jew that, but out of context of current situation.I'd like to know historical reasons.

[green eyes88]

well, i learnt ALOT about antisemitism at school because well, it's part of our history, so it's taught alot.
There are many reasons why it started- blaming Jesus' crucifiction (sp?) on the jews, some murder cases which later were prove to be only propaganda and not really commited by jew. It's all sorts of things- the jewish community abroad was actually mixing in with the rest of the community, but still was different. So things just happenned. I think that a minority in any country can be easily blamed for all the problems within the country. And i'm pretty sure that didnt only happen with the jews.

about circumcision, to be honest, i really dont know where it says this needs to be done (i'm not very knowledgable when it comes to religious traditions). However, all baby jewish boys do get circumsized. Many parents now take their baby to a doctor that's also a MOhel (circumciser), so that it's more safe. All I know is I heard that what they remove is actually healthier that it's not there, and some adult males that aren't jewsih choose to do it, or parents who do it to their babies out of choice (non jewish ppl). And I think it's better to do it when it's a baby because the healing is better. That's what I understand anyways.
But it is a pretty weird tradition I guess, there's always a party for it and eveything (like anyone wants to see that done!!!). I once saw a stand up comic laughing about it. He was like "Religion makes u do funny things. You know, God created man kind in it's image (or however it is in english) and the man is God's greatest creation, except for the penus part. That part he screwed up..."
well... it was funny when I heard it :)

[Bijeli_Miš]

Well to use the chance while I can what's the thing with beards, and thoose things around hands?
Btw isn't the term Jew, somewhat ambiguos.Does one become a Jew by converting to Judaism, and what's with the non religious Jews, how are they defined?

[green eyes88]

I'm non religious. Being non religious and being defined as a jew I think would be like being deifned as a non religious catholic. It's in the more traditional sense of being jewish- celebrating the holidays (like u would christmas or easter) but not keeping all the commandments such as fasting at Yom Kippur, "saving Sabbath"- which pretty much means you cant do anything on saturday other than eat and sleep, or all the prayer etc. You're also not suppose to eat meat and dairy together, or bread during passover and stuff like that.
All the beards and clothing like how ppl image religous jews to be are things that evovled during the years through interpritations of the bible and stuff like that. I dont wanna say anything because I really have never studied this. I can find out and tell u more :)
That red braclet is from the Kabbala. A religious organization that's suppose to be very spiritual. I dont know much about it either :-/

[green eyes88]

the people with the beards are called "Hassids", and from what I get it's one flow of judaism that grew, and religious jews are usually related with these ppl. However, there are religious jews that are more moderate

I found some info about it on wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hassid

i'm heading off to bed now, because i've got to get up early for work tomorrow. But I'll see u around. Bye bye, good night :)

[berrywoman]

ok let me ask this... (I am learning so much in here today!) -- a few pages back we had a discussion with Jewish being considered a race and not a religion.. I had said that it is indeed a religion and not literally a race... mrcool (Nick) said that it wasn't because most people think of it as a race....

so, now I pose the question to you... how to you view it, and in fact.. could you tell us what it is.. I still say its a religion..

*gets her notepad out to take more notes and ready to learn* :nice:

[Bijeli_Miš]

I meant the sort of black spiral strap, that I've seen only in males(on tv of course, so I don't know i females wear it.)
But you see, if you don't profess Catholicism at all, or anymore, you've still part of the certain nation.
But what is a Jew that isn't a Jew? :)

[berrywoman]

a non-practicing Jew? :huh:

[Bijeli_Miš]

ok let me ask this... (I am learning so much in here today!) -- a few pages back we had a discussion with Jewish being considered a race and not a religion.. I had said that it is indeed a religion and not literally a race... mrcool (Nick) said that it wasn't because most people think of it as a race....

so, now I pose the question to you... how to you view it, and in fact.. could you tell us what it is.. I still say its a religion..

*gets her notepad out to take more notes and ready to learn* :nice:
You shoud take info from Nick with a grain of salt, after all, to him Catholics are not Christians(I still can't belive how he could say something so stupid), maybe he could learn new words from other places than Foxnews.

Imo, Jews are not a race, because I was always thought that there are basicly 3 different races.Europeids, including western civilization, northern Africa, mid east, latin America, and Australia and New Zealand.
Mongoloids who are Mongols, Koreans, Japanese, Chinese, Vietnamese and some other.
Negroids who generally occupy Africa.Now I'm not totally sure about this, like where aboriginals and indians belong, I belive Mongoloids.
Well, this is all interesting stuff, and one of the reasons I'd like to study Anthropology.

[berrywoman]

You shoud take info from Nick with a grain of salt, after all, to him Catholics are not Christians(I still can't belive how he could say something so stupid), maybe he could learn new words from other places than Foxnews.

Imo, Jews are not a race, because I was always thought that there are basicly 3 different races.Europeids, including western civilization, northern Africa, mid east, latin America, and Australia and New Zealand.
Mongoloids who are Mongols, Koreans, Japanese, Chinese, Vietnamese and some other.
Negroids who generally occupy Africa.Now I'm not totally sure about this, like where aboriginals and indians belong, I belive Mongoloids.
Well, this is all interesting stuff, and one of the reasons I'd like to study Anthropology.

:lol: I agree on Nick.. he's 'special' isn't he... lol

[GazeboflossUK]

you're the sort of person who thinks that their opinion is the right and see other people as stupid if they disagree. You just said it yourself. To me that's arrogance.
and it also seems like u think u know everything about anything. Well newsfalsh- you dont!


Well, I can see that I might be seen in this light but trust me I only want what is best and I don't see things like alot of people - I do so much reading of news and government documents...it would melt my brain to try and write it all down here.....

I just get really frustrated & tired with people not understanding the bigger picture......we are fighting amongst ourselves and it's all going around in circles really. This is very useful (in the wider sense) to those who are fueling this "war" as it takes the heat away from them.

I really don't want to be seen as the "******" but I really can't help it sometimes....it's like people are just ignoring some pretty important evidence....

anyway....

I'm going to have a wash....I'm all sweaty & dirty from playing footabll. ;)

[chuck kottke]

