FOX news guy slags off Chris Martin...

[berrywoman]

this guy just posted this on the official... I think we all need to send this guy, John Gibson, hate mail... however today's rant isnt on the site yet... I say we wait.. and then send the hate!!!! :sneaky:



http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,156986,00.html

So far, the dialogue hasn't been updated for what this guy said today. Hopefully they'll release it soon.

Let me introduce myself.

I like Coldplay, but I probably wouldn't join a Coldplay forum. However, what I saw on Fox News' show (don't ask me why i was watching fox) The Big Story w/ John Gibson, made me sign up for this to make sure you all see what I saw. Chris Martin was quoted saying that stockholders are the great evil of this country. I would have said the same thing if it was them who were at least mostly at fault for depriving me of well-deserved money. However, it was just a few comments, not like he's got an agenda against all shareholders. It's not a news story, maybe something that could go on the CNN headline news ticker, maybe.

John Gibson went off on a two minute rant about how shareholders are the reason behind the success of the economy and all the shit we already learned in high school economics class, but the whole time he was slandering Chris so hard that I believe the only way for Chris to settle it is by challenging John to a duel. How a major NEWS show can get away with slandering someone viciously for 2 minutes based on a non-newsworthy story, is beyond my belief. Plus he topped it off by saying the CD retails for $20 and said that because of this "incident", no one will buy it.

Fox News, Fear and Maliced

[duran]

whata PRICK

[berrywoman]

here's the article text.... :rolleyes:


A Rush of Blood to the Head?
Thursday, May 19, 2005
By John Gibson

This is a little monologue Thursday on how good it is to be rich. And maybe how good it is to be young, rich and famous.

Take the singer Chris Martin (search) from the pop music band Coldplay (search). He's also the husband of Gwyneth Paltrow — everybody's idea of perfect beauty these days — and the father of the baby Paltrow just gave birth to, the darling little Apple.

So Chris Martin and his band have a new record coming out, and he's getting pressure from the company to deliver the thing on time. And when it turned out to be late, the company's stock price went down. That caused even more screaming and more pressure on the gentle psyches of the otherwise pampered rock band.

So Chris Martin said — get this — "Shareholders are the greatest evil on Earth."

Now you youngish people who are pouring your salary into 401(k) (search) plans so you can take care of yourself in your old age, and depending on your status as a shareholder in stocks or mutual funds or bond funds or real estate investment trusts — your singing idol says you are the "greatest evil on Earth."


Think he's not serious? Sure, he is. He's talking about shareholders demanding profits from oil companies, from financial institutions, from wood products companies, from power companies. All of which he is certain, evidently, cause further damage to the planet where his little Apple is going to grow up.

Shareholders are bad because they want and demand profit, and they put pressure on managers and the managers go put pressure on the guy drilling for oil or the guy trying to make another rock 'n' roll hit.

Evil, evil, evil, evil shareholders. All of you — evil.

It's nice not to worry about your stock and mutual fund accounts, right? Your accountant calls every few days to say the record company has sent along another few million. Enjoy life. Don't feel the pressure of shareholders. Just enjoy life and tell all your fans who are shareholders that they are scum.

Oh sorry, not scum. Evil.

Coldplay's new record retails for about $20. Wanna give him some of your money now?

I didn't think so.

That's My Word.

Watch John Gibson weekdays at 5 p.m. ET on "The Big Story" and send your comments to: myword@foxnews.com

[berrywoman]

we should all flood his email box.... he;s an asshole!!

[ALR]

Where is Chris' quote from? I'm deeply suspicious of a talking head who refuses to give any source whilst dissing someone.

[ALR]

OK, so Gibson's not really slagging Chris (at least not in the text, I didn't see the show). He's saying (in a needlessly venomous way :rolleyes: go figure ) that Chris said something a bit too all-encompassing. I mean, not everyone who is a shareholder is evil. I think what Chris meant was that the capitalistic system is evil. I think Chris shouldn't have singled out one group of participants in said system. But Chris was under a lot of pressure at this point, and I wouldn't be surprised if he said it with a wink, so to speak.
Gibson is doing what most jerks do, which is take one comment and use it as a basis to call someone out in a snide and unnecessary way.

[MrLick]

im sorry but i think what chris said was dumb and unwise. stockholders are NOT evil, there are far more evil things in the world, goverments would be a prime example.

I love coldplay, but chris is far too wrong on this.

[*Justine*]

Fox News sucks.

[ALR]

Fox News sucks.


Word up, yo

[MrLick]

I dont think Fox is too bad. they did go after chris too hard and much but all in all fox news is a good station.

[berrywoman]

im sorry but i think what chris said was dumb and unwise. stockholders are NOT evil, there are far more evil things in the world, goverments would be a prime example.

I love coldplay, but chris is far too wrong on this.

so you agree that the entire future of EMI depends on Coldplay being multi billion dollar sellers again??


come on!! Chris was obviously being facetious in these comments!!! He's sarcastic!! But to a certain extent I have to agree with him for which the context of his quote was said.

The pressures of 'making or breaking EMI' and the fact the band (or artists in general) care more about the entegrity of their record than meeting deadlines and making shareholders money. Where does this guy get off saying that shareholdlers make the economy?? Yea they do.. in a way.. but a majority of these 'shareholding' execs dont give a crap about the was trade laws are passed... farmers practically being raped of their crops... Coldplay and MTF are DOING something about it..

this guy is a shmuck..and I am going to send an email.. I encourage you all to do the same!

viva la revolution!!! :laugh3:

[berrywoman]

Fox News sucks.


Word up, yo



ditto!!

[MrLick]

oh, I thought Chris was being serious! well was he joking about the shareholders being evil?

[ALR]

viva la revolution!!! :laugh3:

Ha! You commie! :P :D

I think Chris either mispoke or was being sarcastic, Gibson jumped on him, which was jerky, but not that big of a deal.

[berrywoman]

no they are evil... not not the evil of the world!!!! lol


all the shirts care about is the $$$ at the expense of the artists artistic expression..... lets say Coldplay had put out the album in March... and it wasnt to the bands liking.. would we be happy??

[ALR]

oh, I thought Chris was being serious! well was he joking about the shareholders being evil?

That makes the most sense.

[MrLick]

no they are evil... not not the evil of the world!!!! lol


all the shirts care about is the $$$ at the expense of the artists artistic expression..... lets say Coldplay had put out the album in March... and it wasnt to the bands liking.. would we be happy??

I dont get how shareholders are evil though. it confuses me. :stunned: anyways gibson likes to rag on celebs alot. I dont like what he said about chris and all, but i agree with many other things he has said.

[berrywoman]

maybe this will explain it a bit better....

He has been a tireless campaigner against the trade rules that govern the lives of farmers in the Third World. He has also attacked the media, public schools and even poked fun at his wife's pregnancy.

Now Chris Martin, lead singer of the pop group Coldplay, has turned his anger on shareholders and profits. And his chosen target is EMI, the company that releases his records.

In a politically charged attack that has been welcomed by anti-globalisation campaigners, Martin said that he did not care that the corporation's profits might be dented by the delay in recording Coldplay's third album.

Speaking to the media in New York, Martin - who is married to the American actress Gwyneth Paltrow - said: "I don't really care about EMI. I'm not really concerned about that. I think shareholders are the greatest evil of this modern world."

Martin said the album, the group's first in three years, was delayed because the group felt their first eight months of recording sessions had produced songs that lacked the "spark" of earlier hits such as "Yellow," "Clocks" and "The Scientist."

"It's very strange for us that we spent 18 months in the studio just trying to make songs that make us feel a certain way and then suddenly become part of this corporate machine."

On Monday, the band recorded for the cable channel VH1 and Martin told the audience: "Deadlines mean nothing to us. We'll sink the whole company [EMI] if we have to."

In February, the EMI share price fell after the company warned that its profits would be dented by the delay in releasing the album, now entitled X&Y and due for release on 7 June. Sales of the new album and revenue from the subsequent two-month tour of North America in the summer are expected to play a role in determining EMI's profits.

Martin's views will be seen by many as a logical extension of the work done by him and the group in support of Oxfam's Make Trade Fair campaign, which is aimed at helping farmers and crop growers in the Third World. Oxfam said it did not wish to comment on his remarks.

A spokesman for Globalise Resistance, one of the leading anti-globalisation groups, said: "His comments reflect the fact that everyone has to work for someone else; everyone is a slave to shareholders and he is being exploited just like everyone else. He will have created more money for EMI than they will ever have created for him in returnHe said Coldplay fans should respond by downloading the band's music for free from unauthorised file-sharing websites.

While many recording artists will sympathise with Martin, few have been tempted to bite the hand that feeds them in such a public fashion. Steve Randall, guitarist with dance collective Faithless, told The Independent: "While I don't expect anyone to feel sympathy for pop stars tied to lucrative record deals, he has raised a very significant broader truth, which is that capitalism and the profit motive are not the best ways to organise the world."

EMI, the world's third-largest record company has issued a statement suggesting it is relaxed about his opinions: "We don't expect or want our rock stars to be stockbrokers."

The group was formed in 1998 and has become hugely popular in the US. Their first album, Parachutes, sold nearly 6 million albums, while their second, A Rush of Blood to the Head, sold more than 11 million.

Martin on...

* ...celebrity: "Fame isn't all it is cracked up to be. Everything is subservient to celebrity. Great things get ignored because they're not famous but people can tell you who's dating who."

* ...Third World poverty: "I'm a father who travels a lot and has seen how rich nations exploit poorer ones through crazy trade law and huge debt."

* ...Gwyneth Paltrow: "This is all very weird because she's a big Hollywood star and I'm just the bloke from Coldplay."

http://www.coldplaying.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=600

:) I particularly find interesting the line that follows the bold... :stunned: I am confused now... but I don't think Chris said that,, but the guy from Globalise Resistance...[/url]

[MrLick]

your very smart, thank you for helping me understand. :) :)

[berrywoman]

God.. I feel old.. :embarrased: :cry:

:laugh3:

[MrLick]

lol your not old. 44 is old.

[berrywoman]

:embarrased: :cry: :cry: :cry: not funny....

[cheers2u]

it's "faux news"... we should expect stories to be misconstrued in their favor.

[MrLick]

as every news agencies does. cnn, fox, msnbc all spin the news to their favor. the media sucks.

[MrLick]

:embarrased: :cry: :cry: :cry: not funny....

im serious 29 is not old at all.

[berrywoman]

as every news agencies does. cnn, fox, msnbc all spin the news to their favor. the media sucks.


no no no ... the gov't that controls the American media sucks.... so much for feedom of the press and freedom of speech!!! :lol:

[MrLick]

na, the goverment doesnt control it, not as much as the rest ofthe world.

[cheers2u]

^ ...of course the government controls the media.

[MrLick]

But all goverments Do. But with fox its pro republican and cnn is pro democrat.

[berrywoman]

But all goverments Do. But with fox its pro republican and cnn is pro democrat.



no no no!!! THE PRESIDENT!!!! his government.. he doesnt care about the people... people my ass!! lol

You'll see.... once you start to vote.. you'll see the government for what it really is.. a popularity contest.. who wants to control everything!! Mainly its republicans... lol but any politician only looks after themselves....

but back to topic.. yes the government controls the media... ALL of it!

(psst everyone gets their news from one source.... the Associated Press)

[cheers2u]

^what did you mean by the rest of the world being in control?

[berrywoman]

I didnt..... :stunned:

[cheers2u]

na, the goverment doesnt control it, not as much as the rest ofthe world.

^sorry, i was referring to mrcool001's comment.

[berrywoman]

OooooooOOh!! hehheheh :blush:

[cheers2u]

^ you're just very quick to respond, or it could also be b/c of my slow connection...ha ha.

[berrywoman]

:embarrased: I didnt get to 14000 over night you know!!! lol My connection is super fast!! :P

[musicman]

no no no :angry: i think (and wish) that chris was serious about that
maybe not all shareholders but capitalism surely is pure evil, i mean i deal with the consecuences everyday living in a third world country... and that's what is so great about Chris, he realises about the situation and actually does something about it, maybe it's hard for some of you to understand, but rich countries really explote poorer ones... man, if only you could see true poverty and really exploted-fucked up-underpayed farmers... if you don't believe me just come to my country, i can show you this if you want to...

[berrywoman]

^ no one is saying that Chris was wrong.. or that he was talking bollocks or that it was all a joke. I just think his comment was taken too literal. Surely there are greater evils... but I think that second article I posted sums it up all nicely.

:)

[gentleparachute]

I think Chris did mean what he said, that shareholders are evil. He just needs to qualify what type of shareholders he means...
I think he was referring to those corporate evil types with loads of money, who just invest in something to earn profit - not us small-timers who invest our life savings in retirement funds or the stockmarket. Speaking or earnings, of course everybody needs to make a profit in order to survive but these big-time shareholders don't care about the welfare of the thing/people they invest in, they'll just make money where it is to be made, no matter how much they trample on the little people or how much they damage the thing it is they are investing in...

A prime example would be the recent take over of the UK soccer club Manchester United by Malcolm Glazer (of the Tampa Bay Bucaneers fame). This guy just arm-twisted his way into becoming the biggest shareholder regardless of the vehement opposition of the fans. He managed it also because of another "evil" pair of shareholders who care natta about ManU or what it means to football... John Magnier & JP Magmanus- they sold their shares in the company coz the price offered by Glazer was too good. They didn't care at all that the company would then go into debt because Glazer didn't have the actual money to pay and had to finance the takeover via loans (aka "finance companies")

It think Chris was referring to this kind of conglomerate shareholder(s) in EMI as well... I mean for such a big company EMI surely must be owned by a big shareholder that can apply a lot of pressure on it to perform up to the mark. I'm sure it isn't owned by hoardes of music lovers like us who would wait for good music.

Sometimes though I do think it's stupid that these big shareholders don't know the "product" (aka Coldplay in this case) they have invested in... I mean sure, bands may delay their albums and still produce bad music but I think if you're gonna invest in EMI (and one of their major artistes is Coldplay), then u should at least know to some extent what Coldplay are all about, and know well enough that this band knows its stuff and trust it to do the right thing when it comes to their music and not screw it right?

Sometimes I swear these people don't f*cking hell know what they're doing... :rolleyes: As Chris would say, they should just "f*ck off..." and leave the world in peace... It sure could be a better place without them.

Does all this make any sense?

[bart]

this guy just posted this on the official... I think we all need to send this guy, John Gibson, hate mail... however today's rant isnt on the site yet... I say we wait.. and then send the hate!!!! :sneaky:



http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,156986,00.html

So far, the dialogue hasn't been updated for what this guy said today. Hopefully they'll release it soon.

Let me introduce myself.

I like Coldplay, but I probably wouldn't join a Coldplay forum. However, what I saw on Fox News' show (don't ask me why i was watching fox) The Big Story w/ John Gibson, made me sign up for this to make sure you all see what I saw. Chris Martin was quoted saying that stockholders are the great evil of this country. I would have said the same thing if it was them who were at least mostly at fault for depriving me of well-deserved money. However, it was just a few comments, not like he's got an agenda against all shareholders. It's not a news story, maybe something that could go on the CNN headline news ticker, maybe.

John Gibson went off on a two minute rant about how shareholders are the reason behind the success of the economy and all the shit we already learned in high school economics class, but the whole time he was slandering Chris so hard that I believe the only way for Chris to settle it is by challenging John to a duel. How a major NEWS show can get away with slandering someone viciously for 2 minutes based on a non-newsworthy story, is beyond my belief. Plus he topped it off by saying the CD retails for $20 and said that because of this "incident", no one will buy it.

Fox News, Fear and Maliced

I guess they would do, with his anti war stance this channel should be banned

[hainrs]

Gibson hit the nail on the head and as always his wisdom shines forth. Fuck Chris Martin and his hypocrisy and his Thom Yorke complex.

[windmann2]

Gibson hit the nail on the head and as always his wisdom shines forth. Fuck Chris Martin and his hypocrisy and his Thom Yorke complex.

Mr. Tool...Yeah that's right, because Chris Martin decides to keep the prices on CD's across the board high and on average about 15US even though it costs less than a dollar to produce each CD...Yeah it's Chris doing that, not the damned record companies and their larger multi-national conglom bosses keeping the prices high right...No wrong, Gibson's dead wrong and your just a little moronic sheep following your leaders command...Gibson's commentary the piece of crap that he slapped together has no substance or bite b***h ,like you punk another ill informed fool...now get your hack right wing a** off the boards...

[badlydrawngirl]

Fox News sucks.


exactly
who gives a shit what they think?
some perspective here people!

[timeo]

Fox News is and has always been fanatical right-wing drivel. How is this news? That news network is like a tabloid with a Republican slant. Who cares what the dude has to say, in the end it's just hastily written shit that doesn't deserve our time. It's not really that big of a thing.

[windmann2]

Fox News sucks.


exactly
who gives a shit what they think?
some perspective here people!

I could care less, I know Fox News is a bunch of right wing hacks...But a lot of people don't, especially in the red states of the good ole USA. They take what Fox News says as "News"...Get it, you have to attack a cancer at it's source and if you think FN didn't have an affect on the 2004 presideantal election you're kidding yourself...When you attack them, they will attack back or front like they know as in the attack on Chris, but in the end these right wingers don't have a leg to stand on when you look at the details of the issues.

[MrLick]

But all goverments Do. But with fox its pro republican and cnn is pro democrat.



no no no!!! THE PRESIDENT!!!! his government.. he doesnt care about the people... people my ass!! lol

You'll see.... once you start to vote.. you'll see the government for what it really is.. a popularity contest.. who wants to control everything!! Mainly its republicans... lol but any politician only looks after themselves....

but back to topic.. yes the government controls the media... ALL of it!

(psst everyone gets their news from one source.... the Associated Press)

no no no, the president does care about the people. and the president doesnt control the media, well not all of it. because most of it is agaisnt bush, cnn, cbs, nbc all are very anti-bush.

[MrLick]

na, the goverment doesnt control it, not as much as the rest ofthe world.

^sorry, i was referring to mrcool001's comment.

there are many more goverments with more control on teh media then in the u.s.

[timeo]

no no no, the president does care about the people. and the president doesnt control the media, well not all of it. because most of it is agaisnt bush, cnn, cbs, nbc all are very anti-bush.

..................

[MrLick]

Fox News is and has always been fanatical right-wing drivel. How is this news? That news network is like a tabloid with a Republican slant. Who cares what the dude has to say, in the end it's just hastily written shit that doesn't deserve our time. It's not really that big of a thing.

umm so its not ok for fox to lean right? I mean the left has cnn, nbc and cbs. we have on news station that leans right. crying out loud!

[MrLick]

no no no, the president does care about the people. and the president doesnt control the media, well not all of it. because most of it is agaisnt bush, cnn, cbs, nbc all are very anti-bush.

..................


???????????????????

[windmann2]

But all goverments Do. But with fox its pro republican and cnn is pro democrat.



no no no!!! THE PRESIDENT!!!! his government.. he doesnt care about the people... people my ass!! lol

You'll see.... once you start to vote.. you'll see the government for what it really is.. a popularity contest.. who wants to control everything!! Mainly its republicans... lol but any politician only looks after themselves....

but back to topic.. yes the government controls the media... ALL of it!

(psst everyone gets their news from one source.... the Associated Press)

no no no, the president does care about the people. and the president doesnt control the media, well not all of it. because most of it is agaisnt bush, cnn, cbs, nbc all are very anti-bush.

I think we've found someone who subscribes to Fox News i.e. watches it an believes the garbage they spew...Are you kidding dude, CNN, CBS, and NBC are all anti-bush, give me a break...Yes the truth hurts when the former White House Counsel Alberto Gonzales now the USAG rewrites the Geneva Conventions so the US can torture people in Afghanistan and Iraq routinely amongst so many other things, that this the worst presidental administration in the history of the US has done...and on and on...there's time my young friend...get informed and turn off Fox News...nytimes.com is good place to start to get informed, read and read some more

[MrLick]

But all goverments Do. But with fox its pro republican and cnn is pro democrat.



no no no!!! THE PRESIDENT!!!! his government.. he doesnt care about the people... people my ass!! lol

You'll see.... once you start to vote.. you'll see the government for what it really is.. a popularity contest.. who wants to control everything!! Mainly its republicans... lol but any politician only looks after themselves....

but back to topic.. yes the government controls the media... ALL of it!

(psst everyone gets their news from one source.... the Associated Press)

no no no, the president does care about the people. and the president doesnt control the media, well not all of it. because most of it is agaisnt bush, cnn, cbs, nbc all are very anti-bush.

I think we've found someone who subscribes to Fox News i.e. watches it an believes the garbage they spew...Are you kidding dude, CNN, CBS, and NBC are all anti-bush, give me a break...Yes the truth hurts when the former White House Counsel Alberto Gonzales now the USAG rewrites the Geneva Conventions so the US can torture people in Afghanistan and Iraq routinely amongst so many other things, that this the worst presidental administration in the history of the US has done...and on and on...there's time my young friend...get informed and turn off Fox News...nytimes.com is good place to start to get informed, read and read some more

I watch fox, but i watch msnbc, cbs and other too, i read foxnews.com along with bbcnews.com and aljazeera.net.

you cant rely on one source of information, you must have many as i do. bush is doing a good job and is a good man. people complain about the right having one news station! jeeze the left has far more. not to mention 60 mintues of bush hating, i mean 60 minutes.

[timeo]

umm so its not ok for fox to lean right? I mean the left has cnn, nbc and cbs. we have on news station that leans right. crying out loud!

Ha, I've always thought that the day when facts and truth gets labelled as anti-Bush or part of a vast left-wing conspiracy will be the day that America's gone to shit, and fuck me, but it looks like that's happened already. NBC, CNN, and CBS aren't left wing at ALL. If you want to see a left-wing outlet, come to Canada and watch CityTV or something, and you'll get a readjustment of point of views. In fact, NBC, CNN and CBS are RIGHT WING in all honesty. There's little questioning of Bush's actions, and their inability to demonstrate the real human tragedy of the Iraq war just speaks volumes about how they cover up the dirty shit that Bush does. Thousands of civilians dead? Hundreds of soldiers dead? Whatever, we'll just show the blown up truck instead, we don't want to sensationalise war!!! :rolleyes:

[musicman]

But all goverments Do. But with fox its pro republican and cnn is pro democrat.



no no no!!! THE PRESIDENT!!!! his government.. he doesnt care about the people... people my ass!! lol

You'll see.... once you start to vote.. you'll see the government for what it really is.. a popularity contest.. who wants to control everything!! Mainly its republicans... lol but any politician only looks after themselves....

but back to topic.. yes the government controls the media... ALL of it!

(psst everyone gets their news from one source.... the Associated Press)

no no no, the president does care about the people. and the president doesnt control the media, well not all of it. because most of it is agaisnt bush, cnn, cbs, nbc all are very anti-bush.

I think we've found someone who subscribes to Fox News i.e. watches it an believes the garbage they spew...Are you kidding dude, CNN, CBS, and NBC are all anti-bush, give me a break...Yes the truth hurts when the former White House Counsel Alberto Gonzales now the USAG rewrites the Geneva Conventions so the US can torture people in Afghanistan and Iraq routinely amongst so many other things, that this the worst presidental administration in the history of the US has done...and on and on...there's time my young friend...get informed and turn off Fox News...nytimes.com is good place to start to get informed, read and read some more

I watch fox, but i watch msnbc, cbs and other too, i read foxnews.com along with bbcnews.com and aljazeera.net.

you cant rely on one source of information, you must have many as i do. bush is doing a good job and is a good man. people complain about the right having one news station! jeeze the left has far more. not to mention 60 mintues of bush hating, i mean 60 minutes.

man... i think you misunderstand the whole coldplay ideology :/
i guess you didn't hear chris on the 2004 grammys...

[badlydrawngirl]

i think you should all watch channel 4 news with jon snow

[berrywoman]

But all goverments Do. But with fox its pro republican and cnn is pro democrat.



no no no!!! THE PRESIDENT!!!! his government.. he doesnt care about the people... people my ass!! lol

You'll see.... once you start to vote.. you'll see the government for what it really is.. a popularity contest.. who wants to control everything!! Mainly its republicans... lol but any politician only looks after themselves....

but back to topic.. yes the government controls the media... ALL of it!

(psst everyone gets their news from one source.... the Associated Press)

no no no, the president does care about the people. and the president doesnt control the media, well not all of it. because most of it is agaisnt bush, cnn, cbs, nbc all are very anti-bush.

*slaps forehead* duuuuuuuuuude...

the president of the United States cares only about himself and how much money his daddy makes with oil deals he makes from the Saudis.. but anyhoo!!!!!!!!!!!!!

this is about this idiot guy slagging off Chris and OUR generation!!!! This infuriates me, where does he get off talking like this...

[MrLick]

anyways i dont buy that for one second. the president at least bush cares about other people, and america. he's a good man.

anyways its very funny to say cnn and cbs are not left wing. thank you i needed a good laugh today :lol:

everyonce and a while they will say a good thing about bushy but almost all the time its negative crap, specialy 60 minutes, they really need to stop attacking bush, i havent heard hardly anything good about him on that show. its a fact of life cnn and cbs lean left, fox leans right. if you are not calling cnn and cbs leftwing then foxnews does not lean right.

[berrywoman]

its not your fault mrcool.. wait til he reinstates the draft and he send you over to some 3rd world country to fight under false pretenses.. you're young yet.. you'll see. He cheated his way into the white house in 2000, and he's a liar. Its not about the news being bias or not.. its about the Associated Press being 'monitored' by the government, which is run by who?? Yes the Cabinet and Congress... but who hold the majority.. yes, the Republicans... in bed with the President. :)

end of my Politics lesson.. now e-mail that fool and diss him for dissing our generation!! :)

[MrLick]

I wont complain if im drafted, but i'd be willing to bet my life he wouldnt do the draft unless we entered a huge war like a world war. I'd glady serve my country, iwould serve in iraq if asked to. but they wouldnt want me in the army, when i play paintball i shoot my own team most the time :o Lets agree to disagree.

[musicman]

i told you, you won't understand the truth until you go to a 3rd world country and see real poverty and the real cause of it... by the way, cnn is a brainwash machine

[berrywoman]

I wont complain if im drafted, but i'd be willing to bet my life he wouldnt do the draft unless we entered a huge war like a world war. I'd glady serve my country, iwould serve in iraq if asked to. but they wouldnt want me in the army, when i play paintball i shoot my own team most the time :o Lets agree to disagree.



trust me when I tell you.. the draft isnt such a far fetched idea. The military is at an all time low for recruitments... my little brother just signed up for the Marines.. and I'm scared shitless for him. My dad was drafted in 69 for Vietnam... and he wasnt even a citizen of this country. He too believed in this country.. and what it stood for. But he told me had he known then what he knows now about the military and the government. he would have never registered. (well back then it was mandatory) but, I'll drop the subject and agree to disagree.. lol

now send that FOX fool guy an e-mail and tell him that Generation X will not be bullied!!!!! :sneaky:

[EasyToPlease]

i think you should all watch channel 4 news with jon snow


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Good idea.... :D

[windmann2]

i told you, you won't understand the truth until you go to a 3rd world country and see real poverty and the real cause of it... by the way, cnn is a brainwash machine

dude Anderson Cooper rocks, really and he likes Coldplay...Anderson Cooper 360 is the best show at that damn station...and it's absolutely right what you said about being to a third world country I've been and I know, but until you've been to a third world country seen in person the way those people live who's fate is decided by the United States and EU's policies then you'll never understand the whole picture...

[MrLick]

i dont think being in a 3rd world country will change my beliefs, it hasnt for many of the people i know who have been.

[MrLick]

I wont complain if im drafted, but i'd be willing to bet my life he wouldnt do the draft unless we entered a huge war like a world war. I'd glady serve my country, iwould serve in iraq if asked to. but they wouldnt want me in the army, when i play paintball i shoot my own team most the time :o Lets agree to disagree.



trust me when I tell you.. the draft isnt such a far fetched idea. The military is at an all time low for recruitments... my little brother just signed up for the Marines.. and I'm scared shitless for him. My dad was drafted in 69 for Vietnam... and he wasnt even a citizen of this country. He too believed in this country.. and what it stood for. But he told me had he known then what he knows now about the military and the government. he would have never registered. (well back then it was mandatory) but, I'll drop the subject and agree to disagree.. lol

now send that FOX fool guy an e-mail and tell him that Generation X will not be bullied!!!!! :sneaky:
.

If your right and they bring back the draft i'd glady serve, But the people who would serve with me wouldnt be so happy :wink3: im serious if i was in a war i would shoot my own people on accident.