Hello Green Eyes & to all Hello!!
Having grown up in a family with lingering antisemitism, it took me a while to understand what's up with this insanity! You've already got a pretty clear understanding, but for me, piecing it together took a while... To start with, my ancestors came from Germany prior to WWI. The best I can figure is that the Jewish people in Germany (who were pretty much ordinary Germans, but retained their religious identity) filled the roles of bankers more than anyone else in that country. People of the Christian faith were forbid to lend money (you were just supposed to give it generously to help a fellow Christian, who then had no obligation to pay it back!). An idea that wouldn't work, as one should expect! So, those Jewish Germans naturally acted as bankers, and excelled at it. Then, because one of the Apostles (Paul, as I recall) had been trying to convert more Romans to the Christian faith, he had to re-write part of the bible a little bit. The business of the Pharisees (scholarly Jewish priests) having turned Jesus into the authorities and forcing the Romans into a no-win situation, where the Romans had to execute Jesus to follow Roman law, was added later. It was actually the Romans who, in all likelihood, caught, tried, convicted, and executed Jesus for being an insurrectionist! But Paul was trying to convert Romans who wanted a better faith than the pantheon of Gods and Goddesses, so he fudged the novel a bit, to make the Romans look less guilty, and get their support for the fledgling Christian faith.
Ever since then, it was pretty easy for power-obsessed people, looking for a scapegoat, to blame the jewish europeans for anything that went wrong! (Ironically, Jesus was jewish, and yet these Europeans were persecuting Jewish members of their own countries! makes no sense to me either!)
And, that brings me back to what went wrong in our family. Not that my family's horrible - just a little mixed up on this one issue.
Grandpa had cousins in Germany prior to the Great Depression, and they had just borrowed heavily to finance the cost of new farm machinery. Then the Depression hit, and Germany was devastated economically. So, the loans still had to be repaid (no bail out programs back then!), and they lost the farms they had originally mortgaged to get the loans. They blamed the jewish bankers who had lent them the money and had sold their land in lieu of debts owed! It wasn't the banker's fault, nor the farmers - it was bad decisions by investors (many American), an impossible war debt to the allies, and a bad decision to try and print themselves out of their obligations by the German Government way back then that led to the failue. But, when things go bad, people look to blame SOMEONE, and guess who got the blame! So, there was always this lingering angst against anyone who was of the jewish faith, even though our family had very little contact with anyone of the jewish faith! It took me a while to figure it out, and I have no such resentment - but a much better understanding of how people get scapegoated or mislabelled!
Probably, and this is just me trying to make sense of it, what's going on there in the Holy Lands, is akin to what one might expect under the circumstances. Israel is a modern state, and just like the US or any other modern state, reacts strongly to any attack or percieved threat. And, that danger is mighty close to home!! So, millitary planners, knowing mainly millitary "solutions", use what they practice, which if often more than is necessary, and can lead to more tragedy in trying to obtain justice.
Levelling a town because some terrorists are digging tunnels and smuggling arms there makes no sense - it's way out of porportion to the threat, and I can only see that as creating fodder for more extremists, as there's gonna be a lot more unhappy people after that happens! The US does the same - I spoke to an Iraqi vet who was there when the US levelled part of Bagdad, because the insurgents were hiding out there. It always backfires, but I can see why the orders are given - it gets the enemy (and inflames the hatred of thousands upon thousands of otherwise amenable people! - that part usually isn't entered into the initial calculus). So, I think we need to put our best foot forward. Be as careful, as justified in our actions, and as thoughtful of acting as though we were dealing with the problem right in our own neighborhood. The majority of Palestinians are good, descent, honest folks, as well as the Israelis, just as US citizens and Iraqis are descent, or anywhere else, for that matter. As long as we remember to walk a mile in the moccasins of those other folks, well be alright, and make much better decisions!
One final thought - Beware of the People running the Pep Rallies! I like a good game as well as the next person, but I'm keenly aware of how we can get caught up in the fever of the moment, and all too easily forget that we are all human, all of the same family. Considering that our current President was once a Cheer Leader for Yale, I think he still sees things in those terms. Us and them. Black and white. North and south. Not a good trait for someone dealing with a complex world!! I love the Teams, Nations, and Religions of the world for the Enthusiasm - Color, Spectacle, and Meaning - they bring to life, but hope we remember to stay connected on a Human and Spiritual level above it all.


As far a circumcisions are concerned, I'm told that there's less chance of disease or infection, and that's the whole reason for it. So, it sounds logical! But why then would we have features that might get infected? This isn't very smart, evolutionarily speaking! But, then our appendix runs a risk of infection as well, though that does have some function, albeit minor. Maybe just an evolutionary spare part, that hasn't been discarded yet from the playing deck?? Beats the heck out of me!!!

LongWindedly Yours,:juggle:
-Chuck

[GazeboflossUK]

UK Govt Sources Confirm War With Iran Is On

Op-Ed News | July 24, 2006
by Nafeez Mosaddeq Ahmed

UK Govt Sources Confirm War With Iran Is On
In the last few days, I learned from a credible and informed source that a former senior Labour government Minister, who continues to be well-connected to British military and security officials, confirms that Britain and the United States

"... will go to war with Iran before the end of the year."

As we now know from similar reporting prior to the invasion of Iraq, it's quite possible that the war planning may indeed change repeatedly, and the war may again be postponed. In any case, it's worth noting that the information from a former Labour Minister corroborates expert analyses suggesting that Israel, with US and British support, is deliberately escalating the cycle of retaliation to legitimize the imminent targeting of Iran before year's end. Let us remind ourselves, for instance, of US Vice President Cheney's assertions recorded on MSNBC over a year ago. He described Iran as being "right at the top of the list" of "rogue states". He continued: "One of the concerns people have is that Israel might do it without being asked... Given the fact that Iran has a stated policy that their objective is the destruction of Israel, the Israelis might well decide to act first, and let the rest of the world worry about cleaning up the diplomatic mess afterwards."

But the emphasis on Israel's pre-eminent role in a prospective assault on Iran is not accurate. Israel would rather play the role of a regional proxy force in a US-led campaign. "Despite the deteriorating security situation in Iraq, the Bush Administration has not reconsidered its basic long-range policy goal in the Middle East..." reports Seymour Hersh. He quotes a former high-level US intelligence official as follows:

"This is a war against terrorism, and Iraq is just one campaign. The Bush Administration is looking at this as a huge war zone. Next, we're going to have the Iranian campaign. We've declared war and the bad guys, wherever they are, are the enemy. This is the last hurrah-we've got four years, and want to come out of this saying we won the war on terrorism."

Are these just the fanatical pipedreams of the neoconservative faction currently occupying (literally) the White House?

Unfortunately, no. The Iraq War was one such fanatical pipedream in the late 1990s, one that Bush administration officials were eagerly ruminating over when they were actively and directly involved in the Project for a New American Century. But that particular pipedream is now a terrible, gruelling reality for the Iraqi people. Despite the glaring failures of US efforts in that country, there appears to be a serious inability to recognize the futility of attempting the same in Iran.

The Monterey Institute for International Studies already showed nearly two years ago in a detailed analysis that the likely consequences of a strike on Iran by the US, Israel, or both, would be a regional conflagaration that could quickly turn nuclear, and spiral out of control. US and Israeli planners are no doubt aware of what could happen. Such a catastrophe would have irreversible ramifications for the global political economy. Energy security would be in tatters, precipitating the activation of long-standing contingency plans to invade and occupy all the major resource-rich areas of the Middle East and elsewhere (see my book published by Clairview, Behind the War on Terror for references and discussion). Such action could itself trigger responses from other major powers with fundamental interests in maintaining their own access to regional energy supplies, such as Russia and particularly China, which has huge interests in Iran. Simultaneously, the dollar-economy would be seriously undermined, most likely facing imminent collapse in the context of such crises.

Which raises pertinent questions about why Britain, the US and Israel are contemplating such a scenario as a viable way of securing their interests.