[windmann2]

[/quote]I think we've found someone who subscribes to Fox News i.e. watches it an believes the garbage they spew...Are you kidding dude, CNN, CBS, and NBC are all anti-bush, give me a break...Yes the truth hurts when the former White House Counsel Alberto Gonzales now the USAG rewrites the Geneva Conventions so the US can torture people in Afghanistan and Iraq routinely amongst so many other things, that this the worst presidental administration in the history of the US has done...and on and on...there's time my young friend...get informed and turn off Fox News...nytimes.com is good place to start to get informed, read and read some more[/quote]I watch fox, but i watch msnbc, cbs and other too, i read foxnews.com along with bbcnews.com and aljazeera.net.

you cant rely on one source of information, you must have many as i do. bush is doing a good job and is a good man. people complain about the right having one news station! jeeze the left has far more. not to mention 60 mintues of bush hating, i mean 60 minutes.[/quote]

in regards to news in the US and our effect and place in the world the nytimes.com should be your first source my friend...unbiased straight up reporting...not hacks like o'reilly, hannity and the rest of'em...

Name one good Bill (example: No Child Left Behind, the Tax Cuts for the wealthiest 1% of US Society, Medicare Drug Benefits Bill, etc.) Dubya has signed into law that has fulfilled it's potential as intended by helping all within society...guess what son, you can't...all of his Dubya's bills and proposals have been utter failures and his social security plan the worst of them all will not see the light of day as it shouldn't...Bush doesn't care about you at all Mr. Cool, he and Karl Rove only care about the special interest groups (the thieves at Haliburton being one, Enron the other, two great companies by the way) who donated to his whack reelection campaign...get informed...

[berrywoman]

windmann2, where have you been all my life!!! :laugh3: That was soooo on point, cheers!

[MrLick]

ny times your kidding right? that is a biased newspaper, bbcnews.com is the best and fairest. ny times if leftleaning, its well known for that too.

i dont know much about the social security plan, but dont you get to pick to invest or do it the other way? From what ive heard you get to chose, and choosing is good. if thats correct.

im very informed i spend alot of time reading newspapers online and watching news and political shows, and from what ive seen from both sides im going on the side of Bush, he's a good man doing a good job. the democrats are the one who dont give a damn about people like me. most of bush's policies are good and benifiting the american people, specialy the middle class, ive seen his tax cuts working for my family.

[berrywoman]

there you said it yourself.. the bbc... they are more reliable because they arent in the US!!! lol I watch bbc all the time just to get my news... and my local news as well.. but see what we have to do to get real news... we watch and it shows the US in a different light for....we feel the need to get our news from another country. For so many Americans to that... you gotta admit somethings wrong...

[MrLick]

Bbc is the best one in the whole world, lol. our news does suck but that is true for most the world. anyways Fox is very biased but since im a republican i like it, lol. It shouldnt be but thats how it is.

[windmann2]

ny times your kidding right? that is a biased newspaper, bbcnews.com is the best and fairest. ny times if leftleaning, its well known for that too.

i dont know much about the social security plan, but dont you get to pick to invest or do it the other way? From what ive heard you get to chose, and choosing is good. if thats correct.

im very informed i spend alot of time reading newspapers online and watching news and political shows, and from what ive seen from both sides im going on the side of Bush, he's a good man doing a good job. the democrats are the one who dont give a damn about people like me.

kid you is straight up trippin...ok ok since bush seems to know best about all things pertaining to the world and the persons within it and you being such a staunch supporter of his you must now agree for yourself and your future family members to never use or have applied to your persons any medical procedures or techniques that are discoverd through Stem Cell research such as cures for cancer, diabetes, Parkinsons, MS, etc. etc. Why you ask, because your man Mr. Bush and the religioius right are against Stem Cell research in all it's forms and as of today Dubya would veto (not allow) any bill that would allow for the larger expansion of Stem Cell research in general...Of course Nancy Reagan is very much for Stem Cell research as is Bill Frist the Senate Republican Majority leader (a doctor) both Republicans but hey Dubya knows everyting right he's a good man, while a stupid ill informed one... a guy who can't even speak an entire sentence in his too few press conferences without tripping over his own tongue...mr. cool your man is a poser with no substance, nothing more...get a clue

[berrywoman]

did you join my e-mail revolution or not.... :embarrased:

[windmann2]

windmann2, where have you been all my life!!! :laugh3: That was soooo on point, cheers!

i'll give an amen to that, word :D

[windmann2]

did you join my e-mail revolution or not.... :embarrased:

what's da email revolution???

[berrywoman]

did you join my e-mail revolution or not.... :embarrased:

what's da email revolution???

in the beginning of the thread... it says to email your comments on that fools commentary from last night. myword@foxnews.com

[MrLick]

"kid you is straight up trippin..."

Not Kid


"ok ok since bush seems to know best about all things pertaining to the world and the persons within it and you being such a staunch supporter of his you must now agree for yourself and your future family members to never use or have applied to your persons any medical procedures or techniques that are discoverd through Stem Cell research such as cures for cancer, diabetes, Parkinsons, MS, etc. etc."

I would never, NEVER take any meds that came from stem cells, il be on my death bed and if it was the only cure i'd refuse it, taking one life to save another is well wrong. If my son was dying and the only cure was from stem cell well then he'd die. i mean what if we find out newborn babies make chemicals that can cure cancer, kill millions of newborns to save cancer victims?


" Why you ask, because your man Mr. Bush and the religioius right are against Stem Cell research in all it's forms and as of today Dubya would veto (not allow) any bill that would allow for the larger expansion of Stem Cell research in general"

thats a good thing, destroying life is wrong.


"...Of course Nancy Reagan is very much for Stem Cell research as is Bill Frist the Senate Republican Majority leader (a doctor) both Republicans but hey Dubya knows everyting right he's a good man,"

Indeed he is, for not supporting the killing of life.

"while a stupid ill informed one... a guy who can't even speak an entire sentence in his too few press conferences without tripping over his own tongue...mr. cool your man is a poser with no substance, nothing more...get a clue"

Stupid? now your just saying what the liberals, hes a very smart man. and very smart when it comes to politics, btw i have speach problems, i have a hard time speaking the english language but that doesnt make me stupid at all. specialy when im in front of people i have a very hard time. speaking problems do NOT mean your dumb. ive know very smart people that have a hard time speaking.

my "man" is a man who stands up for what he believes, and is a strong leaders who is helping with taxes, he's helped my family, helping stop the killing of young life.

[berrywoman]

*ehem* what happened to talking about Coldplay!!!!! :embarrased:

[windmann2]

did you join my e-mail revolution or not.... :embarrased:

what's da email revolution???

in the beginning of the thread... it says to email your comments on that fools commentary from last night. myword@foxnews.com

absolutely...

[cheers2u]

...so is chris martin still a christian?

[MrLick]

I dont think he is, but im not sure.

[timeo]

...so is chris martin still a christian?

Who cares, Fox News is crack!!!! and without the fun aspect of it! (not that I'd know...)

[badlydrawngirl]

chris martin was never a christian :confused:

[khanus3]

I love Coldplay as much as everyone else who comes to this board, but that doesn't mean that I agree with everything that Chris says.

And in this case, I think that Chris is dead wrong.

Shareholders are of unimaginable importance to the world economy, and to capitalism (which is NOT evil). Much of what we all have today, in fact, the very computers that you all read this with, all are here right now because some shareholders in the past were willing to take a risk and make an investment. Without shareholders, progress would be extremely slow.

I admire Chris for having such strong beliefs, but I would love to see what he would think if he didn't have a multi-million dollar bank account. It's easy to be so idealistic when you are that wealthy.


By the way, I almost never post here, but MrCool, I agree with most of what you have been saying.

To everyone else: Just because we enjoy someone's music doesn't mean we should follow them blindly and always defend them.

no no no ... the gov't that controls the American media sucks.... so much for feedom of the press and freedom of speech!!! :lol:
What happened to freedom of speech? The last time I checked, it was still there! And I don't see anything in this story that would make me think otherwise.


(psst everyone gets their news from one source.... the Associated Press)
Reuters?


...and if you think FN didn't have an affect on the 2004 presideantal election you're kidding yourself...
Do you really believe that Bush won the election because of Fox News? Please, tell me how, I am willing to listen.


Ithis the worst presidental administration in the history of the US has done...
HA!
Coolidge? Harding? Taft? Carter?


In fact, NBC, CNN and CBS are RIGHT WING in all honesty. There's little questioning of Bush's actions, and their inability to demonstrate the real human tragedy of the Iraq war just speaks volumes about how they cover up the dirty shit that Bush does. Thousands of civilians dead? Hundreds of soldiers dead? Whatever, we'll just show the blown up truck instead, we don't want to sensationalise war!!! :rolleyes:
NBC, CBS, and CNN are not right wing. You don't think that they are showing the real human tragedy of the war? I do! In fact, that is all that they are showing. When is the last time you saw a report about a school being built in Iraq? About water and electricity running? I'm not saying that the everything over there is great, because it's not, but there are good things happening, and they are rarely reported.



the president of the United States cares only about himself and how much money his daddy makes with oil deals he makes from the Saudis.. but anyhoo!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I think you've seen one too many Michael Moore documentaries.



the president of the United States cares only about himself and how much money his daddy makes with oil deals he makes from the Saudis.. but anyhoo!!!!!!!!!!!!!

this is about this idiot guy slagging off Chris and OUR generation!!!! This infuriates me, where does he get off talking like this...
I'm part of "OUR generation" as well, but I don't think that "this idiot guy" is "slagging off" any of us. In fact, he's just giving his opinion, which happened to be about Chris Martin. Not about you, or me, or any of us!



A lot of people here are reading into this story way too much. All that happened here was that Chris made some comments about the world economics and politics, and a commentator called him on it. In my opinion, the Fox News guy was actually right, but that is only my opinion.

Either way, this is not an attack on "our generation" at all, I really have no idea where that came from. But if anyone wants to continue talking politics however, I'd be all for it.

-Andrew

[berrywoman]

wow.. one post and you think you have all the answers..

apparently you didnt read the 'other' article. in which it clearly states he was using a bit of humor in his comment. He said they were evil because they didnt care if his album was compromised artistically! They (shareholders) care about when deadlines are met.. how much capital they'll gain, how much money they are spending in the studio.. as an artist.. they (Coldplay) didnt care about deadlines, didnt think about 'making the 3rd qtr. sales', all they wanted to do was produce an ace album without having to compromise anything they truly believe in. Which in my opinion is why he says they are evil. :rolleyes:

as for the Associated Press/Reuters.. dig deeper, they are probably owned by the same fellow..

and as for the 'our generation' bit... this guy made a general statement about 'young america'... go back and read... :P Republican... *pfft* :rolleyes:

To everyone else: Just because we enjoy someone's music doesn't mean we should follow them blindly and always defend them.

this isnt why I agree with Chris Martin.. you dont know me, so dont assume... I happen to be a person who thinks for myself. thank you berry much.. :smug:

[colduser]

I could give a shit what Chris said about shareholders. He has every right to voive his opinion towards a mostly sleazy machine. Capitalism is a must though to keep globalization in motion. Things will never change.

In regards to Khanus 3- Yes Bush is one of the WORST in modern memory.
Here's a small list of his dubious achivements.
Lying about WMD to invade Iraq.
Misallocation of resources for the war on terror, while our real enemy(bin ladin) is still at large.
Taking a 500 biliion dollar surplus and turning it around to a 500 biliion defecit in a year.
Rolling back environmental regulations and protections for our forests and air.
Creating an environment in which the american people were made to feel uncomfortable and as though they were "traitors" for speaking out about the government.
Attempted to mold the constitution in line with his personal beliefs.
Hiring reporters to man the white house press corps.
Having his staff hire journalists to write pro-administration stories.

Big Brother Anyone??

[khanus3]

I actually did read the other article, several times now, and I guess I am still missing the part that says Chris is trying to be funny. The way I read it, he is completely serious. Please show me where it says he is just kidding.

as for the Associated Press/Reuters.. dig deeper, they are probably owned by the same fellow..
I'm really not sure if you are being sarcastic or not....but just in case you are serious......they are definitely not owned by the same fellow. AP is cooperative owned by over 1000 contributing newspapers, and Reuters is a public company listed on NASDAQ....which means that it is owned by evil shareholders! :) [/code]

[berrywoman]

I actually did read the other article, several times now, and I guess I am still missing the part that says Chris is trying to be funny. The way I read it, he is completely serious. Please show me where it says he is just kidding.

as for the Associated Press/Reuters.. dig deeper, they are probably owned by the same fellow..
I'm really not sure if you are being sarcastic or not....but just in case you are serious......they are definitely not owned by the same fellow. AP is cooperative owned by over 1000 contributing newspapers, and Reuters is a public company listed on NASDAQ....which means that it is owned by evil shareholders! :) [/code]


Chris told me so, when I saw him in NY last week.. there, now I have bragged long enough.. :laugh3:

I guess I was on the button with the Republican call... :P

[MrLick]

"Creating an environment in which the american people were made to feel uncomfortable and as though they were "traitors" for speaking out about the government. "

lol thats so untrue. Most the country is sick of the left bashing its own country and doing alot of damage to it, bush didnt create it the left did.

"Having his staff hire journalists to write pro-administration stories."

Really? With todays media i'd like to see one.

[berrywoman]

^ thats the exact type of propaganda the right wants to publicise.. lol its laughable.....

face it... we're suppose to be a country united.. instead we're a nation divided and its no one's fault..... we just are.

[Albie]

great point :)

[MrLick]

^ thats the exact type of propaganda the right wants to publicise.. lol its laughable.....

face it... we're suppose to be a country united.. instead we're a nation divided and its no one's fault..... we just are.

Its bob dylans fault, jeeze.

anywho im not a propagandist(sp?) just telling it how i see it.

[colduser]

mrcool, then what do you call those on the right that talked about those that chose to protest the war as "unamerican" and a "traitor"? I know what I experienced including friends of mine being spit on by people as we protested the war. Also, please stop referring to those on the left as though they are bashing america. In fact it is quite the opposite. We care about the country and don't want to see it go down the tubes because of a wreckless administration that quells dissent at any cost. Dissent is what makes this and every other democratic country great. The little guy always must have a place and a voice. Do you really see nothing wrong with this administration, is it really above reproach? Surely you must see some itty bitty problem with W and the way he rules.

[gentleparachute]

"OK since bush seems to know best about all things pertaining to the world and the persons within it and you being such a staunch supporter of his you must now agree for yourself and your future family members to never use or have applied to your persons any medical procedures or techniques that are discoverd through Stem Cell research such as cures for cancer, diabetes, Parkinsons, MS, etc. etc."

I would never, NEVER take any meds that came from stem cells, il be on my death bed and if it was the only cure i'd refuse it, taking one life to save another is well wrong. If my son was dying and the only cure was from stem cell well then he'd die. i mean what if we find out newborn babies make chemicals that can cure cancer, kill millions of newborns to save cancer victims?


" Why you ask, because your man Mr. Bush and the religioius right are against Stem Cell research in all it's forms and as of today Dubya would veto (not allow) any bill that would allow for the larger expansion of Stem Cell research in general"

thats a good thing, destroying life is wrong.


"...Of course Nancy Reagan is very much for Stem Cell research as is Bill Frist the Senate Republican Majority leader (a doctor) both Republicans but hey Dubya knows everyting right he's a good man,"

Indeed he is, for not supporting the killing of life.

Not all forms of stem cell research involve embryos or killing life. What about research that uses stem cells obtained from cloning, where the nucleus of a cell (lets say skin) is inserted into an egg cell (ovum)? Surely you wouldn't call that killing of life? I mean no life is created nor harmed in the process... The skin cell, egg cell and resulting cloned stem cell are all just that - CELLS, the same way any other cell in your body are. They are not some living thing that was created/destroyed through the cloning process. I mean you can't take any of the cells and leave them out in the open and expect them to survive like bacteria, nor can the cloned stem cells develop into a full blown human. Mr Bush wants to ban even this kind of stem cell research.

I would never support the killing of life, but you need to know what it is you are supporting... Banning ALL forms of stem cell research would prevent even research that does not destroy life in any way from being carried out (unless you call killing of cells/tissues destroying life --> then you wouldn't go for surgery either coz that would involve killing your own cells), and you would be preventing a lot of lives from being saved or the lives of people who need this research from being improved.

"while a stupid ill informed one... a guy who can't even speak an entire sentence in his too few press conferences without tripping over his own tongue...mr. cool your man is a poser with no substance, nothing more...get a clue"

Stupid? now your just saying what the liberals, hes a very smart man. and very smart when it comes to politics, btw i have speach problems, i have a hard time speaking the english language but that doesnt make me stupid at all. specialy when im in front of people i have a very hard time. speaking problems do NOT mean your dumb. ive know very smart people that have a hard time speaking.

Sorry for not liking (or even opposing) your president, I can't help it after all he's done. And it IS my business coz his actions and decisions do affect my life half way across the world... He (and his administration) has been so anti-democratic, anti-progress and anti-anything that will make the world a better place that I can more or less predict what he will do based on whether it's for the betterment/detriment to the world. Examples are the millions suffering in Iraq because of social upheaval due to his war on non-existent WMD; the rising oil prices due to his war mongering, which as everyone knows is just about the most direct way to cause all round inflation WORLDWIDE; refusing to ratify the Kyoto Protocol to reduce CO2 emissions (it may not solve the problem but at least it's still something); and his unwillingness to engage the world apart from gun-toting and making everybody (US citizen or not) miserable.

Sure he's not stupid, like you said he's a very smart political animal. But what does that make him? A deceiving man for trying to appear dumb when it comes to making policies when he's really not? Or if he really is stupid like a lot of us suspect, then the world (since US is undeniably a world leader) is being led by an idiot.

About his speech problems, a lot of people have problems talking in public too. Granted it is not criminal nor is it even a must-have quality in a leader to be a great public speaker, I would want the leader of my country to at least be able to say something intelligently & intelligibly when asked for opinions or speaking in public... Bush is after all the president of the USA (I'm sure u guys have lots of able people out there) and gets quoted in local news around the world. Or if he doesn't talk well, then presumably he would have some other qualities to compensate for it, which doesn't seem to be the case either.

Whatever it is, I'm sick of Bush-bashing. :rolleyes: Coz no matter what the rest of the world say or do, he's still here... and we've still got 3? years of his leadership to go. Chris Martin bashing bush? He's not the only one. At least half the world share the same sentiments and totally detest him.

[windmann2]

"OK since bush seems to know best about all things pertaining to the world and the persons within it and you being such a staunch supporter of his you must now agree for yourself and your future family members to never use or have applied to your persons any medical procedures or techniques that are discoverd through Stem Cell research such as cures for cancer, diabetes, Parkinsons, MS, etc. etc."

I would never, NEVER take any meds that came from stem cells, il be on my death bed and if it was the only cure i'd refuse it, taking one life to save another is well wrong. If my son was dying and the only cure was from stem cell well then he'd die. i mean what if we find out newborn babies make chemicals that can cure cancer, kill millions of newborns to save cancer victims?


" Why you ask, because your man Mr. Bush and the religioius right are against Stem Cell research in all it's forms and as of today Dubya would veto (not allow) any bill that would allow for the larger expansion of Stem Cell research in general"

thats a good thing, destroying life is wrong.


"...Of course Nancy Reagan is very much for Stem Cell research as is Bill Frist the Senate Republican Majority leader (a doctor) both Republicans but hey Dubya knows everyting right he's a good man,"

Indeed he is, for not supporting the killing of life.

Not all forms of stem cell research involve embryos or killing life. What about research that uses stem cells obtained from cloning, where the nucleus of a cell (lets say skin) is inserted into an egg cell (ovum)? Surely you wouldn't call that killing of life? I mean no life is created nor harmed in the process... The skin cell, egg cell and resulting cloned stem cell are all just that - CELLS, the same way any other cell in your body are. They are not some living thing that was created/destroyed through the cloning process. I mean you can't take any of the cells and leave them out in the open and expect them to survive like bacteria, nor can the cloned stem cells develop into a full blown human. Mr Bush wants to ban even this kind of stem cell research.

I would never support the killing of life, but you need to know what it is you are supporting... Banning ALL forms of stem cell research would prevent even research that does not destroy life in any way from being carried out (unless you call killing of cells/tissues destroying life --> then you wouldn't go for surgery either coz that would involve killing your own cells), and you would be preventing a lot of lives from being saved or the lives of people who need this research from being improved.

"while a stupid ill informed one... a guy who can't even speak an entire sentence in his too few press conferences without tripping over his own tongue...mr. cool your man is a poser with no substance, nothing more...get a clue"

Stupid? now your just saying what the liberals, hes a very smart man. and very smart when it comes to politics, btw i have speach problems, i have a hard time speaking the english language but that doesnt make me stupid at all. specialy when im in front of people i have a very hard time. speaking problems do NOT mean your dumb. ive know very smart people that have a hard time speaking.

Sorry for not liking (or even opposing) your president, I can't help it after all he's done. And it IS my business coz his actions and decisions do affect my life half way across the world... He (and his administration) has been so anti-democratic, anti-progress and anti-anything that will make the world a better place that I can more or less predict what he will do based on whether it's for the betterment/detriment to the world. Examples are the millions suffering in Iraq because of social upheaval due to his war on non-existent WMD; the rising oil prices due to his war mongering, which as everyone knows is just about the most direct way to cause all round inflation WORLDWIDE; refusing to ratify the Kyoto Protocol to reduce CO2 emissions (it may not solve the problem but at least it's still something); and his unwillingness to engage the world apart from gun-toting and making everybody (US citizen or not) miserable.

Sure he's not stupid, like you said he's a very smart political animal. But what does that make him? A deceiving man for trying to appear dumb when it comes to making policies when he's really not? Or if he really is stupid like a lot of us suspect, then the world (since US is undeniably a world leader) is being led by an idiot.

About his speech problems, a lot of people have problems talking in public too. Granted it is not criminal nor is it even a must-have quality in a leader to be a great public speaker, I would want the leader of my country to at least be able to say something intelligently & intelligibly when asked for opinions or speaking in public... Bush is after all the president of the USA (I'm sure u guys have lots of able people out there) and gets quoted in local news around the world. Or if he doesn't talk well, then presumably he would have some other qualities to compensate for it, which doesn't seem to be the case either.

Whatever it is, I'm sick of Bush-bashing. :rolleyes: Coz no matter what the rest of the world say or do, he's still here... and we've still got 3? years of his leadership to go. Chris Martin bashing bush? He's not the only one. At least half the world share the same sentiments and totally detest him.

Damn straight gentleparachute...But what you have to realize GP is that Mr. Cool (yes you are a kid son, if your parents are still locking/not letting you out of your house) is raised by Bush loving parents, which is fine but his opinion is not basically his own, it's his misinformed peoples. He's just too young to know any better. By the simple fact that Mr. Cool likes Coldplay though he is contradicting his support for Bush because Chris Martin has never hidden his disdain for Mr. Cool's hero Bush...So maybe there is light at the end of tunnel for our kid "Cool"...Or maybe not, he'll have to reject Coldplay (take himself off this here board as well) because he can't have his cake and eat it too. So what's it's gonna be kid cool??? Coldplay or Bush, you gotta choose...You put yourself in this predictament, time to pick a side...

[lumberjack2]

:sweatdrop: Gosh the heat in here! I think everyone should chill a little and feel the love!:) :heart: :)

[gentleparachute]

Damn straight gentleparachute...But what you have to realize GP is that Mr. Cool (yes you are a kid son, if your parents are still locking/not letting you out of your house) is raised by Bush loving parents, which is fine but his opinion is not basically his own, it's his misinformed peoples. He's just too young to know any better. By the simple fact that Mr. Cool likes Coldplay though he is contradicting his support for Bush because Chris Martin has never hidden his disdain for Mr. Cool's hero Bush...So maybe there is light at the end of tunnel for our kid "Cool"...Or maybe not, he'll have to reject Coldplay (take himself off this here board as well) because he can't have his cake and eat it too. So what's it's gonna be kid cool??? Coldplay or Bush, you gotta choose...You put yourself in this predictament, time to pick a side...

Yep I know, thanks... Just had to get some facts straight, y'know? Truths & facts have been hard to get lately, given a certain someone's penchant for bending, ignoring or even straight out denying them so often...

[badlydrawngirl]

i think you should all watch channel 4 news with jon snow


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Good idea.... :D


:smug: that man is great! he is a news god!

[badlydrawngirl]

maybe not all shareholders but capitalism surely is pure evil,


people who are corrupted by power in capitalist or communist society are evil :stunned:

[badlydrawngirl]

ny times your kidding right? that is a biased newspaper, bbcnews.com is the best and fairest. ny times if leftleaning, its well known for that too.



all news is biased :huh:

[*Ali*]

people who are corrupted by power in capitalist or communist society are evil

true that, hitler and stalin were very similar :stunned:

[badlydrawngirl]

thats a good thing, destroying life is wrong.



:lol: :lol: thats hilarious
tell that to mr blair, mr bush, and his administration when they're done bombing innocent people
i suppose in the case of iraq, you'd argue that the end justify the means. i've yet to be convinced of that one.....

[badlydrawngirl]

true that, hitler and stalin were very similar



yes indeedy
damn corrupt politicians *shakes fist*

[khanus3]

By the simple fact that Mr. Cool likes Coldplay though he is contradicting his support for Bush.... he'll have to reject Coldplay (take himself off this here board as well) because he can't have his cake and eat it too. So what's it's gonna be kid cool??? Coldplay or Bush, you gotta choose...You put yourself in this predictament, time to pick a side...

HAHA!

This is EXACTLY what I meant when I said,
Just because we enjoy someone's music doesn't mean we should follow them blindly and always defend them.
It is just plain STUPID to think that you must agree politically with any band that you are a fan of. Just because I think that Chris Martin iswrong on certain issues does not mean that he doesn't write good lyrics that I can enjoy.

This is why the entertainment industry can prove to be dangerous. Once celebrities become famous, EVERYONE listens to them about EVERY ISSUE....but in reality, Chris Martin has no more knowledge of politics than you or I, he just has the spotlight. I don't give a shit what he believes, but I can still like Coldplay's music.

[berrywoman]

This is why the entertainment industry can prove to be dangerous. Once celebrities become famous, EVERYONE listens to them about EVERY ISSUE....but in reality, Chris Martin has no more knowledge of politics than you or I, he just has the spotlight. I don't give a shit what he believes, but I can still like Coldplay's music.




well at least he uses his 'popularity' for some good... which is why a lot of people in his position take advantage of that 'popularity' to promote good causes. This Fox newsguy only highlights on one stupid comment.. this has nothing to do with him being rich or not.. its about princple.. caring about what he believe in, and not how much money they will make...

[MrLick]

"OK since bush seems to know best about all things pertaining to the world and the persons within it and you being such a staunch supporter of his you must now agree for yourself and your future family members to never use or have applied to your persons any medical procedures or techniques that are discoverd through Stem Cell research such as cures for cancer, diabetes, Parkinsons, MS, etc. etc."

I would never, NEVER take any meds that came from stem cells, il be on my death bed and if it was the only cure i'd refuse it, taking one life to save another is well wrong. If my son was dying and the only cure was from stem cell well then he'd die. i mean what if we find out newborn babies make chemicals that can cure cancer, kill millions of newborns to save cancer victims?


" Why you ask, because your man Mr. Bush and the religioius right are against Stem Cell research in all it's forms and as of today Dubya would veto (not allow) any bill that would allow for the larger expansion of Stem Cell research in general"

thats a good thing, destroying life is wrong.


"...Of course Nancy Reagan is very much for Stem Cell research as is Bill Frist the Senate Republican Majority leader (a doctor) both Republicans but hey Dubya knows everyting right he's a good man,"

Indeed he is, for not supporting the killing of life.

Not all forms of stem cell research involve embryos or killing life. What about research that uses stem cells obtained from cloning, where the nucleus of a cell (lets say skin) is inserted into an egg cell (ovum)? Surely you wouldn't call that killing of life? I mean no life is created nor harmed in the process... The skin cell, egg cell and resulting cloned stem cell are all just that - CELLS, the same way any other cell in your body are. They are not some living thing that was created/destroyed through the cloning process. I mean you can't take any of the cells and leave them out in the open and expect them to survive like bacteria, nor can the cloned stem cells develop into a full blown human. Mr Bush wants to ban even this kind of stem cell research.

I would never support the killing of life, but you need to know what it is you are supporting... Banning ALL forms of stem cell research would prevent even research that does not destroy life in any way from being carried out (unless you call killing of cells/tissues destroying life --> then you wouldn't go for surgery either coz that would involve killing your own cells), and you would be preventing a lot of lives from being saved or the lives of people who need this research from being improved.

"while a stupid ill informed one... a guy who can't even speak an entire sentence in his too few press conferences without tripping over his own tongue...mr. cool your man is a poser with no substance, nothing more...get a clue"

Stupid? now your just saying what the liberals, hes a very smart man. and very smart when it comes to politics, btw i have speach problems, i have a hard time speaking the english language but that doesnt make me stupid at all. specialy when im in front of people i have a very hard time. speaking problems do NOT mean your dumb. ive know very smart people that have a hard time speaking.