A glimpse of an answer lies in the fact that the post-9/11 military geostrategy of the "War on Terror" does not spring from a position of power, but rather from entirely the opposite. The global system has been crumbling under the weight of its own unsustainability for many years now, and we are fast approaching the convergence of multiple crises that are already interacting fatally as I write. The peak of world oil production, of which the Bush administration is well aware, either has already just happened, or is very close to happening. It is a pivotal event that signals the end of the Oil Age, for all intents and purposes, with escalating demand placing increasing pressure on dwindling supplies. Half the world's oil reserves are, more or less, depleted, which means that it will be technologically, geophysically, increasingly difficult to extract conventional oil. I had a chat last week with some scientists from the Omega Institute in Brighton, directed by my colleague and friend Graham Ennis, who told me eloquently and powerfully what I already knew, that while a number of climate "tipping-points" may or may not have yet been passed, we have about 10-15 years before the "tipping-point" is breached certainly and irreversibly. Breaching that point means plunging head-first into full-scale "climate catastrophe". Amidst this looming Armageddon of Nature, the dollar-denominated economy itself has been teetering on the edge of spiralling collapse for the last seven years or more. This is not idle speculation. A financial analyst as senior as Paul Volcker, Alan Greenspan's immediate predecessor as chairman of the Federal Reserve, recently confessed "that he thought there was a 75% chance of a currency crisis in the United States within five years."

There appears to have been a cold calculation made at senior levels within the Anglo-American policymaking establishment: that the system is dying, but the last remaining viable means of sustaining it remains a fundamentally military solution designed to reconfigure and rehabilitate the system to continue to meet the requirements of the interlocking circuits of military-corporate power and profit.

The highly respected US whistleblower, former RAND strategic analyst Daniel Ellsberg, who was Special Assistant to Assistant Secretary of Defense during the Vietnam conflict and became famous after leaking the Pentagon Papers, has already warned of his fears that in the event of "another 9/11 or a major war in the Middle-East involving a U.S. attack on Iran, I have no doubt that there will be, the day after or within days an equivalent of a Reichstag fire decree that will involve massive detentions in this country, detention camps for middle-easterners and their quote 'sympathizers', critics of the President's policy and essentially the wiping-out of the Bill of Rights."

So is that what all the "emergency preparedness" legislation, here in the UK as well as in the USA and in Europea, is all about? The US plans are bad enough, as Ellsberg notes, but the plans UK scene is hardly better, prompting The Guardian to describe the Civil Contingencies Bill (passed as an Act in 2004) as "the greatest threat to civil liberty that any parliament is ever likely to consider."

As global crises converge over the next few years, we the people are faced with an unprecedented opportunity to use the growing awareness of the inherent inhumanity and comprehensive destructiveness of the global imperial system to establish new, viable, sustainable and humane ways of living.


It was always going to happen.

[chuck kottke]

PS - In regards to GazeboflossUK - lots of questions with the most secretive government in US history. I like to turn Pres. Bush's quote back onto his own little world, relative to surveilance of our citizens - "Hey, after all... Whaddaya got to hide hee, hee.." Comeon George, whaddaya got to hide, hee, hee!"
Can anyone say "NIXON" ten times? It's got us all scared - not the land of the free like it used to be!!
Trying to Turn the Ship Around in Time,
-Chuck

[chuck kottke]

Hey Gazebofloss!!
I hear you loud and clear! I just hope we're over-extended enough, and the failures of the war in Iraq are enough to keep us out of any more global mizery. I've declared my own personal war on oil - I've been getting one of our local manufacturers to begin production of high efficiency wood gassification & gen set systems for home use - designed to efficiently turn wood chunks, waste paper, or any solid organic matter into fuel for direct home heat and electricity production. The maket can only grow rapidly as time passes! Renewables are the way to go, as oil, war, and climate issues must be addressed. Solar panels are nice, as are wind options, but our climate lacks both in the critical winter months, so we're faced with fewer options - it's either biofuels in winter, or bundle up! Superinsulation gets us 90% of the way there, as well as better transportation options, so I'm hopeful we can do it. Heck, we don't really have a choice!!
Keep up the good work, and Great Analysis!!
Sincerely,
-Chuck

PS - has there been any real political reform efforts in Great Brittian? Effective??

[amsterdam528]

Hey Gazebofloss!!
I hear you loud and clear! I just hope we're over-extended enough, and the failures of the war in Iraq are enough to keep us out of any more global mizery. I've declared my own personal war on oil - I've been getting one of our local manufacturers to begin production of high efficiency wood gassification & gen set systems for home use - designed to efficiently turn wood chunks, waste paper, or any solid organic matter into fuel for direct home heat and electricity production. The maket can only grow rapidly as time passes! Renewables are the way to go, as oil, war, and climate issues must be addressed. Solar panels are nice, as are wind options, but our climate lacks both in the critical winter months, so we're faced with fewer options - it's either biofuels in winter, or bundle up! Superinsulation gets us 90% of the way there, as well as better transportation options, so I'm hopeful we can do it. Heck, we don't really have a choice!!
Keep up the good work, and Great Analysis!!
Sincerely,
-Chuck

PS - has there been any real political reform efforts in Great Brittian? Effective??

As soon as I become independent, I will as well. Oil is ruining this country almost as much as Bush's policies. I can't wait for the day when all cars are replaced with something cleaner and more efficient.

Gazebofloss, even though that's an Op-Ed article with an overwhelming liberal bias that I'm taking with a grain of salt, I am now scared shitless of war with Iran. We can't do it...I know we can't.

[GazeboflossUK]

Gazebofloss, even though that's an Op-Ed article with an overwhelming liberal bias that I'm taking with a grain of salt, I am now scared shitless of war with Iran. We can't do it...I know we can't.

Hmmm...Yeah, I know it's Op-Ed.......but....I thought if there is any truth to these quotes then we will all have to find out the hard way, unfortunatley.
I have always thought that Iran will be "brought" into this one way or another.....it was just a matter of "how" I think. Scary.

[GazeboflossUK]

http://www.prisonplanet.com/images/july2006/240706tank.jpg

Israeli Bombardment Of Lebanon Escalation For World War Three
Hyped incursions, kidnappings designed to trap Syria and Iran

Paul Joseph Watson & Alex Jones | July 24 2006 (http://www.prisonplanet.com/index.html)

The Israeli bombardment of Lebanon is the next escalation of a conflict that is being orchestrated according to a set roadmap that leads directly to World War Three.

Israel, the United States and Great Britain have been caught red-handed on numerous occasions staging terror attacks and false flag provocations (http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB126/index.htm) in the Middle East for over 50 years.

How can we any longer believe anything our governments tell us about their actions in the Middle East?

Immediately after Bush's ultimatum to Iran which was rebuffed, conventional and normal captures and military incursions on both sides, when measured against the bellwether of the usual temperature of chaos in the region, are suddenly hyped beyond all proportion by the world media.

Israel's bombardment of the length and breadth of Lebanon has been characterized by its targeting of innocent civilians - including two incidents in Marwaheen and Taire (http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/july2006/240706Villagers.htm) where civilians were ordered to leave an area whereupon their escape vehicles were deliberately pulverized by Israeli Hellfire missiles.

At their root these are the very characteristics of a terrorist state engaging in terrorist attacks upon innocent populations.

Meanwhile, Hezbollah's limited response has impacted mainly military targets - with many suggesting that the often recycled pictures of damage from Hezbollah rockets betrays the notion that thousands have been fired as the Israelis claim.


Some would go further and finger the Israelis for attacking their own interests to maintain a false scapegoat and justification for further evisceration in Lebanon. Israel's documented history of manufacturing phony Al-Qaeda groups (http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/12/08/1038950271656.html) to demonize the Palestinians is without question.

Israel's insistence that a ground war and an advance into northern Lebanon is not out of the question could bring the Syrians and their Iranian allies into the conflict which would in turn would present the saliva-drenched Neo-Cons with their long-awaited pretext to take Assad and Ahmadinejad out of the game.

This is nothing less than a cooked escalation for war.

As reported by New Yorker magazine, (http://www.commondreams.org/headlines05/0117-10.htm) US troops and special operations forces have been active inside Iran for over a year waiting for the right opportunity to enact destabilization tactics once the green light is given.

This is simply another fuse that has been lit to ignite the order out of chaos agenda (http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/march2006/100306orderchaos.htm) that has already turned Iraq into a hellhole only stable enough for one foundational precedent - a limitless occupation and an endless slush fund of no-bid contracts for US government affiliated corporations. In addition, tight control of oil flow and jacked-up prices to promote artificial scarcity worldwide continue to benefit blueprints laid out by oil companies (http://www.prisonplanet.com/archives/peak_oil/index.htm) many years before.

Whether it stops in Lebanon or rolls into Syria - this is the orchestration of World War 3, World War 4 to Neo-Cons - if only on the level of a trial balloon to judge how events will play out when a similar hand is dealt.

[MrLick]

You shoud take info from Nick with a grain of salt, after all, to him Catholics are not Christians(I still can't belive how he could say something so stupid), maybe he could learn new words from other places than Foxnews.

Imo, Jews are not a race, because I was always thought that there are basicly 3 different races.Europeids, including western civilization, northern Africa, mid east, latin America, and Australia and New Zealand.
Mongoloids who are Mongols, Koreans, Japanese, Chinese, Vietnamese and some other.
Negroids who generally occupy Africa.Now I'm not totally sure about this, like where aboriginals and indians belong, I belive Mongoloids.
Well, this is all interesting stuff, and one of the reasons I'd like to study Anthropology.

stupid? when they go agaisnt core teaching of jesus, how can they be the same as him? i guess you can say they are christians, like i can say the terrorist muslims are muslims. but when it comes down to it, they dont follow the teaching of the quran, and the catholic church doesnt follow what jesus preached. but i guess its stupid to say people who dont follow what jesus wanted are not christians. :rolleyes:

ill use simple words for you....if the "muslim" terrorist do not follow islam then they are not truly muslims...still with me? so if catholics do not follow what jesus taught and in many key area's go agaisnt it, they are not truly christians.....lets hope we all learned something today! I hope you were able to follow, i made it as simple as possible. But if you want to get more complex, Catholicism is more like a pseudo-christianity. its similar but not quite the same.


i would advise you to learn before you speak. i have said it a million times, i dont watch fox news often. my main new sources are european. the only american news i watch alot of are the cbs and nbc nightly news and msnbc.....so please before you open your mouth, know what the fuck you are talking about. It's childish to do othewise.

[MrLick]

:lol: I agree on Nick.. he's 'special' isn't he... lol


Sorry but jews are a race. people try to make them not so their dislike and hatred of them wont seem as bad....its a way of making it seem not as evil. like if i were to say black people werent a race and then when i was "racist" towards them i wouldnt actually be racist......its a common thing humans do, to shush that annoying conscience of theirs......truly sad, but truly human.

similar things were done with slaves, they werent viewed as truly human, so when people mistreated them and were racist people didnt feel as guilty about it. truly sad.

btw smart people are special. sorry you're not special, but im sure your parents think so...:)

[green eyes88]

ok let me ask this... (I am learning so much in here today!) -- a few pages back we had a discussion with Jewish being considered a race and not a religion.. I had said that it is indeed a religion and not literally a race... mrcool (Nick) said that it wasn't because most people think of it as a race....

so, now I pose the question to you... how to you view it, and in fact.. could you tell us what it is.. I still say its a religion..

*gets her notepad out to take more notes and ready to learn* :nice:

well, it's a religion like christianity is a religioun. It's only a race if u look back thousands of years and see that we all have the same origin. But the different ppl that are jewish will just make u see that actually Judaism is a religion. After all the jews that came to israel from all over the world came from very different places- countires in europe and countries in north africa. So you would think that racially they were different. Physically u can see a difference between ppl from the europian countires and the ones from north africa (i'm half half- my dad's parents came from Lybia and Iraq. My Mom's parents came from Yugoslavia, which is now Serbia).
I think that ever since the foundation of Israel ppl look at judaism as a nationality in the sense that there are sooo many different ppl that live in israel and are considered israeli, and one of the main things that makes us all the same is the fact that we're jewish. It's what unites us. So maybe that's why ppl sometimes look at judaism as a race. Israel was also founded as a "national- religious country".

[green eyes88]

I meant the sort of black spiral strap, that I've seen only in males(on tv of course, so I don't know i females wear it.)
But you see, if you don't profess Catholicism at all, or anymore, you've still part of the certain nation.
But what is a Jew that isn't a Jew? :)

a jew that isnt a jew, is simply a jew that doesnt see himself as jewish. That's individual. Technically, there are laws that define who is and sint jewish- it was something that has been a conflict during the years trying to define who is jewish. I learned about this in the 10th, and they decided that a jew is:
-someone born to a jewish mother (not father, unlike christianity. It's the mother because u can only know for sure that the mother is the real mother, unlike the father)
- someone who converted (following certain guidelines I'm guessing, that I'm not really familiar with. There are so many kinds of Judaism these days, that u could find ppl who would tell u very different ways of converting).

and about that strap, it is only for boys. It's called "Tfilin". I know men do this alot, ever since they're 13 and have a Bar Mitsva. But I dont know much about that. Maybe Matan knows more...i feel stupid. I dont know too much about my religion because i'm very non religious

[huntjd]

a jew that isnt a jew, is simply a jew that doesnt see himself as jewish. That's individual. Technically, there are laws that define who is and sint jewish- it was something that has been a conflict during the years trying to define who is jewish. I learned about this in the 10th, and they decided that a jew is:
-someone born to a jewish mother (not father, unlike christianity. It's the mother because u can only know for sure that the mother is the real mother, unlike the father)
- someone who converted (following certain guidelines I'm guessing, that I'm not really familiar with. There are so many kinds of Judaism these days, that u could find ppl who would tell u very different ways of converting).

and about that strap, it is only for boys. It's called "Tfilin". I know men do this alot, ever since they're 13 and have a Bar Mitsva. But I dont know much about that. Maybe Matan knows more...i feel stupid. I dont know too much about my religion because i'm very non religious

neither am i religious. i have tefillin, but haven't worn them since barmitzvah (maybe once or twice). they contain special parts of bible that have deep spiritual meaning like the shema etc.
in regards to jews as a race... adam u are wrong. sorry dude. i studied races at school as part of holocaust studies last year at school (its compulsory) and jews are not a race. the whole jews as a race was from hitler.
in reagrds to those who say there has been no attacks on synagogues or the like in 20 years, open up your eyes a bit. www.ajn.com.au is the australian jewish news. at least once a week there is something signifigant that is antisemitic in the western world. i think a year or so agao a synagogue in perth was burnt and nazi graffiti is not uncommon.
in regards to those who say the holocaust is jewish propaganda, shame on you, i'm actually ashamed you are a homo sapien with views like that. it just disgusts me.
gareth, if you can criticise people for viewing only 'government proagated' forms of media they can do just the same to you. you believe alot in that axisoflogic.com stuff, which is fine, just not the be all and end all for news, i've found alot of the rumours on there are totally speculative (eg. friend of a friend of a high ranking soldier in us army told me...) no names- no CONCRETE proof.