Sorry for not liking (or even opposing) your president, I can't help it after all he's done. And it IS my business coz his actions and decisions do affect my life half way across the world... He (and his administration) has been so anti-democratic, anti-progress and anti-anything that will make the world a better place that I can more or less predict what he will do based on whether it's for the betterment/detriment to the world. Examples are the millions suffering in Iraq because of social upheaval due to his war on non-existent WMD; the rising oil prices due to his war mongering, which as everyone knows is just about the most direct way to cause all round inflation WORLDWIDE; refusing to ratify the Kyoto Protocol to reduce CO2 emissions (it may not solve the problem but at least it's still something); and his unwillingness to engage the world apart from gun-toting and making everybody (US citizen or not) miserable.

Sure he's not stupid, like you said he's a very smart political animal. But what does that make him? A deceiving man for trying to appear dumb when it comes to making policies when he's really not? Or if he really is stupid like a lot of us suspect, then the world (since US is undeniably a world leader) is being led by an idiot.

About his speech problems, a lot of people have problems talking in public too. Granted it is not criminal nor is it even a must-have quality in a leader to be a great public speaker, I would want the leader of my country to at least be able to say something intelligently & intelligibly when asked for opinions or speaking in public... Bush is after all the president of the USA (I'm sure u guys have lots of able people out there) and gets quoted in local news around the world. Or if he doesn't talk well, then presumably he would have some other qualities to compensate for it, which doesn't seem to be the case either.

Whatever it is, I'm sick of Bush-bashing. :rolleyes: Coz no matter what the rest of the world say or do, he's still here... and we've still got 3? years of his leadership to go. Chris Martin bashing bush? He's not the only one. At least half the world share the same sentiments and totally detest him.

Damn straight gentleparachute...But what you have to realize GP is that Mr. Cool (yes you are a kid son, if your parents are still locking/not letting you out of your house) is raised by Bush loving parents, which is fine but his opinion is not basically his own, it's his misinformed peoples. He's just too young to know any better. By the simple fact that Mr. Cool likes Coldplay though he is contradicting his support for Bush because Chris Martin has never hidden his disdain for Mr. Cool's hero Bush...So maybe there is light at the end of tunnel for our kid "Cool"...Or maybe not, he'll have to reject Coldplay (take himself off this here board as well) because he can't have his cake and eat it too. So what's it's gonna be kid cool??? Coldplay or Bush, you gotta choose...You put yourself in this predictament, time to pick a side...

my opinion is my own, i CANNOT stand my parents, I basically have none of the same beliefes as my parents, do not try to pin this off saying what my parents say it is not. If you knew me you would be amazed that im a republican when my parents are. my beliefs are my own from MANY hours of studying this, i love politics and goverments, and history i study and spend many hours learning about this, and i made my decision based on my morals and beliefes.

lol you can be a coldplay fan and a fan of bush, i pick both.

[MrLick]

people who are corrupted by power in capitalist or communist society are evil

true that, hitler and stalin were very similar :stunned:

They were 2 sides of the same coin.

[MrLick]

thats a good thing, destroying life is wrong.



:lol: :lol: thats hilarious
tell that to mr blair, mr bush, and his administration when they're done bombing innocent people
i suppose in the case of iraq, you'd argue that the end justify the means. i've yet to be convinced of that one.....

Most the people bombed in the war were not innocent, far more of the people we bombed were military people or terrorist. in iraq were going ot end up saving more life, unless the war drags on for too long, but if it ends in the next few years all in all lives will be saved. saddam starved 60,000 and killed tens of thousands more, if he was in power for the 3-4 yrs he would have killed more iraqi's himself. but not only that our president has the right and the duty to do what he must to keep our country safe, if that means taking out dictators who have killed close to a million people and kill tens of thousands more a year and how supports terrorism so be it. When he went to war he had alot of reason too, most of it turned out to be false, teh wmd's was a big mistake but none the less he did what a good president woudl have. not to mention saddam was planning to restart his wmd program after the sanction that would have ended in a few years, so instead of taking him out while he was making wmd's, we took him out before he did. So we would have had to go in in the future and stop his wmd making, sooner or later this war had to happen, Bush sr didnt finish the gulf war and messed up.

[berrywoman]

So we would have had to go in in the future and stop his wmd making, sooner or later this war had to happen, Bush sr didnt finish the gulf war and messed up.


uh, Sr. didnt finish the 'job' becaus he didnt know how to put closure on that war. How are we going to get out of this one?? I dont want a pres. who LIES to the country to go to war. First he pushed the war issue because of 9/11 and the terrorists... yadda yadda yadda where are the terrorists that bomb the WTC??? hmm where are those WMD???? hmmm where is the money if federal aide he promised the city of NY after the 9/11 attacks???hmmm where's our surplus in the budget???? hmmmm lots of unanswered questions.. yea.. I feel real good he's my president. I am not saying the other nobhead would've done better.. he's another idiot.. lol but this guy is just as bad.. lol maybe even more of an idiot.

[gvargas]

Does the cd really retail at $20? Please don't say it's so... :stunned:

[MrLick]

So we would have had to go in in the future and stop his wmd making, sooner or later this war had to happen, Bush sr didnt finish the gulf war and messed up.


uh, Sr. didnt finish the 'job' becaus he didnt know how to put closure on that war. How are we going to get out of this one?? I dont want a pres. who LIES to the country to go to war. First he pushed the war issue because of 9/11 and the terrorists... yadda yadda yadda where are the terrorists that bomb the WTC??? hmm where are those WMD???? hmmm where is the money if federal aide he promised the city of NY after the 9/11 attacks???hmmm where's our surplus in the budget???? hmmmm lots of unanswered questions.. yea.. I feel real good he's my president. I am not saying the other nobhead would've done better.. he's another idiot.. lol but this guy is just as bad.. lol maybe even more of an idiot.

Ofcourse i dont want a president who lies to go to war, No one does! Bush didnt lie about this war. umm bush pushed for the war for many reasons, terrorism, freedom, wmds. the terrorist were in iraq, Salman Pak, a terrorist camp in northern iraq was one of the first targets of the war, saddam was not connected with 911 and bush never said that, but he was connected to other terrorist groups, and they are just as much as a threat to us as alqeada, we take out alqeada another group will just replace it.

[berrywoman]

uh huh..... and where is Osama BinLaden?? :rolleyes: I could've sworn that this is the main reason he went into Iraq, to look for the 'evil doers'... and don't be so sure that innocent civilians didnt get bombed on... remember the military 'accidentally' dropped a bomb onto a town... I wish I could find that article.. but I do remember it was early on..

[MrLick]

hiding for his life in some cave. um no, you have mistaken on that. not to mention leaving saddam and his sons unchecked and in power for the next 10 or more years would have caused far more iraqi's to die. if you have to accidently kill a few to in the end save more, then over all good was done.But if the war drags on for a few more years then it wouldnt have been worth it. But so far if it turns out good its worth it.


this is my last post before everyone gets mad, I want wahts best for iraq and you guys want whats best for iraq, we disagree the ways for it to happen.

[berrywoman]

But if the war drags on for a few more years then it wouldnt have been worth it. But so far if it turns out good its worth it.


hmm well its been a good 3years so far.... how much longer?? :rolleyes: He has no exit stratagey.... which is why his pops didn't 'finish' the job as you say.. lol so who's next on his take out list?? Castro?? I dont think so..

[MrLick]

who's next? anyone who threatens us, and castro is not a threat to us. this day and age we cannot sit by and let our enemies get stronger, we cant be like we were before ww2. 3 yrs isnt long fora war, but the exit stratigy? we have one, train iraqi force's til they can take over and do the job, then we can start pulling out our troops. that is the exit stratigy.

[berrywoman]

who's next? anyone who threatens us, and castro is not a threat to us. this day and age we cannot sit by and let our enemies get stronger, we cant be like we were before ww2. 3 yrs isnt long fora war, but the exit stratigy? we have one, train iraqi force's til they can take over and do the job, then we can start pulling out our troops. that is the exit stratigy.


so I suppose N Korea is next?? they have nuclear weapons...

this is exactly the reason why most of the world hates America and the people that live here.. :laugh3: hahaah anyone who 'threatens' us.. why did he wait until they attacked us to make a move?? He knew, they all knew an attack was eminent.. but did nothing.. why?? To justify his plans for invading Iraq... which my they way, was led under false pretenses...

why do you think all these men who worked for him resigned?? They didnt want to be a part of the giant lie anymore lol :lol:

[MrLick]

N Korea is a big threat to us, china and half the world as is Iran, BUT there are many ways of solving this problem that would not have and didnt work in iraq. its very possible Nk will fall without war, the economy is very bad, so we have a chance to solve this problem with peace.



lots of people knew an attack was eminent, but we cant stop every attack, another is going to happen. its not a matter of IF but a matter of WHEN. thats how it works, we prevent one attack another day another will eventualy happen. if 911 didnt happen it would be another month or another year, no matter who is president, they will never be able to keep us completely safe! the war was half way under false pretenses, the wmd's part was wrong. But saddam working with and helping and training terrorist was not, and saddam killing close to a 100,000 a year was not wrong. Or their tired of all the crap the media is saying and the world.

the world is sick of america becuase we are the biggest most powerful country, nothing we do will ever make us look better, the world is tired of us being on top, this is true for ANY country that is on top. if we were to become a 3rd world country and Mexico was to rise as superpower and be the biggest strongest one i promies you their would be just as much hatred against it as there is for america.

[khanus3]

My justification for the war in Iraq:

U.S. Department of State Report on Iraq
Released September 13, 1999
(Make sure to read "Repression of the Iraqi People" and "Evading U.N. Resolutions and Failure to Disarm")
http://www.fas.org/news/iraq/1999/09/iraq99.htm


AND


http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/926912/posts


There were no WMDs in Iraq. We know that now. Bush made a mistake when he was given bad intelligence. He did not lie about WMD. If he had known that there were no WMDS he would have also known that it would be political suicide to claim so because the truth would soon be clear and it has hurt him at the polls.

Nonetheless, Saddams failure to abide by U.N. resolutions, his war crimes, and the mass murder he commited is reason enough for me. It is of dire importance to the integrity of the U.N. that it's resolutions be enforced. What good are rules if people know that there are no consequences for breaking them?

If you were a cop, and you think that a criminal has a gun but he won't let you check for one, wouldn't you assume that he does?

[MrLick]

Khanus3 i accidently added you to my ignore list adn it wont let me unignoreo you yet, but i rememebr the last part of what you said sortof.

Bush did not lie about the war, he relied on his people and intelligence agencies from our country and around the world to make his decisions. He was given wrong information about iraq.

[khanus3]

so I suppose N Korea is next?? they have nuclear weapons...

The Korean War never ended. There was just a cease-fire......

why did he wait until they attacked us to make a move?? He knew, they all knew an attack was eminent.. but did nothing.. why??

Before Pearl Harbor, FDR knew that some type of attack in the Pacific was imminent as well. Yet he waited, why? Because he knew he would not yet have the support of the American people. There is no way that Bush would've been able to go into Afghanistan before September 11.

[windmann2]

By the simple fact that Mr. Cool likes Coldplay though he is contradicting his support for Bush.... he'll have to reject Coldplay (take himself off this here board as well) because he can't have his cake and eat it too. So what's it's gonna be kid cool??? Coldplay or Bush, you gotta choose...You put yourself in this predictament, time to pick a side...

HAHA!

This is EXACTLY what I meant when I said,
Just because we enjoy someone's music doesn't mean we should follow them blindly and always defend them.
It is just plain STUPID to think that you must agree politically with any band that you are a fan of. Just because I think that Chris Martin iswrong on certain issues does not mean that he doesn't write good lyrics that I can enjoy.

This is why the entertainment industry can prove to be dangerous. Once celebrities become famous, EVERYONE listens to them about EVERY ISSUE....but in reality, Chris Martin has no more knowledge of politics than you or I, he just has the spotlight. I don't give a shit what he believes, but I can still like Coldplay's music.

No guy that is not what I said...I said Chris Martin is right on with his opinions about Bush, but I didn't need him to tell me that because I use my brain...But it's good none-the-less someone (i.e. Chris Martin) is saying what he is saying about the Bush Administration because it needs to be said out loud and to as many people in public as possible, you don't like it, too damn bad. I, as a citizen of this PLANET am not just looking at the world as US Citizen and wondering what the world can do for me or my country. Rather as citizen of this PLANET, the question should be: what can I do, to better the planet overall? That's what I ask myself everyday. And that's what you knuckleheads don't understand. Your always looking out for your own interests (gasing up your inefficient SUV's, buying De Beers Diamonds, and cleaning out your employees 401k's) the way many right-wing perspecitives are in the US and elsewhere. Basically, it's who do you have to step on to better yourself and get what you want. It's sad it really is and you haven't a clue about the world or your place in it.... Why do I support Chris, because Chris' stance is the right and correct one, plain and simple and celebrity doesn't have a goddamned thing to do with it..This administration is misguieded in every policy decision they've undertaken (a tame of monkeys could lead better) and yet still no one has informed any of us just exactly what great positive things have come because of this great Buffon they call DubYa...Not a one...

[windmann2]

who's next? anyone who threatens us, and castro is not a threat to us. this day and age we cannot sit by and let our enemies get stronger, we cant be like we were before ww2. 3 yrs isnt long fora war, but the exit stratigy? we have one, train iraqi force's til they can take over and do the job, then we can start pulling out our troops. that is the exit stratigy.

The US has no intention of ever leaving Iraq until her oil reserves are dry kid "cool" if you think otherwise you're kidding yourself...Why do you think we pulled all of our forces out of Saudi Arabia, where the largest reserves in the world are to go to Iraq the second largest reserves..We are way too dependent on oil to leave the place and the US has built and is continuing to build around Iraq permanent bases to protect those assets, that is a fact...

[MrLick]

Were not going to completely leave iraq, i know that. we havent left half of europe, south korea. im not sure about japan. but were not going to maintain a heavy military force in iraq after the war, we will have some bases and troops, but not close to what we have now, adn they wont be doing what they are doing now.

[windmann2]

so I suppose N Korea is next?? they have nuclear weapons...

The Korean War never ended. There was just a cease-fire......

why did he wait until they attacked us to make a move?? He knew, they all knew an attack was eminent.. but did nothing.. why??

Before Pearl Harbor, FDR knew that some type of attack in the Pacific was imminent as well. Yet he waited, why? Because he knew he would not yet have the support of the American people. There is no way that Bush would've been able to go into Afghanistan before September 11.

yeah bush would've have never gone into Aghanistan if not for them gosh darn Arabs who flew dem airplanes into the World Trade and Pentagon...you see cause up until that point in his administration he was too damn busy vacationing 70% of the time at his ranch in crawford, tx ignoring daily memos addressed to him that said "Bid Laden Determined to Attack US"...when 911 happened he kinda had to get up off his arse and actually do something for a change...go get the ruskies or something, right there Dubya...