[green eyes88]

Sorry but jews are a race. people try to make them not so their dislike and hatred of them wont seem as bad....its a way of making it seem not as evil. like if i were to say black people werent a race and then when i was "racist" towards them i wouldnt actually be racist......its a common thing humans do, to shush that annoying conscience of theirs......truly sad, but truly human.

similar things were done with slaves, they werent viewed as truly human, so when people mistreated them and were racist people didnt feel as guilty about it. truly sad.

btw smart people are special. sorry you're not special, but im sure your parents think so...:)

about your first sentence. I dont think u can see judaism as a race since it really is juat a religion. The difference between judaism and christianity, for example, is that there are so little jews that i think we feel united as if we were a race. And we were always treated like we were a race (in the word anitsemetic- "semi" is the race. However, the arabs are also included in this race, however, the word has come to relate to jews only).
what u wanted to point out is that u said "ppl say being jewish is not a race so it would seem less evil". But even if judaism really isnt a race, I dont think protesting hate toward a whole religion is any better. It's just as evil...

[Bijeli_Miš]

stupid? when they go agaisnt core teaching of jesus,
how can they be the same as him? i guess you can say they are
christians, like i can say the terrorist muslims are muslims. but when
it comes down to it, they dont follow the teaching of the quran, and
the catholic church doesnt follow what jesus preached. but i guess its
stupid to say people who dont follow what jesus wanted are not
christians. :rolleyes:
ill use simple words for you....if the "muslim" terrorist do not follow
islam then they are not truly muslims...still with me? so if catholics
do not follow what jesus taught and in many key area's go agaisnt it,
they are not truly christians.....lets hope we all learned something
today! I hope you were able to follow, i made it as simple as possible.
But if you want to get more complex, Catholicism is more like a
pseudo-christianity. its similar but not quite the same.
i would advise you to learn before you speak. i have said it a million
times, i dont watch fox news often. my main new sources are european.
the only american news i watch alot of are the cbs and nbc nightly news
and msnbc.....so please before you open your mouth, know what the fuck
you are talking about. It's childish to do othewise.<br>
&nbsp;First of, don't patronise me!
I guess you've devoted your entire life to theology, which entitles you to make such "smart statements".
And I don't get it why you keep comparing it to "real Muslim" and terrorism?!
Only comparation could be that Catholics are part of Christianity just as Sunni's are part of Islam.
Next time give us a link or something, 'cuz I'm tired of this nonsense.
And pardon me but I've had religious ed. for 8 years, mister "learn before you speak".

[Bijeli_Miš]

a jew that isnt a jew, is simply a jew that doesnt see himself as jewish. That's individual. Technically, there are laws that define who is and sint jewish- it was something that has been a conflict during the years trying to define who is jewish. I learned about this in the 10th, and they decided that a jew is:
-someone born to a jewish mother (not father, unlike christianity. It's the mother because u can only know for sure that the mother is the real mother, unlike the father)
- someone who converted (following certain guidelines I'm guessing, that I'm not really familiar with. There are so many kinds of Judaism these days, that u could find ppl who would tell u very different ways of converting).

and about that strap, it is only for boys. It's called "Tfilin". I know men do this alot, ever since they're 13 and have a Bar Mitsva. But I dont know much about that. Maybe Matan knows more...i feel stupid. I dont know too much about my religion because i'm very non religious
Thanks, Matan also sent me the answer about Tfilin in a pm.

[huntjd]

your avatar brings laughter to an otherwise gloomy thread. the skater mouse is brilliant!

[bart]

some people have to admit that the powers that be, due to old school thinking that the arabs near isreal are treated the same way as the jews were in the 2nd world war... but as ever they will always have a excuse... to justify it. I think the nazis used to use the same agurment....

[berrywoman]

Sorry but jews are a race. people try to make them not so their dislike and hatred of them wont seem as bad....its a way of making it seem not as evil. like if i were to say black people werent a race and then when i was "racist" towards them i wouldnt actually be racist......its a common thing humans do, to shush that annoying conscience of theirs......truly sad, but truly human.

similar things were done with slaves, they werent viewed as truly human, so when people mistreated them and were racist people didnt feel as guilty about it. truly sad.

btw smart people are special. sorry you're not special, but im sure your parents think so...:)


my parents are dead....for all you know. Leave them out of this....

Comparing blacks to Jews is completely irrelevant!! Black is a race! Jewish is a religion. People connotate is to be a race because they feel like and are thinking back to the days when we were all one... (as green eyes has stated)--- Where the hell do you get your reasoning?? "....its a way of making it seem not as evil. like if i were to say black people werent a race and then when i was "racist" towards them i wouldnt actually be racist......" <--- thats the most stupidest thing I have heard..... ever!! Racsism is racsim not matter how you slice it... its hate!! Period!! The reason its called racism is because its hate toward a RACE!!!!! It doesn't apply towards religious beliefs..... :rolleyes: which is what Judaism is... get a clue you brainwashed child!!!

you're the disgrace to the American people.. whats sad is that people in the world actually think all of America is like you.... closed minded and judgemental...

why don't you learn to shut your trap when you should, and speak only when it pretains to you. You have no idea what its like to live in a warzone or run for your life because you have literally minutes to take cover from an incoming bomb... whether it be an Israeli bomb or one launched by Hezbollah..... we have no right to dicatate what these people are suffering from and how they should do things...

bottom line.. the situation isn't going to get any better soon over there.. and it definitely isn't about to get any safer over here if something isn't done.

[bart]

I think all these discussions should now stop its not healthly for this board

[green eyes88]

some people have to admit that the powers that be, due to old school thinking that the arabs near isreal are treated the same way as the jews were in the 2nd world war... but as ever they will always have a excuse... to justify it. I think the nazis used to use the same agurment....

if there's something that pisses me off it's when ppl say that israel is treating the arabs in israel like the natzis treated the jews during world war 2. ppl who say that obviously dont know any history and are completely ignorant.
How can they compare death camps and the death of 6,000,000 ppl to ANY government discrimination??

Last year my school had this project and we all went to Nazerat and met with an arab school, and the kids there hosted us in their homes and everything. I think it's a good idea, because it was tons of fun and we really got along well. However, the next day we had some political discussions, and that didnt go too well. Some of the arabs claimed what u said (about the nazis), and that went too far, even their teachers told them to stop saying that. Obviously they didnt know what they were talking about.
And they kept saying there was alot of discrimination, and when we asked "What we get as jews in israel that u dont??". And they had nothing to say. They are arabs that have an israeli citizenship, so they get full rights like us...

[green eyes88]

I think all these discussions should now stop its not healthly for this board

why? It got me abit upset, but it's not like I hate all the ppl I disagree with

we can all just agree to disagree.

I think it's also very imprortant to hear other thoughts other than ur own, it does open your mind abit. It has opened mine, anyways.

[berrywoman]

I think all these discussions should now stop its not healthly for this board


its public forum... deal.

[berrywoman]

some people have to admit that the powers that be, due to old school thinking that the arabs near isreal are treated the same way as the jews were in the 2nd world war... but as ever they will always have a excuse... to justify it. I think the nazis used to use the same agurment....

^ second most stupidest thing I have read today....

[bart]

why ????

[green eyes88]

because- do u even know what happenned with the nazis that u would think that?

[bart]

because- do u even know what happenned with the nazis that u would think that?

yes I do and they were treated very badly...

However, I could go and on about how the Palestians are treated.... and draw simiarlites to how they are currently being treated as we speak... but its seems some of the world chose to be blind to this.

I

[green eyes88]

please elaborate...

i really wanna see how u prove this point, since it's completely ridiculas

[berrywoman]

why ????


are they in concentration camps? Are they putting them in gas chambers and killing the women and children first? Are they being ransacked out of their homes and put to work in camps?? I haven't heard any of these reports.... besides... THAT WAS WW2!!! I am so tired of all these comparisons to WW2.... that was a completely different situtation!!!!

[bart]

No not that extreme however Ghettos are being used over there... plus people are not being treated as humans.

[green eyes88]

"not that extreme"- so how can u even compare?

There are no ghettos, no designanted ereas were all the arabs are out in unbelievable density were there are 10 ppl living in one room, living off one loaf of bread per day, and dieing of deseases. Or being shot when they try to escape. You really shouldnt compare.
look at this: http://www.ushmm.org/museum/exhibit/online/phistories/
my grandmother was in Bergen Belzen. It's described under "camps".

and u say they "arent treated like humans". Explain yourself, prove your point, you cant say something without basing it on anything.

[bart]

I will do when I have more time... but I am sure if u check some of the archive stories on the bbc website some truths will be found..

[green eyes88]

if u say so... i just cant imagine how u could come to such a conclution. It's very it's very extreme to think that. It's even too exaggerated if u wanna raise sympathy for the plestinians. Saying they're going through a similiar holocaust is a flat out lie

[bart]

I am not trying to raise sypathy.... I am just concerned that media tends to side with Isrealis.... and its a pity the people of palestine are being branded as terroists... when all they are doing is fighting to be alive....

Its a horrible postion to be, when your only option is to take the action that some people have to do... however if I had a brother of 2 years old and he was shot for just playing football. Then my sister was shot, and I was not allowed to protest agasint it because of the fear of further repression I think I would be drawn into such acts.

[MrLick]

<br>
&nbsp;First of, don't patronise me!
I guess you've devoted your entire life to theology, which entitles you to make such "smart statements".
And I don't get it why you keep comparing it to "real Muslim" and terrorism?!
Only comparation could be that Catholics are part of Christianity just as Sunni's are part of Islam.
Next time give us a link or something, 'cuz I'm tired of this nonsense.
And pardon me but I've had religious ed. for 8 years, mister "learn before you speak".

No, but i happen to be surrounded by theologist, who have spent their whole lives studying this type of stuff.

8 years eh? iv have it for 18.

[MrLick]

are they in concentration camps? Are they putting them in gas chambers and killing the women and children first? Are they being ransacked out of their homes and put to work in camps?? I haven't heard any of these reports.... besides... THAT WAS WW2!!! I am so tired of all these comparisons to WW2.... that was a completely different situtation!!!!

sadly you will never realize how much ww2 relates to today....its not a different situation at all. and people who think so are only hurting themselves.

[MrLick]

I am not trying to raise sypathy.... I am just concerned that media tends to side with Isrealis.... and its a pity the people of palestine are being branded as terroists... when all they are doing is fighting to be alive....

Its a horrible postion to be, when your only option is to take the action that some people have to do... however if I had a brother of 2 years old and he was shot for just playing football. Then my sister was shot, and I was not allowed to protest agasint it because of the fear of further repression I think I would be drawn into such acts.


what are you smoking? the media this whole time has spent almost all of its time on the few dead innocent lebaonese and attacking israel....the world media by far, specialy in europe (big surprise) are siding with lebanon. the only station otherwise would be like foxnews in america.

[Matan_18]

I am not trying to raise sypathy.... I am just concerned that media tends to side with Isrealis.... and its a pity the people of palestine are being branded as terroists... when all they are doing is fighting to be alive....

Its a horrible postion to be, when your only option is to take the action that some people have to do... however if I had a brother of 2 years old and he was shot for just playing football. Then my sister was shot, and I was not allowed to protest agasint it because of the fear of further repression I think I would be drawn into such acts.


Yes I can see what you're trying to say..
but I disagree with you!!! You cannot compare the present situation with the Palestinians to the holocaust!!! The jews were forced to die!!! Here we don't do it and will never do!!! We are not animals like the nazees!! Israel only wants to live in peace here in our country, we don't kill them one by one!! HOW CAN YOU COMPARE?!?! It's the most idiotic thing I've read in the forum ever..(I am here only 3-4 days)
If we stop trying to arrest/kill the terrorists there, we will die here in suicide bombings everyday!! I know it's hard for you to see it of couse, what can I do?

[berrywoman]

what are you smoking? the media this whole time has spent almost all of its time on the few dead innocent lebaonese and attacking israel....the world media by far, specialy in europe (big surprise) are siding with lebanon. the only station otherwise would be like foxnews in america.


what are YOU smoking!!!?? lol I haven't seen any media that sympathizes with Lebonon... actually, the numbers don't lie, so if thats bias reporting... stop watching FOX News and pick up a newspaper for once... lol

Actually.. in the tv media's defense.. CNN seems to have the most unbiased coverage I have seen.

sadly you will never realize how much ww2 relates to today....its not a different situation at all. and people who think so are only hurting themselves.

:rolleyes: simmadown little boy.. you have yet to learn. 18 years huh... you've been learning about politics since you were 1 yrs old??!! You're a miracle of modern day marvel! :laugh3:

[MrLick]

what are YOU smoking!!!?? lol I haven't seen any media that sympathizes with Lebonon... actually, the numbers don't lie, so if thats bias reporting... stop watching FOX News and pick up a newspaper for once... lol

Actually.. in the tv media's defense.. CNN seems to have the most unbiased coverage I have seen.