[berrywoman]

I think I kinda like that this thread has flourished into a rather nice disussion n politics... :smug: and its hiding here undercover in the Coldplay section.. lol


:devil: :kiss:

[MrLick]

fell for the lies off moore? im sorry. the whole bin laden determined to attack this is so lame. i mean he already knew that, it was easy to see. but what the memo did not say was when, where or how! you see we know they are going to strike again but when? where? how? theycome up with so many genius ways of attacking no one can stop every attack. under clinton we had many terrorist attacks, 93 wtc attacks, the embassy bombing, uss cole, but clinton did little about it. the memo about laden goin to attack really did NO good, just like if one came out today saying he was going to attack. its sad anyone fell for moore's b.s.

Bush was bearly in office long enough to actually do anything! crying out loud clinton and the liberals made so many damn laws binding our goverment agencies hand behind there backs, they didnt communicate with each other, its was impossible to stop the attack with that little amount of time with the horrible laws and regulations we had in place.

not to mention clinton had atleast 2 chances to get binladen. one of them he was offered by sudan, they were just going to give him, yes you heard me GIVE HIM to us, but ofcourse clinton turned them down, what a great president.

[berrywoman]

I have to agree with Hannibal here.. (mrcool) that was a bit scripted windmann!! :lol:

[MrLick]

I think I kinda like that this thread has flourished into a rather nice disussion n politics... :smug: and its hiding here undercover in the Coldplay section.. lol


:devil: :kiss:

Should we move it to another section. btw Berrychin If im start to become rude or disrespectful then tell me! i do that sometimes when i talk about this kind of stuff.

[MrLick]

I have to agree with Hannibal here.. (mrcool) that was a bit scripted windmann!! :lol:

lol who are you calling hannibal? I love hannibal if your talking about the carthiginan general. lol

[berrywoman]

I think I kinda like that this thread has flourished into a rather nice disussion n politics... :smug: and its hiding here undercover in the Coldplay section.. lol


:devil: :kiss:

Should we move it to another section. btw Berrychin If im start to become rude or disrespectful then tell me! i do that sometimes when i talk about this kind of stuff.


which is why I think this is a good 'productive' discussion'. No one seriously offended anyone.. or been rude... its been a very well behaved discussion... if it should get out of hand... then I will take the appropiate actions... :cool:

[gentleparachute]

who's next? anyone who threatens us, and castro is not a threat to us. this day and age we cannot sit by and let our enemies get stronger, we cant be like we were before ww2. 3 yrs isnt long fora war, but the exit stratigy? we have one, train iraqi force's til they can take over and do the job, then we can start pulling out our troops. that is the exit stratigy.

N Korea is a big threat to us, china and half the world as is Iran, BUT there are many ways of solving this problem that would not have and didnt work in iraq. its very possible Nk will fall without war, the economy is very bad, so we have a chance to solve this problem with peace.

Can I say something? From your posts (and also what Prez. Bush has publicly announced), America seems to feel like almost every other country is out to get her. These countries are "threats" & "enemies"...

Hey pal, have I got news for you. Most of the world do NOT want to make America their enemy. We value our lives and our peace too y'know... America being the superpower that it is, it makes far more sense to co-operate than to commit suicide by making her your enemy.

What "the rest of the world" cannot stand is how IMPERIALIST and SELFISH in attitude your country can be sometimes... Europe (and the Asian civilisations) mostly learned their lessons long ago, that's why they have stopped invading other countries/cultures or imposing their beliefs on others. US shares the world with other people and should realise that the world doesn't (and shouldn't) revolve around them. Other people (with feelings) exist too, and they get angry when they get trampled on too much as Windmann2 has said.

Of course each country has its own interests, but if you're civilised, you shouldn't threaten & force other people to follow yours all the time (as US seems to be doing lately). Since it cannot be that one side is always right, there should be COMMUNICATION and COMPROMISE, even though it is long-drawn and takes much more effort than WAR and THREATS (e.g. economic sanctions). Of course, you would also have to accept that you cannot always have it your way.

At heart, I can say that most countries do not want to be the US's enemy/threat. But we are angry at the hypocrisy and lack of basic respect shown by your country, on the one hand wanting to take a major leadership role in the world (as it rightly should given its power), but on the other shunning the responsibility that comes with it (e.g. helping save more lives by paying its UN dues)... Doesn't that make America sound juvenile? :P

And FYI mrcool, I think the rest of the world was a lot less angry with America when Clinton was in office (not that I'm saying he's perfect or there weren't any issues when he was Prez) than it is now. And also, IMHO it is not a coincidence that 9/11 happened when Bush was in office... I'm not exactly saying that it could have been prevented but you should wonder why it happened when it did and not at any other time in history (e.g. lets say when Clinton was Prez). And lastly, I read a statistic somewhere that a lot more resources are put into research in your country when it's not at war and also that a record amount of money was spent on research when Clinton was in office (even more than now). That (research to improve the world we live in) I think should be the way forward for the world rather than squabbling and going to war over ideological and selfish purposes of individual nations.

[MrLick]

Like i said no matter what country you are, the country on top will always be hated for being on top. like people envy or hate the rich(not all but many do) and many kids in school that despise and envy and hate the popular. the superpowers will be hated by many.

becuase clinton in office did what the rest of the world wanted, we were attacked by terrorist many times, he didnt do hardly anything. plus alot of the world leans towards liberalism, specialy in europe, so they had similiar beliefs with clinton on many issues. but even under clinton we were still hated by many. its just when we have a conservative in office the world of liberals dont like it.

[khanus3]

progress:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/20050526/ts_csm/ohaifastreet

[Ambergris]

:lol: :lol:

[colduser]

Nice article Khnaus3...not. I love how people like you rationalize all of the lies and betrayals dealing with the war by digging up some article on how a street is safer now. tell that to the hundreds of iraqi's families who are dying every day in a needless and criminal war. Yes saddam was a piece of human excrement but there were not daily bombings and deaths as has been commonplace since america stuck her nose where it didn't belong. And mr.cool do not say that I have fallen for moore's tactics. I never ONCE supported this war, and had forseen a quagmire well before moore opended his mouth. And mr.cool, you do realize that when liberals are in office you republicans whine and whine and whine too, so please save me from choking on your hypocrisy.

[MrLick]

Nice article Khnaus3...not. I love how people like you rationalize all of the lies and betrayals dealing with the war by digging up some article on how a street is safer now. tell that to the hundreds of iraqi's families who are dying every day in a needless and criminal war. Yes saddam was a piece of human excrement but there were not daily bombings and deaths as has been commonplace since america stuck her nose where it didn't belong. And mr.cool do not say that I have fallen for moore's tactics. I never ONCE supported this war, and had forseen a quagmire well before moore opended his mouth. And mr.cool, you do realize that when liberals are in office you republicans whine and whine and whine too, so please save me from choking on your hypocrisy.

try? not try succeed. there werent lies, just misinformation during the war, the truth is iraq is free and is getting better year by year. and all in all saddam would have killed far more people if left in power.

I realize that yes, but how does that make my a hypocrit? please explain.

[colduser]

mr.cool. You give liberals slack for bashing bush and complaining about him yet when clinton was in office all the republicans did was complain. "Oh my god, clinton got his dick sucked and lied about it, let's impeach him." Remember that mr.cool. Republicans hated clinton and hung him out to dry but when liberals do the same thing to bush, republicans get all up in arms and say we are being unamerican.
And by the way. YES BUSH LIED TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE ABOUT REASONS TO GO TO WAR. HE IS THE COMMANDER IN CHIEF AND THE BUCK STOPS WITH HIM. Don't make up some excuse that he was some innocent man who was fed false information. Bush wanted to got to war with iraq a long time ago. He lied mr.cool, there is NO OTHER WAY TO READ THIS. He routinely told the american people lies in order to go to war. It is just sad that you cannot see through the corruption and fall for their propaganda that they feed you. This war WAS NOT JUST and history will see it as that. bush's approval ratings continue to plummet. And more and more people do not see the war as a success. You my friend are solidly in the minority on this issue.. NOBODY DIED WHEN CLINTON LIED!!!!

[MrLick]

so? me complaining about liberals bashing bush and republicans doing the same thing make me a hipocrit? I fail to see how.

bush did NOT lie, he was misinformed, ive been told something before and told other people only to find out it was false information, that didnt mean i lied about it, it meant i was misinformed. you see bush doesnt go and get the intelligence on his own he has to rely on the u.s. intelligence agencies and our allies, when MANY of them are wrong, its not his fault.

people blame bush for the cia, nsa and countless other intelligence agencies screwing up, but its only natural for the leader to get blamed for this employers mistakes. When clinton lied no one did die, but when he burried his head in the sand terrorist thrived and became stronger, which is far worse.

Im sorry but you cannot blame the president for the mistakes of the cia, nsa mi6 and other intelligence agencies, no matter how much you hate him and want to the blame lies on those who gave the false info not those who recieved it.

For him to have lied he would have had to know it was false info, but like most of the country and MANY intelligence agencies he was tricked by false reports and very bad intel, he has a duty to our country to protect it, he has to rely on the info he gets to do so, he cannot be held responsible when the info is wrong because of stupidity on the intteligence's community side.


im pretty sure most polls show half the country still supports the war and thinks its going ok, but dont quote me on that part.

[MrLick]

ok that may have not made sense, but ill try to put it how i see it. ok?

If i was president and the head of the cia called told me for a fact their was a nuke in NY so i would evacuate the city right? adn try to find it and stop it, And id make a public statement saying their is a nuke in NY, BUT, aftewards we find out their was no nuke. i wouldnt consider me telling NY that their was a bomb a lie.

[colduser]

Mr.cool, again you are wrong. I CAN BLAME THE PRESIDENT FOR THE MISTAKES OF THE CIA etc.. because he IS the president. You fail to see that he is in charge. If shit goes wrong it is and should be him who takes the blame, END OF STORY. bush and cheney and rumsfeld knew that they would not have a hard time selling a war against saddam becasue most people in this country hated him anyways. So all they needed was smoking gun. "How about we say that saddam is plannng to use wmd right here on american shores and then keep tying 9/11 to iraq and saddam even though most of the hijackers were saudis." Yes mr.cool, fear tactics do work especially when a great deal of the population here is so hopelessly naive. Now history has shown bush, or atleast, his administration has lied about the rationale for war and all the republicans can keep doing is say "hey, fuck the wmd's, it was all about spreading freedom." That is the biggest, stinking load of bullshit I have ever heard. It is so convenient for you to say that he didn't know the information was false, that way you can't hold bush accountable for anything. That is what is really getting to me is that no matter how badly bush fucks up, there are always apologists, such as yourself, that justify every misdeed he has done. I'm sorry to get so heated mr.cool, but I cannpt stand the president and find it hard to believe that people think he is a kind, gentle, generous man that would never lie or harm anybody.

[Dr. Pepper]

Yes mr.cool, fear tactics do work especially when a great deal of the population here is so hopelessly naive.

Stick to arguing policy rather than putting down the people who espouse that policy.

[MrLick]

ya you CAN, but its stupid. i can blame him for my friend hating me doesnt make it right. But lie is not true,

v. lied, ly·ing, (lng) lies
v. intr.

1. To present false information with the intention of deceiving.
2. To convey a false image or impression: Appearances often lie.

he wasnt purposly telling something that is false, he was saying something he and many beleived to be facts.

[colduser]

Dr. pepper, that is my opinion and i'll express it as such. Bush supporters are NAIVE. Simple as that. If you don't like my opinion, don't read it.

[MrLick]

not as naive as anti bush people.

colduser have you ever told someome something you believed and later find out it was wrong?

[colduser]

Mr.cool, bush did "convey a false image" about iraq, or atleast cheney did. Remember in fall '02 when cheny said that the day could come when mushroom clouds appear on our shores becasue of saddam. i knew he was lying then when he said it. There was a great article in rolling stone back in the fall of last year that traced the roots of cheney and rumsfeld and bush. TRUST ME ON THIS. THEY LIED!!

[MrLick]

well at the time it was reguarded as a fact saddam would have nukes soon, adn him being very radical with links to terrorist if that were true it could have happened. he simply said something he believed true because of the info he had recieved, and answere my question!

[colduser]

Of course I have mr.cool. However, it has been found that bush dropped the ball on iraq and still you think he's the best thing since sliced bread. If I'm wrong I would say so. Nobody in your camp ever admits wrong, on any issue. And really this is pointless becasue you're not going to change my mind nor am I going to change yours. We'll have to agree to disagree :)

[MrLick]

so do you think when you did that, that you lied? no one in your camp ever admits when thier wrong either, no political party does that, its stupid, polticaly speaking.

[colduser]

No, it was a mistake. but I am not the president. They must be held to higher standards and they still have yet to admit wrong.
Mr.cool, think about the gravity of what bush was misinformed about here. It wan't about something small or insigninfcant. He made a momentous decision to use faulty evidence to send troops to war. Now 1700 u.s. troop deaths and hundreds of thousands of iraqi deaths later, bush must be held accountable. I truly believe that he knew that the evidence was shotty at best becasue they were really searching hard for any reason to go to war and any hint of nuclear weapons got the war mongerers ready to go. This war has been an unmitigated disaster. Our generation's vietnam. The writing's on the wall

[Dr. Pepper]

...and hundreds of thousands of iraqi deaths later...

I don't know where this stat came from, but it is false.

[colduser]

Really, now pepper, care to show me otherwise.

[colduser]

I apologize pepper, it's more like 25,000. Still unacceptable no matter how you slice it. www.iraqbodycount.net

[Dr. Pepper]

Actually, considering you made the statement, the burden of proof is on you.

I see you've revised your hyperbole from hundreds of thousands to 25,000. Also, notice how that site counts civilian deaths due to the insurgency as well. Not just the U.S. military. And right now the insurgency is killing hundreds of Iraqis every month. So who is to blame?

[colduser]

and I apologized to you. and there is no "burden" on me pepper. I don't support the president like a blind sheep.

[Dr. Pepper]

Whoever said I support the President? I'm just asking you to prove your wild assertion, which turned out to be incorrect.

[colduser]

Who is to blame for the insurgency? imagine if you will if a country invaded us. I know damn well that I would be out in the streets fighting to the death to protect my country. We invaded iraq, she did not attack us first or anything of the like. the insurgency is so strong over there becasue we busted in and turned everyting upside down. It's really a catch 22. If we didn't invade saddam would continue his evil ways. Or we could invade and put a huge burden on ourselves and create pandimonium all over the country leading to thousands of innocent deaths.