:rolleyes: simmadown little boy.. you have yet to learn. 18 years huh... you've been learning about politics since you were 1 yrs old??!! You're a miracle of modern day marvel! :laugh3:


Cammile i ask you for the last time, pay attention. i said i dont watch foxnews often, my main source of news is european news....get with the program.

cnn has been the MOST biased on this. good try though, but it doesnt surprise me you'd try to say that.

p.s. if you use the whole age thing, there are 70 year olds who agree with me...so if you're gonna try that then i guess it really doesnt make a difference.

[berrywoman]

I think you're the one who should pay attention...


Biased?? How?? They've been talking on both sides of the border and showing both sides of the story...... how are they unbiased??? Why don't you read AC360's blog.... tell me how its biased... lol

European news, eh lol funny YOU should watch the BBC... lol --they're more towards the liberal side!! :lol:

[MrLick]

I think you're the one who should pay attention...


Biased?? How?? They've been talking on both sides of the border and showing both sides of the story...... how are they unbiased??? Why don't you read AC360's blog.... tell me how its biased... lol

European news, eh lol funny YOU should watch the BBC... lol --they're more towards the liberal side!! :lol:

If you'd actually pay attention for once. i said you have to read from both sides and all over the world. i get my news from liberal and conservative sources and other types. from europe america and the middle east.

[berrywoman]

when did you say this??? lol :laugh3: I should pay attention!! More than half of your stuff is shite... you don't even consider the 'other sides' stories lol


and how is CNN biased.. please.. school me oh wise one... :lol:

[MrLick]

when did you say this??? lol :laugh3: I should pay attention!! More than half of your stuff is shite... you don't even consider the 'other sides' stories lol


and how is CNN biased.. please.. school me oh wise one... :lol:

i consider and listen to both sides, you cannot know the truth without doing that. its more then you do.

[berrywoman]

i consider and listen to both sides, you cannot know the truth without doing that. its more then you do.


proper English would indicate that you meant 'than'.... ;)


..........and once again Cap'n Knowitall... you would be wrong about me.. but I'm not going to kill more braincells of mine on this debate with you beacuse I think you're a nob. :kiss:

Good Day! *tips hat*

[MrLick]

proper English would indicate that you meant 'than'.... ;)


..........and once again Cap'n Knowitall... you would be wrong about me.. but I'm not going to kill more braincells of mine on this debate with you beacuse I think you're a nob. :kiss:

Good Day! *tips hat*


Hey, dont take out your anger on me. i didnt make you become ignorant.

[berrywoman]

who's angry?? :laugh4: at least I now how to write proper English!!!

[MrLick]

Who's not angry?

[berrywoman]

who can't spell??? :lol:

[MrLick]

Who acts like a child? but tries to use the age thing to their advantage?

[berrywoman]

*points at you*

[Bijeli_Miš]

No, but i happen to be surrounded by theologist, who have spent their whole lives studying this type of stuff.

8 years eh? iv have it for 18.
I don't really know what to say to you anymore, except how about you prove your statements.

[berrywoman]

^don't hold your breath.... lol waiting for him to prove statements.. pfft! You'd have a better chance of running into Chris Martin at a restaurant loo!

[MrLick]

I don't really know what to say to you anymore, except how about you prove your statements.

ok, let me go consult my sources and get back with you on this.

[berrywoman]

Bazooka Joe is off today... you might need another source.....

[Matan_18]

I see that this thread is off, wayyyyy off the topic so I suggest we close it??
ok I can't make any choises but I suggest it.. bye

[MrLick]

Bazooka Joe is off today... you might need another source.....

C'mon camille, i dont wanna use your source, that would be cheap.:stunned:

[berrywoman]

*plunk*

U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan says the strike was deliberate.... :stunned: (the strike on the UN post)

[MrLick]

He wishes. no way israel would be that stupid.

[MrLick]

I don't really know what to say to you anymore, except how about you prove your statements.

prove my statements? Ok but only since you asked;)

many core teachings of the catholic church go against the bible and what god wanted.

In comparing Roman Catholicism with the Word of God, there are many differences and contradictions. The Roman Catholic church teaches many doctrines that are in disagreement with what the Bible says. These include worship of saints or Mary, prayer to saints or Mary, the pope / papacy, justification by faith plus works, infant baptism, transubstantiation, and purgatory. While Catholics claim Scriptural support for these concepts, none of these teachings have any foundation in the clear teaching of Scripture. In fact, they all clearly contradict what the Bible declares. The most crucial of these is the Roman Catholic belief that faith in Christ alone is not enough to save a person. The official position of the Roman Catholic Church is that a person must believe in Jesus Christ AND be baptized AND receive Catholic communion AND obey the decrees of the Roman Catholic Church AND etc., etc., etc. Catholic divergence from the Bible on this most crucial of issues means that yes, Catholicism is a false religion. If a person believes what the Catholic Church officially teaches, he/she will not be saved.



At the same time, there are believers who attend Roman Catholic Churches. There are many Roman Catholics who have genuinely placed their faith in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. Catholic Christians remain in the Catholic church out of ignorance of what the Catholic church truly stands for, out of family tradition, or out of a desire to reach Catholics for Christ. However, these Catholic Christians are believers despite what the Catholic Church teaches, not because of what it teaches. To varying degrees, the Catholic church teaches the Bible and points people to Jesus Christ as the Savior. As a result, people are sometimes saved in Catholic churches (Isaiah 55:11). At the same time, the Catholic church also leads many people away from a genuine faith relationship with Christ. The Roman Catholic Church is not the church that Jesus Christ established. It is not a church that is based on the teachings of the Apostles.

http://www.gotquestions.org/catholicism.html


"Are Catholic beliefs and practices Biblical?"



Answer: The issue concerning any church and its practices is “Is this scriptural?” If a teaching is scriptural (taken in context), it should be embraced. If it is not, it should be rejected. God is a whole lot more interested in whether a church is doing His will than whether they can trace their “lineage” back to Christ’s time (Matthew 12:48-50). Jesus is very concerned that we do not change our focus from the word of God to following the traditions of men (Mark 7:7). How then does the Word of God compare with the teachings of the Roman Catholic Church? Let’s look at a few issues:



Salvation: The Roman Catholic Church teaches that one is saved by baptismal regeneration and remains saved unless he commits a sinful act that removes him from the state of sanctifying grace (theft of a large amount, failure to attend church and receive the Eucharist for an extended period of time, etc.). The Bible teaches that we are saved by grace which is received through simple faith (Ephesians 2:8-9), and that good works are the result of a change of the heart wrought in salvation (Ephesians 2:10; 2 Corinthians 5:17) and the fruit of that new life in Christ (John 15).



Eternal Security: The Roman Catholic Church teaches that one CANNOT know for certain that he is saved and on his way to heaven. 1 John 5:13 states that the letter of 1 John was written just so that one would know for certain that he is saved.



Good Works: The Roman Catholic Church states that we are saved by works (baptismal regeneration) and that we maintain our salvation by good works (receiving communion, church attendance, saying confession, etc.). The Bible states that we are saved apart from works, by grace through faith, and totally apart from works (Titus 3:5; Ephesians 2:8-9; Galatians 3:10-11; Romans 3:19-24).



Baptism: In the New Testament baptism is ALWAYS practiced after one places his faith in Christ and is not a means of salvation; it is faith in the gospel that saves (1 Corinthians 1:14-18; Romans 10:13-17). But the Roman Catholic Church teaches baptismal regeneration of infants, a practice never found in Scripture. Note: The Roman Catholic Church sometimes notes that the whole household of the Philippian jailer was baptized in Acts 16:33. But you will note how Paul answered the question of how a person is saved in Acts 16:31 and then note that Paul spoke to all of the household in verse 32 and the whole household was believing (verse 34). Thus, this passage only supports the baptism of those who have already believed, not of infants.



Prayer: The Roman Catholic Church teaches its members to not only pray to God but also to Mary and to the saints. Contrary to this, we are taught in Scripture to only pray to God (Matthew 6:9; Luke 18:1-7; etc.).



Priesthood: The Roman Catholic Church teaches that there is a distinction between the clergy and the “lay people,” whereas the New Testament teaches the priesthood of all believers (1 Peter 2:9).



Sacraments: The Roman Catholic Church teaches that we receive grace when we receive the sacraments of the church. But such teaching is nowhere found in Scripture.



Confession: The Roman Catholic Church teaches that unless we are hindered from doing so by some means beyond our control, the only way to have our sins forgiven is by confessing them to a priest. Contrary to this, scripture teaches that we can confess our sins to God for forgiveness (1 John 1:9) and to also confess our sins one to another so that we can be strengthened in our battle against sin (James 5:16).



Mary: The Roman Catholic Church teaches, among other things, that Mary is the Queen of Heaven, a perpetual virgin, and the co-redemptress who ascended into heaven. In Scripture, she is portrayed as an obedient, believing servant of God, who became the mother of Jesus. None of the other attributes mentioned by the Roman Catholic Church are given to her in scripture, and the idea of her being the co-redemptress and another mediator between God and man are not only extra-biblical (found only outside of scripture) but are also unbiblical (contrary to scripture) (Acts 4:12; 1 Timothy 2:5).



Eucharist: The question here is whether or not to take Christ’s words “this is my body” literally. As a former Catholic, I too once held to the belief that the bread and wine were actually changed into Christ’s body and blood, but upon examination of the context of those statements believe that they are not changed, but that the Eucharist is a memorial service alone.



Looking at church history, you find that there was a group called the Anabaptists who were around before Luther’s lead in the Protestant movement. It is the contention of many that there have always been those who have separated from “the church” because of its refusal to order itself according to the Bible. Sometimes those who separate are wrong, teaching heresy. But sometimes it is not those who remain in the church who are right but those who are thrown out (3 John 9-11)! Paul says that we are to separate from those who walk in error (2 Corinthians 6:14-18), either the error of ungodly living (1 Corinthians 5; 2 Thessalonians 3:6) or the error of ungodly teaching (1 Timothy 6:3-5; 2 Timothy 3:5; Acts 20:29-30; Romans 16:17). And it is the scripture that is to be the means of our choosing the right path to salvation (Acts 20:31-32; 2 Timothy 3:15).



What does Scripture say (Romans 4:3; Galatians 4:30; Acts 17:10)? That is to be our guideline. “So now, brethren, I commend you to God and to the word of His grace, which is able to build you up and give you an inheritance among all those who are sanctified” (Acts 20:32 NKJV).


"Is prayer to saints / Mary Biblical?"



Answer: The Bible nowhere instructs believers in Christ to pray to anyone other than God. Why, then, do many Catholic pray to Mary and/or pray to "saints"? Catholics view Mary and saints as "intercessors" before God. They believe that a saint, who is in Heaven, has more "direct access" to God than we do. Therefore, if a saint delivers a prayer to God, it is more effective than us praying to God directly. This concept is blatantly unbiblical. Hebrews 4:16 tells us that we (not saints) can "...approach the throne of grace with confidence..."



1 Timothy 2:5 declares, "For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus." There is no one else that can mediate with God for us. If Jesus is the only mediator, that indicates Mary and saints cannot be mediators. They cannot mediate our prayer requests to God. Further, the Bible tells us that Jesus Christ Himself is interceding for us before the Father, "Therefore He is able to save completely those who come to God through Him, because He always lives to intercede for them" (Hebrews 7:25). With Jesus Himself interceding for us, why would we need Mary or the saints to intercede for us? Who would God listen to more closely than His Son? Romans 8:26-27 describes the Holy Spirit interceding for us. With the 2nd and 3rd members of the Trinity already interceding for us before the Father in Heaven, what possible need could there be to have Mary or the saints interceding for us?



Catholics argue that praying to Mary and the saints is no different than asking someone here on earth to pray for you. Let us examine that claim. (1) The Apostle Paul asks other Christians to pray for him in Ephesians 6:19. Many Scriptures describe believers praying for one another (2 Corinthians 1:11; Ephesians 1:16; Philippians 1:19; 2 Timothy 1:3). The Bible nowhere mentions anyone asking for someone in Heaven to pray for them. The Bible nowhere describes anyone in Heaven praying for anyone on earth. (2) The Bible gives absolutely no indication that Mary or the saints can hear our prayers. Mary and the saints are not omniscient. How could they possibly hear the prayers of millions of people? Whenever the Bible mentions praying to or speaking with the dead, it is in the context of sorcery, witchcraft, and divination - activities the Bible strongly condemns (Leviticus 20:27; Deuteronomy 18:10-13). The one instance when a "saint" is spoken to, Samuel in 1 Samuel 28:7-19, Samuel was not exactly happy to be disturbed. It is plainly clear that praying to Mary or the saints is completely different from asking someone here on earth to pray for you. One has a strong Biblical basis, the other has no Biblical basis whatsoever.


There is absolutely no basis or need to pray to anyone other than God alone. Only God can hear our prayers. Only God can answer our prayers. No one in Heaven has any greater access to God's throne that we do through prayer, Let us then come directly to God through Jesus' work on the cross of Calvary, not only for salvation, but also for our needs as well (Hebrews 4:14).

[MrLick]

I can post more if you want?

[Mojo Pin]

I assume you arent catholic? I'm evangelic not very religious though but i was told that according to the bible we arent suppose to pray or worship images or such like catholic religion do so that was enver clear for me but that post above was interesting. But i do respect other religions and its all about faith so i have no problem with that but there are just so many questions floating around and nothing certain hmm

[MrLick]

if you want to be catholic be catholic, its fine with me. but i hate when people call a religion like that christian when it goes agaisnt the core teachings of christianity and what jesus taught. just like these muslims terrorist views go agaisnt what true islam is and what the quran teaches. athough in my beliefs islam is a false religion, i do realize the terrorist arent really following it.

[Mojo Pin]

The term christian means that you believe in Jesus Christ , if you do then you're a christian even if you're catholic, protestant, or whatever. In the end we all will die and religion wont save us but our faith ( if you belioeve in christ that is) . I dont think any other religion is like everyone wants to put it here as 'evil' ,religion is suppsoed to be something spiritual and sacred and make you feel closer to god and be a better person so i dont think any religion is something bad or fake, but i do believe that people are using religion to manipulate and kill others in the name of their god which is terrible and a shame and this comes from centuries ago among christian religion as well.