[colduser]

Well, one would infer from your posts that you liked W.

[Dr. Pepper]

But to protect America, would you kill fellow Americans? That is what these so -called resistance fighters are doing. Looks more like mindless murder to me.

I would think you would focus your energy on killing as much of the occupying force as possible, not the people you want to "protect".

[Dr. Pepper]

My view on what is currently happening in Iraq; these people want to create as much instability as possible. They are willing to kill anyone who is complicit with the U.S. especially newly trained security forces. Their goal is to stop the spread of freedom in Iraq, because their radical Islamic faith does not fit in well with democracy. They'd much rather have a stringent dictatorship with them leading it. So they're willing to kill even fellow Iraqis to stop the U.S.

[colduser]

I agree with you here pepper. I would kill the invaders not my countrymen. The insurgency is strong though becasue we disposed of the power in iraq and now all the pieces are being fought over by different factions. the killing of civilians in iraq by the insurgents is murder, plain and simple. However we were the catayst to this situation

[berrywoman]

try? not try succeed. there werent lies, just misinformation during the war




:lol: :lol: this is hilarious!! This is the biggest lie of them all!! hahaha 'misinformed'!!! *slaps knee*

[meena]

thats a good thing, destroying life is wrong.



:lol: :lol: thats hilarious
tell that to mr blair, mr bush, and his administration when they're done bombing innocent people
i suppose in the case of iraq, you'd argue that the end justify the means. i've yet to be convinced of that one.....

Most the people bombed in the war were not innocent, far more of the people we bombed were military people or terrorist. in iraq were going ot end up saving more life, unless the war drags on for too long, but if it ends in the next few years all in all lives will be saved. saddam starved 60,000 and killed tens of thousands more, if he was in power for the 3-4 yrs he would have killed more iraqi's himself. but not only that our president has the right and the duty to do what he must to keep our country safe, if that means taking out dictators who have killed close to a million people and kill tens of thousands more a year and how supports terrorism so be it. When he went to war he had alot of reason too, most of it turned out to be false, teh wmd's was a big mistake but none the less he did what a good president woudl have. not to mention saddam was planning to restart his wmd program after the sanction that would have ended in a few years, so instead of taking him out while he was making wmd's, we took him out before he did. So we would have had to go in in the future and stop his wmd making, sooner or later this war had to happen, Bush sr didnt finish the gulf war and messed up.

WRONG WRONG WRONG. how DARE you say that most people who died in the war were terrorrists what gives you that right? think of the thousands of people who died, simple because they lived in the wrong place at the wrong time, and basically just got in the way of the bombs. think of all the people who were shot because they were scared to death of american soldiers, and wouldn't comply with what they asked them to do because of this. think of all the people who were locked up because they were suspicious, but had done nothing. and the way some american and british soldiers behaved was disgusting, and wrong. i have seen farenheight 9/11, i watch politics programs, and i know that when the war was first declare, the evil that saddam hussein had committed was not the main issue. the issue was oil. the issue also was that we attacked them ILLEGELLY. and only if the worst comes to worst do you counter evil with evil. you explore every possible option first, or at least that is how things should be done. amnesty international are a great example.

[meena]

of how the country should be run.

[MrLick]

No, it was a mistake. but I am not the president. They must be held to higher standards and they still have yet to admit wrong.
Mr.cool, think about the gravity of what bush was misinformed about here. It wan't about something small or insigninfcant. He made a momentous decision to use faulty evidence to send troops to war. Now 1700 u.s. troop deaths and hundreds of thousands of iraqi deaths later, bush must be held accountable. I truly believe that he knew that the evidence was shotty at best becasue they were really searching hard for any reason to go to war and any hint of nuclear weapons got the war mongerers ready to go. This war has been an unmitigated disaster. Our generation's vietnam. The writing's on the wall

It would hurt america more for the president to admit wrong. even with the misinformation i still support the war for the other reasons, they were just as good reasons as wmd's.

this war is nothing like nam, it will only become nam if the left makes it that. I truly believe bush was misinformed and it was not his fault but the fault of many of the worlds top intelligence agencies and they must be held responsible for the bad info.

[MrLick]

Who is to blame for the insurgency? imagine if you will if a country invaded us. I know damn well that I would be out in the streets fighting to the death to protect my country. We invaded iraq, she did not attack us first or anything of the like. the insurgency is so strong over there becasue we busted in and turned everyting upside down. It's really a catch 22. If we didn't invade saddam would continue his evil ways. Or we could invade and put a huge burden on ourselves and create pandimonium all over the country leading to thousands of innocent deaths.

But our country is a very different situation, we dont have a repressive goverment who has killed over a million of us, and who kills tens of thousand a year, we have freedom and our people would be fighting to keep it. the insurgents are a mixed group of evil people who want to just kill american, and many want extreme islamic goverment. they wouldnt be fighting for freedom like us, they are doing the fighting mostly to hurt the u.s.

and as it stands now saddam would have killed far more iraqi's then we didl.

[MrLick]

try? not try succeed. there werent lies, just misinformation during the war




:lol: :lol: this is hilarious!! This is the biggest lie of them all!! hahaha 'misinformed'!!! *slaps knee*

hey, the cia, nsa mi6, israeli, russian, jordanian and i beleive german intelligence agencies all gave bush alot of evidence that showed that saddam had wmd's. as president he believed those MANY agencies, as he should. he has to rely on them to give him intel, its not like he sat in the office and just made this up knowing it was wrong. these "lies" came from america's and many other intelligence agencies. who should be blamed the one tricked or the trickers? he was given false info and acted on it as any president would do. ITS sad people call a lie, when he was given false info.

[MrLick]

laugh4.gif laugh4.gif thats hilarious
tell that to mr blair, mr bush, and his administration when they're done bombing innocent people
i suppose in the case of iraq, you'd argue that the end justify the means. i've yet to be convinced of that one.....[/quote]

umm when saddam would have killed far more iraqi's then we did it justifies it. saddam killing more iraqi's would have been far worse then america killing a few compared to what hewould have. so if all in all less died then would have under saddam.

[berrywoman]

try? not try succeed. there werent lies, just misinformation during the war




:lol: :lol: this is hilarious!! This is the biggest lie of them all!! hahaha 'misinformed'!!! *slaps knee*

hey, the cia, nsa mi6, israeli, russian, jordanian and i beleive german intelligence agencies all gave bush alot of evidence that showed that saddam had wmd's. as president he believed those MANY agencies, as he should. he has to rely on them to give him intel, its not like he sat in the office and just made this up knowing it was wrong. these "lies" came from america's and many other intelligence agencies. who should be blamed the one tricked or the trickers? he was given false info and acted on it as any president would do. ITS sad people call a lie, when he was given false info.



whats even sadder is that you actually believe that to be true... *shakes head* :confused:

[MrLick]

whats sad is people blame bush for the messing up by the cia. when someone messes up and someone else gets the blame, its horrible.

[khanus3]

i have seen farenheight 9/11
want a medal?

i watch politics programs, and i know that when the war was first declare, the evil that saddam hussein had committed was not the main issue. the issue was oil.
Really? Or maybe that's just what Michael Moore has told you. The truth is that our dependency on mideast oil is large, but not as critical as Michael Moore would tell you, surely not enough to go to war over. In fact, we only import around half of the oil we use in the U.S. Furthermore, of the oil we import, most of it doesn't even come from the mideast, it comes from South America! The Iraq War was not about oil!


the issue also was that we attacked them ILLEGELLY.
Illegal where? Who's jurisdiction are we in? If the U.N. is unwilling to enforce its own resolutions, I'm happy that Mr. Bush and Mr. Blair are.


and only if the worst comes to worst do you counter evil with evil. you explore every possible option first, or at least that is how things should be done.
I agree with you, and in my opinion, all other options were exhausted. Saddam would not give U.N. weapons inspectors full cooperation. For a period of time he even expelled them completely. This is not a game, you cannot appease dictators. That's how we ended up with Hitler commanding the Third Reich. So tell me, meena, what would YOU have done when Saddam wouldn't let weapons inspectors in?

By the way, I can respect just about anyone's opinion. But it doesn't help your case when you list your first credential as, " i have seen farenheight 9/11." That doesn't impress me! :P


P.S. - "Bush lied!" "No he didn't!" .....That argument isn't really ever going to stop, as neither side can, at the moment, prove anything.

[Egghead]

oooh politics. :D :idea2:

[MrLick]

"want a medal? "

no i want some of my IQ back, it lowered while watching the b.s.

[Egghead]

bs? what was made up? usually you dont make stuff up in documentaries.
ill admit he skewed the facts (not mentioning britain or spain as members of the coalition), but you're saying the facts were made up?

[khanus3]

i would have to say that skewing the facts of a documentary to make a political point is enough to call it bs.

The Afghan War was over a pipeline? Come on!

[Egghead]

documentaries are never completely objective. everything has a bias. watch a japanese documentary on ww2 and compare to an american one.

[khanus3]

Right, and if those Japanese documentaries claim to be "fact," as Michael Moore claims about his, then I would also say that they are BS.

[MrLick]

bs? what was made up? usually you dont make stuff up in documentaries.
ill admit he skewed the facts (not mentioning britain or spain as members of the coalition), but you're saying the facts were made up?

it was NOT a documentary,

doc·u·men·ta·ry Audio pronunciation of "documentary" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (dky-mnt-r)
adj.

1. Consisting of, concerning, or based on documents.
2. Presenting facts objectively without editorializing or inserting fictional matter, as in a book or film.


most of the "facts" were just opinons and speculation, and many of them were flat out lies, that have been proven to be lies. secondly its very biased it. its no wheres close to a documentary.

http://www.davekopel.com/Terror/Fiftysix-Deceits-in-Fahrenheit-911.htm

too call F911 a documentary is an insult to the word.

[Egghead]

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0361596/


now i remember why arguing with republicans doesnt work. :laugh1:

[MrLick]

so? Its classified as one, but its far from one, like i said it doesnt go with teh definition of documentary. remember it does NOT fit into this

doc·u·men·ta·ry Audio pronunciation of "documentary" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (dky-mnt-r)
adj.

1. Consisting of, concerning, or based on documents.
2. Presenting facts objectively without editorializing or inserting fictional matter, as in a book or film.

[jackie]

it was one, as much as any other. just more contraversial so more people want to find fault with it and say that it's biased and one-sided. while every one of them has an slight bias not everyone of them is as contraversial as this one was so not as critically viewed so alas not as harshly judged.

[MrLick]

Jackie im right your wrong go away.








kidding lol i though documentary's werent sapposed to be biased?

[jackie]

in a perfect world yes ;) but alas we dont' live in one and when someone has a tv camera and is making a film they tend to get antsy and feel the need to get their own opinion across... :/

[berrywoman]

whats sad is people blame bush for the messing up by the cia. when someone messes up and someone else gets the blame, its horrible.



He is the President!! He damn well should take responsiblity.. he is the leader of our country.. and in a sense a global representation of those who live here!!! Damn right its his fault!! He signed on for the job.. now own up.

[berrywoman]

what ever happened to this thread.. it was flourishing so nicely!! :embarrased:

*bumps*

[colduser]

Yes it was. After seeing the Daily show last night that so well layed out how incompetently the bush administration has lied and continues to lie about Iraq, I am even more fed up with this administration than I was before. Not an easy feat.
Just a few weeks ago, Cheney says that the insurgency in Iraq is in the last throes. Now any rational person would immediately know that he is full of shit, as more and more of our soldiers continue to die. Unfuckingbelievable the amount of utter bullshit this administration has gotten away with under the rule of the GOP

[*Justine*]

I heard on tv today, the results of some poll were announced. Sorry I don't remember what network or who conducted this. Anyway, the majority of people did not support what Bush has done with the war, that there ever was a war on Iraq, how he is conducting his business now... and some others. It was apparently the lowest support ever shown for a President.

People obviously find that what he did/is doing as a President is wrong.

[berrywoman]

I heard... (well my friend told me.. i dont know where he saw this either) That Rumsfeld has tried to resign from his place in office like 4x already, and the President doesnt allow him to. :stunned:


I can't wait for his term to be over.. I dont know how we will ever get out of this mess we are in now, but its going to be tough.. and he obviously wasn't the one to do it, in my opinion.

[colduser]

I heard on tv today, the results of some poll were announced. Sorry I don't remember what network or who conducted this. Anyway, the majority of people did not support what Bush has done with the war, that there ever was a war on Iraq, how he is conducting his business now... and some others. It was apparently the lowest support ever shown for a President.

People obviously find that what he did/is doing as a President is wrong.

Exactly Jusitne. The poll is yet another example of how this country will hopefully turn on this clown. He is at an all time low now here in the states. It's about time.

[*Justine*]

Yes, this should of happened before the last election. But then... FOx would of just announced that he won anyway, and everyone else would of just gone with it... oh wait, that did happen.

[colduser]

I heard... (well my friend told me.. i dont know where he saw this either) That Rumsfeld has tried to resign from his place in office like 4x already, and the President doesnt allow him to. :stunned:


I can't wait for his term to be over.. I dont know how we will ever get out of this mess we are in now, but its going to be tough.. and he obviously wasn't the one to do it, in my opinion.

I hear ya Camille. I'm sure RUmmy has tried to resign. He know he has fucked up bad. Bush has no idea who to put in the position if Rummy were to leave. That's probably why he keeps the guy in there.

I've been living in a waking nightmare since Decemeber of 2000 when Dubya was "given" the election by the Supreme Court. I can't wait till 2008. The 2006 senate and congressional elections will be important though to see if the tide is turning.

[colduser]

Yes, this should of happened before the last election. But then... FOx would of just announced that he won anyway, and everyone else would of just gone with it... oh wait, that did happen.


:lol: LMAO.

Fox News and Rupurt Murdoch are two of the greatest evils of my lifetime.

[berrywoman]

evil like this guy?? :wink3:


http://hollywoodcostumesandparty.com/austinpowers/evilgreyb.jpg

[colduser]

:lol: :lol: right on the money Camille

[berrywoman]

:)

[emeryshores]

Yes it was. After seeing the Daily show last night that so well layed out how incompetently the bush administration has lied and continues to lie about Iraq, I am even more fed up with this administration than I was before. Not an easy feat.
Just a few weeks ago, Cheney says that the insurgency in Iraq is in the last throes. Now any rational person would immediately know that he is full of shit, as more and more of our soldiers continue to die. Unfuckingbelievable the amount of utter bullshit this administration has gotten away with under the rule of the GOP

And what was even better was when Jon Stewart recommended Coldplay's new album along with the Foo Fighters tonight on the Daily Show. And then later when delivering a line about bands that suck, he said something along the lines of unlike Coldplay and the Foo Fighters and something like "Hey, I don't give many recommendations." Which I thought was very cool and makes me love Jon Stewart even more.

[*Justine*]

(camille, your pic is not working.)

[MrLick]

a lie and being misinformed are to different things, you can say something false without lying.

[gentleparachute]

a lie and being misinformed are to different things, you can say something false without lying.

Well the person that I have a feeling you are referring too still has to take responsibility for being misinformed... Lie or no lie.

[watermelonc1]

i still love Chris, anyway

+watermelon+

[gentleparachute]

i still love Chris, anyway

+watermelon+

Huh??? :huh:

Who's dissing Chris?

[colduser]

Yes it was. After seeing the Daily show last night that so well layed out how incompetently the bush administration has lied and continues to lie about Iraq, I am even more fed up with this administration than I was before. Not an easy feat.
Just a few weeks ago, Cheney says that the insurgency in Iraq is in the last throes. Now any rational person would immediately know that he is full of shit, as more and more of our soldiers continue to die. Unfuckingbelievable the amount of utter bullshit this administration has gotten away with under the rule of the GOP

And what was even better was when Jon Stewart recommended Coldplay's new album along with the Foo Fighters tonight on the Daily Show. And then later when delivering a line about bands that suck, he said something along the lines of unlike Coldplay and the Foo Fighters and something like "Hey, I don't give many recommendations." Which I thought was very cool and makes me love Jon Stewart even more.


Jon Stewart IS the man. I couldn't make it through the day without my dose of the Daily Show. :)

[colduser]

a lie and being misinformed are to different things, you can say something false without lying.

Keep telling yourself that. I'm sure it makes it easier to swallow the bullshit this adminstration shoves down your throat.

[berrywoman]

(camille, your pic is not working.)

hmm its working for me!! :P

[*Justine*]

evil like this guy?? :wink3:


http://hollywoodcostumesandparty.com/austinpowers/evilgreyb.jpg

That one.

[berrywoman]

can you see him now...

[MrLick]

a lie and being misinformed are to different things, you can say something false without lying.

Keep telling yourself that. I'm sure it makes it easier to swallow the bullshit this adminstration shoves down your throat.

shoves? they shove nothing down anyones throat, people chose to accept or disapprove of what they say and do, their is no "shoving" down people throats.

[colduser]

I was just commenting on your attempt to justify the outright corruption that this administration is guilty of. You gladly accept whatever they say as gospel and don't even try to see that MAYBE they are full of shit.

[*Justine*]

I can see him now Camille.

[berrywoman]

a lie and being misinformed are to different things, you can say something false without lying.

Keep telling yourself that. I'm sure it makes it easier to swallow the bullshit this adminstration shoves down your throat.

shoves? they shove nothing down anyones throat, people chose to accept or disapprove of what they say and do, their is no "shoving" down people throats.



tell us why you believe him?? What has made you feel this way.. and it will all come back to Right Winged propaganda.... that was shoved down your throat. lol

[MrLick]

because the left wing propaganda didnt work on me, and I agree with bush and many of his policies, nothing was shoved down my throat. no one makes me listen to the propaganda, i accepted it. ive done my research and chose to side with bush do to my morals, and other political reasons.it no more shoved down my throat then, the left wing propaganda was.

[berrywoman]

because the left wing propaganda didnt work on me, and I agree with bush and many of his policies, nothing was shoved down my throat. no one makes me listen to the propaganda, i accepted it. ive done my research and chose to side with bush do to my morals, and other political reasons.it no more shoved down my throat then, the left wing propaganda was.



fair enough... but you have to admit.. the right propaganda is far more outreageous than that of the left. I am not saying I agree 100% with the left... politics in general (all of it) is corrupt... NO ONE is 'for the people'...

[colduser]

because the left wing propaganda didnt work on me, and I agree with bush and many of his policies, nothing was shoved down my throat. no one makes me listen to the propaganda, i accepted it. ive done my research and chose to side with bush do to my morals, and other political reasons.it no more shoved down my throat then, the left wing propaganda was.



fair enough... but you have to admit.. the right propaganda is far more outreageous than that of the left. I am not saying I agree 100% with the left... politics in general (all of it) is corrupt... NO ONE is 'for the people'...


Agreed Camille.
And mr.cool, I find it sad really that you choose to side with the president based on moral issues. That is not the reason to elect someone president. I know however that your family brought you up to be a good little GOP boy, so I know why you have YET to SEE the LIGHT :sneaky:
With college, you will meet more open-minded people and break out of your sheltered shell of right wing propaganda.

[mc_squared]

What's "GOP"??

[MrLick]

I have to disagree, mostly the left propaganda is worse and more childish. from what ive seen. Both sides are corrupt but from what ive seen the right is less. But things change and in the next few years who knows, one side may become really bad, hell i might even become a democrat someday if something like that happens.

[MrLick]

because the left wing propaganda didnt work on me, and I agree with bush and many of his policies, nothing was shoved down my throat. no one makes me listen to the propaganda, i accepted it. ive done my research and chose to side with bush do to my morals, and other political reasons.it no more shoved down my throat then, the left wing propaganda was.



fair enough... but you have to admit.. the right propaganda is far more outreageous than that of the left. I am not saying I agree 100% with the left... politics in general (all of it) is corrupt... NO ONE is 'for the people'...


Agreed Camille.
And mr.cool, I find it sad really that you choose to side with the president based on moral issues. That is not the reason to elect someone president. I know however that your family brought you up to be a good little GOP boy, so I know why you have YET to SEE the LIGHT :sneaky:
With college, you will meet more open-minded people and break out of your sheltered shell of right wing propaganda.

oh brother dont start that, i wasnt brought up in a good little GOP family, i made my own decision. Ive seen the light and as of right now the republican party and Bush are more moral then most democrats. unless the republican party changes alot I will never stop supporting them, college wont change my mind, if anything it will reinforce my beliefs.

[colduser]

You lose credibility when you say that the liberals are more childish etc. with their propganda. Your party is in CONTROL of EVERYTHING here. And to base your liking of a prez on moral issues is ignorant to me. As is still thinking bushy is totally above reproach. Good god man, have you even taken any credence from my signature. Bush has fucked up,more than any president of the modern era and you praise him as some kind of stand up guy instead of the obvious FOOL that he is.
Oh and Mark, GOP stands for Grand Old Party-Republicans

[MrLick]

my party is in control of the effing air ways, the left has t.v. except for fox news. we have to put up with the liberal stations on t.v.

Bush not above reproach, no man is.

i read your sig, but it doesnt speak to me, I never said their should be no criticism of a president, i dont blindly stand by our president, i stand by bush, but i didnt for clinton. Bush is less of a fool then kerry was, so i chose the lesser of 2 fools.

I believe we shouldnt blindly stand by any president, and all president must be criticized.


"And to base your liking of a prez on moral issues is ignorant to me"

and saying that is ignorant to me. I support bush based on my views of the world and my morals, He's not an immoral man and not evil, He's a fellow christian, who I agree on with many issues, not all but many. His party is better to christians then the democratic party, i agree with the his way of fighting terrorism, but i dont agree on the gay marriage issues, on one hand I think its immoral to be gay, but the goverment shouldnt tell people who they can and cant marry.

[mc_squared]

Oh and Mark, GOP stands for Grand Old Party-Republicans

Thanx!! But couldn't it also stand for "God Obsessed Pillocks"?? :P

[berrywoman]

:lol: :stunned:

[MrLick]

HA HA HA

he he he

ha ha

[berrywoman]

:angry: :P

[mc_squared]

HA HA HA

he he he

ha ha

Are YOU David Bowie's "Laughing Gnome" that he used to sing about?? :P

[MrLick]

I have NO clue what your talking about. lol

[mc_squared]

Well anyway - you forgot the line "I'm a laughing gnome and you can't catch me". :P

[berrywoman]

I have NO clue what your talking about. lol


no one ever does.. so dont feel bad!! lol he rambles...

[mc_squared]

I have NO clue what your talking about. lol

For some reason, I don't believe you!! :P

[MrLick]

lol no no no, im serious, i have no clue.

[colduser]

Oh and Mark, GOP stands for Grand Old Party-Republicans

Thanx!! But couldn't it also stand for "God Obsessed Pillocks"?? :P


To a degree, but not all are that way :lol:

[mc_squared]

lol no no no, im serious, i have no clue.

In that case, I suggest you check out "David Bowie's Greatest Hits" immediately!! :P

[mc_squared]

Oh and Mark, GOP stands for Grand Old Party-Republicans

Thanx!! But couldn't it also stand for "God Obsessed Pillocks"?? :P


To a degree, but not all are that way :lol:

Well THAT'S a relief!! There is SOME hope for the world, then?? :D

[colduser]

my party is in control of the effing air ways, the left has t.v. except for fox news. we have to put up with the liberal stations on t.v.

Bush not above reproach, no man is.

i read your sig, but it doesnt speak to me, I never said their should be no criticism of a president, i dont blindly stand by our president, i stand by bush, but i didnt for clinton. Bush is less of a fool then kerry was, so i chose the lesser of 2 fools.

I believe we shouldnt blindly stand by any president, and all president must be criticized.


"And to base your liking of a prez on moral issues is ignorant to me"

and saying that is ignorant to me. I support bush based on my views of the world and my morals, He's not an immoral man and not evil, He's a fellow christian, who I agree on with many issues, not all but many. His party is better to christians then the democratic party, i agree with the his way of fighting terrorism, but i dont agree on the gay marriage issues, on one hand I think its immoral to be gay, but the goverment shouldnt tell people who they can and cant marry.


Dude, I'm so sick of every right winger saying the media is biased. If that were the case, we never would have fought this illegal war in Iraq. The media would have stood up and called bushy's bluff and we wouldn't be in a quagmire now. ALL of the major media sources in this country are now Fox News "light" so that they can try and get some of the ratings from that supposesdly "fair and balanced" piece of shit cable news network.

Now as for bushy and morals etc. Did you know that he put more inmates to death in Texas than any other governor there. Isn't it in the 10 commandments that you are not to kill another person. How he sleeps at night knowing that he has sent hundreds of our troops, and thousands of Iraqi's to their deaths is beyond me. There is nothing christian about killing people mr.cool. This is why I see you as a hypocrite and why bush is not a "moral" man.
But I suppose in your world, it's worse for a man to get his dick sucked and lie about it than to say......hmmmmmm.... BLATANTLY LIE ABOUT REASONS TO GO TO WAR!!

Oh, and by the way, I've never seen you criticize the prez :huh:

[mc_squared]

Yeah - as far as Clinton was concerned, I could never see what all the fuss was about. As far as I could see, it was a matter between him and his wife, and nobody else.
It was nothing to do with his performance as president.
I have a lot more respect for Bill than I ever will have for Dubya.
The fact that Clinton is now accepted worldwide as a "goodwill" ambassador must tell you something - a lot of people liked him.
I doubt very much that Dubya will be afforded the same courtesy when HIS tenure ends!! :D

[colduser]

The fact that Clinton is now accepted worldwide as a "goodwill" ambassador must tell you something - a lot of people liked him.
I doubt very much that Dubya will be afforded the same courtesy when HIS tenure ends!! :D

So true, so true. This IS a great point.

[mc_squared]

And everytime Bill is interviewed on TV he comes across as very down-to-earth and approachable. And he isn't afraid to admit he made some mistakes.
One time I remember he was on a golf course somewhere in the U.K. and came across a bride and groom having their photos taken.
Instead of just ignoring them and going on his way he stopped to have his photo taken with them.
What great wedding photos THEY must have!! :)

[colduser]

Bill was the ultimate in "slick". He was one of the most charismatic presidents ever. He just had a natural vibe about him that made you want to listen to him. I miss him. :(

[*Justine*]

And he knew how to play a saxophone, which makes him cool right there. :P

[colduser]

Oh yeah. I forgot about that :lol:

[mc_squared]

He definitely had/has a lot of charm and charisma. And most of the people who went after him were almost certainly hypocrites anyway. Wouldn't you just love to know what THEY were getting up to behind closed doors/closets??

[colduser]

He definitely had/has a lot of charm and charisma. And most of the people who went after him were almost certainly hypocrites anyway. Wouldn't you just love to know what THEY were getting up to behind closed doors/closets??

:lol: Mark, it's like you're reading my mind.....scary :/ :lol: That's why I can't stand this administration. They ARE the biggest bunch of hypocrites I have ever seen. They say not to attack bushy yet that's ALL they did during Clinton's 8 years. They IMPEACHED Clinton while bushy has committed a much greater crime but will go on unchallenged.

[mc_squared]

Mark, it's like you're reading my mind.....scary That's why I can't stand this administration. They ARE the biggest bunch of hypocrites I have ever seen. They say not to attack bushy yet that's ALL they did during Clinton's 8 years. They IMPEACHED Clinton while bushy has committed a much greater crime but will go on unchallenged.


*More's the pity!! :)
And don't forget, you might still get the "Governator" in a few years if his supporters get their way!! :P

[colduser]

If we get the Governator. I AM moving to Canada :lol:

[mc_squared]

If you do, let me know - you might be able to get me in!! :lol:

[colduser]

I'll keep you posted :sneaky: :lol:

[mc_squared]

Maybe Hilary will come to your aid!!

[colduser]

Not a good idea. America IS NOT ready for a female president yet, athough they would probably do a better job than the males ;)

[MrLick]

Maybe Hilary will come to your aid!!

may god help america if hilary is elected.

she wont be though, their are too many women haters in america for that to happen. alot of democrats wouldnt vote for her because she's a women.

[mc_squared]

Then it looks like there's nothing to stop the Governator. So be afraid, be VERY afraid!! :P

[MrLick]

I dont like arnold, he annoys me, and is a sucky politician.

[mc_squared]

Hasta La Vista, maybe??

[berrywoman]

*bumps*


so I've decided to move this thread now to the 'Everything Else' forum.. because I want to promote healthy discussions on politics here.. I really enjoyed the points and posts made thus far.. and its good to see young adults (17-22yr olds) aware of the issues brought on today by our politicians, from the State of our government to world politics.

So... here's to opening your mind, (or not) lol and here's to HEALTHY discussion..... *raises glass*

well.. go on.... discuss... :cool:

[MrLick]

hahaha everytime i think this thread is over and done with, it get revived lol. oh well, i dont care! its interesting.